My eye test on Trey and what he brings that Dak doesn't

[erod]

I know, I know, another Trey Lance thread, but hear me out. I spent an hour looking over his play from his rookie season to current pre season action and I came away with a few things that separate him from Dak. Of course Dak is more advanced at this point but I saw a few things that Trey had that Dak lacks..

#1. His ability to naturally step up in pocket instinctively to avoid the edge rushers and make positive plays either with his arm or feet. This is something that Dak is horrible at in my opinion and it's an exercise in frustration for me to watch.

#2. His release is much much quicker and his arm is way stronger. Yes, I know, he has a wonky side arm release that needs work but at times this funky mechanic gets the ball around edge rushers for positive plays so I will leave that up your eyes on that one..

I've always been a Dak fan, and not under some false pretentious that Lance is going to take Dak's job but I seriously see some very good intangibles with this young man and can see why we traded for him... If Fat Mike's Qb school can iron out some of these wrinkles we very well might have a nice starting QB in a few years for the cost of a 4th rounder.

Right now, Lance literally doesn't have any ability to do anything at the pro level. Nowhere close to Dak or even Cooper Rush.

He's awful.

He needs at least a year, if not 3 or 4, to be ready for this. He's barely played football in his life.

But I'm fine with the risk with just a 4th round pick. He's a quarterback, and that position really matters.

 

[aikemirv]

Interesting scouting report on Lance -

https://assets-global.website-files...4cb496c990756013053c3_CFM21_QB_Lance_Trey.pdf

 

[Whirlwin]

See, I told you that folks would be calling for Lance because they think he’s better than Dak. Just wait until the first bad series.

I agree, is this Why are you putting Trey Lance don’n calling it a bad trade. One should have nothing to do with the other.

 

[TwoDeep3]

I know, I know, another Trey Lance thread, but hear me out. I spent an hour looking over his play from his rookie season to current pre season action and I came away with a few things that separate him from Dak. Of course Dak is more advanced at this point but I saw a few things that Trey had that Dak lacks..

#1. His ability to naturally step up in pocket instinctively to avoid the edge rushers and make positive plays either with his arm or feet. This is something that Dak is horrible at in my opinion and it's an exercise in frustration for me to watch.

#2. His release is much much quicker and his arm is way stronger. Yes, I know, he has a wonky side arm release that needs work but at times this funky mechanic gets the ball around edge rushers for positive plays so I will leave that up your eyes on that one..

I've always been a Dak fan, and not under some false pretentious that Lance is going to take Dak's job but I seriously see some very good intangibles with this young man and can see why we traded for him... If Fat Mike's Qb school can iron out some of these wrinkles we very well might have a nice starting QB in a few years for the cost of a 4th rounder.

After spending minutes reading your OP, this is what I gained from it.

1. Playing for the 9ers is a completely different set of circumstances and their offensive line may be able to contain the rush from collapsing the pocket. Thus your analysis on comparing a seven year vet and a two year "rookie," - going into his third season in 2023 - who could not supplant Brock Purdy, has a sizeable flaw. The problem with the Dallas line is allowing an interior rush to cave the protection and it prevents Dak from stepping up.

2. All of pro football works on the mechanics of the QB's entire body when throwing the ball. While you see Mahomes sidearm when in trouble, and perhaps a few more, that style has been discouraged since leather helmets. You see these types of throws when there is nothing else to be done. And outside of Mahomes, they are far too risky. To quote you, " Yes, I know, he has a wonky side arm release that needs work but at times this funky mechanic gets the ball around edge rushers for positive plays." Since there is such a small sample size for Lance, what happens when he suffers the rush and sidearms around the edge rusher blindly into traffic?

3. To further quote you, " If Fat Mike's Qb school can iron out some of these wrinkles we very well might have a nice starting QB in a few years for the cost of a 4th rounder." Refer to my comment above about throwing mechanics and take a guess what "Fat," Mike will do in his tutelage of Lance. He will dissuade the two year going on three year rookie to not sidearm.

Jerry Jones watched Hurts and went home and dreamed about having a mobile QB, which allows the receivers to run off the defense, thus the QB races for large chunks of yardage. It appears, and I am only taking this from comments here and perhaps some mediot type sources, which are not sources at all, that Jones pulled the trigger on this trade without McClay putting Jerry's training wheels back on.

I have to wonder, if the running back position has no real value, then making the QB a some times running back discounts the QB position exactly how much? How will running the ball and getting hit by defenders shorten a QB's career? And since Trey Lance will be coming up for a contract extension, presumably in two seasons, how much will a team need to pay him to - again your words - "we very well might have a nice starting QB in a few years for the cost of a 4th rounder."

How much will that nice starting QB for a fourth cost once he negotiates for a second contract. Because the nano-second one uses starting as a descriptor for what amounts to a gadget QB at this point, there will be an agent ready, willing, and able to bend Jerry over a table for what amounts to an unknown who, at this point offered nothing as proof he is more than potential.

And potential wreaks of potential failure.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

Excellent OP post. There's no reason not to be excited about this trade whether you are a Dak fan or not.

One thing we can all agree on is Dak has now missed time due to injuries three years in a row. And while I appreciate the job Cooper Rush did last year I'm not convinced the Cowboys would have kept winning with the offense producing at the level it did when he started.

Enter Trey Lance.

 

[khiladi]

I know, I know, another Trey Lance thread, but hear me out. I spent an hour looking over his play from his rookie season to current pre season action and I came away with a few things that separate him from Dak. Of course Dak is more advanced at this point but I saw a few things that Trey had that Dak lacks..

#1. His ability to naturally step up in pocket instinctively to avoid the edge rushers and make positive plays either with his arm or feet. This is something that Dak is horrible at in my opinion and it's an exercise in frustration for me to watch.

#2. His release is much much quicker and his arm is way stronger. Yes, I know, he has a wonky side arm release that needs work but at times this funky mechanic gets the ball around edge rushers for positive plays so I will leave that up your eyes on that one..

I've always been a Dak fan, and not under some false pretentious that Lance is going to take Dak's job but I seriously see some very good intangibles with this young man and can see why we traded for him... If Fat Mike's Qb school can iron out some of these wrinkles we very well might have a nice starting QB in a few years for the cost of a 4th rounder.

Word on the street is his short to intermediate passing game needs work, not his ability to throw downfield. His decision making is questionable, but he hasn't acquired enough experience in that department to make a judgment.

His mechanics are fluidity are better than Dak's, that's for sure... Dak's mechanics are average...

 

[khiladi]

I love this Dak played differently after the ankle injury. Did yiou guys not witness 2017 and 2018, without Amari? Or 2019 when he had one of the worst stretches in football in terms of QB play? Or the 7 TOs he had, including INTs and fumbles before he broke his leg in 5 games? You all are hilarious with the excuses. Dak has been doing Dak since he came into this league...

 

[Rockport]

I agree, is this Why are you putting Trey Lance don’n calling it a bad trade. One should have nothing to do with the other.

Just turn on the TV and watch these talking head idiots talking about how screwed up of a mistake Jerry made and how Dak is on borrowed time. I’m not worried about Dak. He’s poised to have a great year and will be here a long time. Just unnecessary distraction going into the regular season. Just