My draft thoughts....

[Stash]

How is drafting the best player available to us at our pick wasting our best pick asset in years? To me, it's using it wisely. Common sense.

When you're paying more money than what you could have had a proven free agent for and giving up the best asset you've had in years? There's no way to call that move smart.

You're using Doug Free's salary in two years as an argument against drafting the best player available now. How in the world does that make sense?

Free's salary is $6.5 next year. You either pay it, or make a change.

Who ever said he was the "best player available"? That's fan think,

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

I just think there's more hype than substance when it comes to Ramsey. If he wore a UConn helmet, he'd be a mid to late first round prospect

Nope.

There is almost no hype and he is sliding under the radar. Simply a difference maker.

Not just Defensively but Overall the best skill position player and the biggest impact player in the Draft.

 

[Gaede]

When you're paying more money than what you could have had a proven free agent for and giving up the best asset you've had in years? There's no way to call that move smart.



Free's salary is $6.5 next year. You either pay it, or make a change.

Who ever said he was the "best player available"? That's fan think,

OK. You can only draft who's available. We can't go back and change who we signed or didn't sign in free agency.

Yes, I think Elliot will be the BPA. And yes I am a fan. Everything posted in the history of this forum is fan-think. Including your desperation to ensure we're prepared for Doug Free's departure, of all things. 'Hey don't draft that playmaker there, we need to be prepared for when Gavin Escobar leaves in free agency next year!' Seriously! What's more important? Making plays, scoring touchdowns and controlling the clock--or making sure we're prepared that we don't overpay Doug friggin Free of all people an extra couple million a year?

Again, I'm not getting the Free argument. We just burned a 3rd rd pick last year to replace him, did we not? We are talking about Free in relation to this year? He's a RT. If we had to replace him tomorrow, we could kick either of our guards out there and they'd probably be better than him, and cheaper. How in any way does Free's salary affect the number 4 pick? What in the heck does he have to do with competing next year?

 

[Manwiththeplan]

There is almost no hype and he is sliding under the radar. Simply a difference maker.

Whether you like Ramsey or not, I don't see how one can say this. How many prospects in this draft had a sports science done on them? Byron Jones literally posted the same work out numbers and was more productive, and wasn't mentioned at all compared to Ramsey.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Whether you like Ramsey or not, I don't see how one can say this. How many prospects in this draft had a sports science done on them? Byron Jones literally posted the same work out numbers and was more productive, and wasn't mentioned at all compared to Ramsey.

Ramsey is better at everything. Don't fall for the non-hype. Jalen is simply impact personified.

just WATCH

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Ramsey is better at everything. Don't fall for the non-hype.

...Byron Jones posted better numbers in nearly every drill and forced more turnovers by quite a bit, so Ramsey is not better at everything. May prove to be better, but it's just incorrect to say he's better at everything

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

...Byron Jones posted better numbers in nearly every drill and forced more turnovers by quite a bit, so Ramsey is not better at everything. May prove to be better, but it's just incorrect to say he's better at everything

He's head and shoulders better at everything Football.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

He's head and shoulders better at everything Football.

forcing turnovers aren't football?

 

[percyhoward]

forcing turnovers aren't football?

Of course it are.

 

[Stash]

OK. You can only draft who's available. We can't go back and change who we signed or didn't sign in free agency.

But you can follow up one obvious mistake by making another one. Showing everyone that you made it.

Yes, I think Elliot will be the BPA. And yes I am a fan. Everything posted in the history of this forum is fan-think. Including your desperation to ensure we're prepared for Doug Free's departure, of all things. 'Hey don't draft that playmaker there, we need to be prepared for when Gavin Escobar leaves in free agency next year!' Seriously! What's more important? Making plays, scoring touchdowns and controlling the clock--or making sure we're prepared that we don't overpay Doug friggin Free of all people an extra couple million a year?

Yeah, because the best line in football, the one that made Demarco Murray the NFL's leading rusher and brought Darren McFadden back from the dead can't function without "Ezekiel fricken' Elliott!" No other running back before or since could ever do! Waaahhhh!!!!!

Again, I'm not getting the Free argument. We just burned a 3rd rd pick last year to replace him, did we not? We are talking about Free in relation to this year? He's a RT. If we had to replace him tomorrow, we could kick either of our guards out there and they'd probably be better than him, and cheaper. How in any way does Free's salary affect the number 4 pick? What in the heck does he have to do with competing next year?

And we just signed Alfred Morris in free agency at running back, paying him several million dollars too.

Think a little bit harder on the subject and maybe it'll come to you, if you can tear yourself away from staring at that 'Zeke!' Poster on your wall long enough.

I also love the ignorance of thinking that you can just "kick" one of the guards over there. Yeah, just mix and match, play them anywhere. Let them change it up from play to play so they don't get bored. Musical chairs. After all, they're only offensive linemen...

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Yeah, because the best line in football, the one that made Demarco Murray the NFL's leading rusher and brought Darren McFadden back from the dead can't function without "Ezekiel fricken' Elliott!" No other running back before or since could ever do! Waaahhhh!!!!!

Using this logic, one would have to ask, if this o-line can apparently make an average at best RB in Demarco Murray an 1800 yard back and can bring McFadden back from the dead, why would you spend the #4 pick on a RT?

 

[Gaede]

But you can follow up one obvious mistake by making another one. Showing everyone that you made it.



Yeah, because the best line in football, the one that made Demarco Murray the NFL's leading rusher and brought Darren McFadden back from the dead can't function without "Ezekiel fricken' Elliott!" No other running back before or since could ever do! Waaahhhh!!!!!



And we just signed Alfred Morris in free agency at running back, paying him several million dollars too.

Think a little bit harder on the subject and maybe it'll come to you, if you can tear yourself away from staring at that 'Zeke!' Poster on your wall long enough.

I also love the ignorance of thinking that you can just "kick" one of the guards over there. Yeah, just mix and match, play them anywhere. Let them change it up from play to play so they don't get bored. Musical chairs. After all, they're only offensive linemen...

Collins and Martin both played tackle in college, and were much higher rated prospects at that position than Free was. I've no doubt either of those guys could step in at RT and do what Free does.

I understand that you invested money in Morris and McFadden, but who cares? Do ppl care that we have Scandrick, Claiborne, Jones, Wilcox and Carr in the secondary, and have a ton of $ invested in them, and that should prevent us from drafting Ramsey? No, obviously not, because Ramsey is a superior player. Same goes for Bosa. Is it a problem that we've already used two second round picks on the position he plays? No, because he'd be an improvement. Who cares what we've done before, or didn't do before. If the opportunity to significantly improve your team presents itself, you should take it. Not taking those opportunities is how we end up with Gavin Escobar in the second round. You can get too cute and try to fill all of your holes for the next few years and account for expiring contracts and all that, or you can take the best guy at your pick, even if that eschews conventional wisdom.


And yes, our line is so good that it can make anyone a star. See Randle, Joseph. Yeah, he's a headcase. That was already known to the team, and they took a shot on him anyways because of that 'our OL makes RBs' myth. To me, going into the season with two guys who've been injury prone their entire careers, including last year, and a guy whose shown next to nothing in two years, is akin to going into a new season with Joseph friggin Randle as your starting RB because of your misplaced belief in our all-powerful OL

 

[Stash]

Using this logic, one would have to ask, if this o-line can apparently make an average at best RB in Demarco Murray an 1800 yard back and can bring McFadden back from the dead, why would you spend the #4 pick on a RT?

Only because he's the top prospect in the draft who can be inserted into the weakest position on that line.

Free's situation is well established.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Using this logic, one would have to ask, if this o-line can apparently make an average at best RB in Demarco Murray an 1800 yard back and can bring McFadden back from the dead, why would you spend the #4 pick on a RT?

That's a good question and I'm not 100% certain you should but there's merit and here's why...

1. Just in career value alone a good to very good OT is going to be around longer than a good to very good RB. Do you want to have to drop a 1st round pick on another RB every 4-5 years?
2. The possibility of injury is so much greater now for a back than it is an OT. Yes offensive tackles do get injured but take a look at the list of backs that missed time last year due to injury... And you can start with Murray– Bell, Forsett, Charles, McCoy, Lacy, Foster, Lynch, Forte, Ellington, Hyde, Rawls, Yeldon, Spiller, Bush... And there are others. The present concussion protocol is going to keep backs from playing 16 games. OT's? Not so much.
3. Even if you drafted a RB #4 are you going to get full value out of him? History is unkind to backs that get 300+ carries for more than a couple seasons. If you're going to drop a #4 pick on a back to give him 250 carries is that good use of resources when you can get a 1,000 snaps out of an OT?
4. Replacement value... There should be no argument that replacing a good to very-good OT is more difficult than replacing a good to very-good running back.
5. Current value in relation to salary. A rookie running back coming in is going to get $24 mil in salary over the next 4 years, which already makes him one of the highest paid at the position. A rookie OT coming in is going to be getting the same money, which makes him a much better value in relation to the paychecks received by good OT's throughout the league.

Again, not saying OT is the way to go, but there's merit in at least considering it.

 

[heartofachampion]

we have mcfadden and morris dunbar for passing not sure we need elliot if we didnt mess up last season by waiting to draft david johnson or made a better push to secure rawls in the 7th inistead od tradinbg up to pick te swain this wouldnt be a debate lol.Id be fine with waiting on drafing a rb dixon or lasco.At wr done with devin street we got dez and butler beasley in slot and williams comes in for the 4th also whitehead can add a mike williams in the 6th or garrett in the 5th sharpe in 7th.Te got witten,hanna,escobar when healthy and swain we shall see but adding r gathers late could be good.At qb romo,moore and adding hogan in 4th or fifth rd he was top 10 in accuracy and hes a leader.O line got free,collins,martin,fredrick,smith with leary,looney,brown chaz green we shall see.Id add joe thuney or joe haeg in the 6th or spencer drango in the 7th for depth.At dline u have thorton and crawford with mclain j crawford and wait and see whaley at dt so id add nkemdiche in the 2nd for sure if hes there compares to donald or add hargrave,ridgeway or ward in the 3rd,m collins in the 4th or latham in the 7th.DE GREGORY AND LAWRENCE WILL MISS 1ST 4 games im losing faith in gregory quickly.So we have riving and mayowa along with russell and j crawford for the time being so id add spence mid 1st or 2nd round,judon ,blair,ngakoue in the 4th rd,cowser in rd 5,t holmes,ochi in rd 6,mcccallister rd 7.at lb got mcclian,lee hitchens with wilson,wilber,gachkar,nzeocha good depth here maybe add j brown in the 5th pass rushing lb or a morrison in the 7th if mcclain has issues this year.Also if j smith fallls to the 4th id take a flier on him for next season.At cb claiborn,scandrick,carr with olatoye and mitchell as backups not bad id car and claiborne continue to dissapoint id consider adding k russell in the 4th,d harris cb texas am ,worley,k reed in the 6rd.At safety we have jones and church with heath and wilcox i would add depth here not a fan of church so id make adding j simmons in the 3rd a priority,or k byard,m kilebrew in the 4th.In closing not a bad team if we draft right and avoid injuries add some undraftefd fa to our team become practice squad guys m jordan qb one of my favs.

1 elliot
2 spence or Robert Nkemdiche, DT, Ole Miss:
3 Justin Simmons S
4 Matt Judon, DE/OLB, Grand Valley State
4 k hogan qb
6 Tyrone Holmes, DE, Montana
6 Mike Thomas wr
6 d Harris cb
6 r gathers te baylor
extra picks 2 Robert Nkemdiche, DT, Ole Miss: 3. Javon Hargrave, DT, South Carolina State Boston College *KeiVarae Russell cb Hassan Ridgeway, DT, Texas Jihad Ward, DL, Illinois 4 Ronald Blair, DE, Appalachian State Yannick Ngakoue, DE/OLB, Maryland garrett wr Kevin Byard, S, Middle Tennessee Maliek Collins, DT, Nebraska Jaylon Smith, LB, Notre Dame Maurice Canady, CB, Virginia Miles Killebrew, S, Southern Utah Daniel Lasco, RB, California Paul Perkins, RB, UCLA 5 James Cowser, DE, Southern Utah Keyarris Garrett, WR, Tulsa Jatavis Brown, LB, Akron 6 Joe Thuney, OL, N.C. State Joe Haeg, OT, North Dakota State Victor Ochi, DE, Stony Brook Daryl Worley, CB, West Virginia Kalan Reed, CB, Southern Miss 7 Darius Latham, DT, Indiana Alex McCalister, DE/OLB, Florida Tajae Sharpe, WR, Massachusetts Antonio Morrison, LB, Florida Spencer Drango, OL, Baylor

 

[Stash]

Collins and Martin both played tackle in college, and were much higher rated prospects at that position than Free was. I've no doubt either of those guys could step in at RT and do what Free does.

Obviously the team does. Even when Free was missing time after surgery, they decided against putting either of them at the right tackle position. Instead, we dealt with Darrion Weems, despite the fact that he played poorly.

I understand that you invested money in Morris and McFadden, but who cares?

Anybody paying attention to the big picture in the NFL, beyond Madden football.

Do ppl care that we have Scandrick, Claiborne, Jones, Wilcox and Carr in the secondary, and have a ton of $ invested in them, and that should prevent us from drafting Ramsey? No, obviously not, because Ramsey is a superior player. Same goes for Bosa. Is it a problem that we've already used two second round picks on the position he plays? No, because he'd be an improvement. Who cares what we've done before, or didn't do before. If the opportunity to significantly improve your team presents itself, you should take it. Not taking those opportunities is how we end up with Gavin Escobar in the second round. You can get too cute and try to fill all of your holes for the next few years and account for expiring contracts and all that, or you can take the best guy at your pick, even if that eschews conventional wisdom.

You're right. Take the draft's top prospect Laremy Tunsil.

And yes, our line is so good that it can make anyone a star. See Randle, Joseph. Yeah, he's a headcase. That was already known to the team, and they took a shot on him anyways because of that 'our OL makes RBs' myth.

Enlighten us to what the offensive line had to possibly do with Randle being a head case? Now you're just spit-balling and pulling things out of your *** in desperation.

To me, going into the season with two guys who've been injury prone their entire careers, including last year, and a guy whose shown next to nothing in two years, is akin to going into a new season with Joseph friggin Randle as your starting RB because of your misplaced belief in our all-powerful OL

Then it's obvious you're reaching and attempting to distort reality in a vain attempt to convince yourself or anybody else that this move makes sense. I sincerely hope that the team isn't dumb enough to think that way.

 

[Stash]

That's a good question and I'm not 100% certain you should but there's merit and here's why...

1. Just in career value alone a good to very good OT is going to be around longer than a good to very good RB. Do you want to have to drop a 1st round pick on another RB every 4-5 years?
2. The possibility of injury is so much greater now for a back than it is an OT. Yes offensive tackles do get injured but take a look at the list of backs that missed time last year due to injury... And you can start with Murray– Bell, Forsett, Charles, McCoy, Lacy, Foster, Lynch, Forte, Ellington, Hyde, Rawls, Yeldon, Spiller, Bush... And there are others. The present concussion protocol is going to keep backs from playing 16 games. OT's? Not so much.
3. Even if you drafted a RB #4 are you going to get full value out of him? History is unkind to backs that get 300+ carries for more than a couple seasons. If you're going to drop a #4 pick on a back to give him 250 carries is that good use of resources when you can get a 1,000 snaps out of an OT?
4. Replacement value... There should be no argument that replacing a good to very-good OT is more difficult than replacing a good to very-good running back.
5. Current value in relation to salary. A rookie running back coming in is going to get $24 mil in salary over the next 4 years, which already makes him one of the highest paid at the position. A rookie OT coming in is going to be getting the same money, which makes him a much better value in relation to the paychecks received by good OT's throughout the league.

Again, not saying OT is the way to go, but there's merit in at least considering it.

Good luck getting any acknowledgement of the excellent points you've made here.

Like talking to the wall...

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Good luck getting any acknowledgement of the excellent points you've made here.

Like talking to the wall...

Agreed.

Anyone hawking a running back at #4 isn't looking at the big picture.

 

[CATCH17]

Doesn't matter Ramsey is way better then 19th overall. .....that's my point

Plus he's way better than any pass rusher in this draft.


Ramsey is no worse than top 3 excluding the QBs even though he's better than them right now as well.


We need pass rush guys but there isn't a guy that sticks out like Ramsey does for DBs.

Also, DBs get paid so drafting Ramsey could help us sign a big name FA DL eventually.

 

[Gaede]

Obviously the team does. Even when Free was missing time after surgery, they decided against putting either of them at the right tackle position. Instead, we dealt with Darrion Weems, despite the fact that he played poorly.



Anybody paying attention to the big picture in the NFL, beyond Madden football.



You're right. Take the draft's top prospect Laremy Tunsil.



Enlighten us to what the offensive line had to possibly do with Randle being a head case? Now you're just spit-balling and pulling things out of your *** in desperation.



Then it's obvious you're reaching and attempting to distort reality in a vain attempt to convince yourself or anybody else that this move makes sense. I sincerely hope that the team isn't dumb enough to think that way.

The ol had nothing to do with Randle being a head case. I am using him as an example of putting too much faith in our OL, and ignoring obvious red flags with your current running backs. That blew up in our face last year and I'd rather not repeat that mistake

All of a sudden, ppl are acting like McFadden is mr.reliable or Morris is quality depth or Dunabr is actually going to play a whole season, when they have proven the exact opposite in their careers. But our OL will make them less injury prone or mediocre, right?

Who is distorting reality? The one who steadfastly believes in McFaddens durability or the one who wants to draft someone a)better b)younger c)less injury prone?


Didn't I say I am ok with drafting Tunsi in my first post? Pretty sure I did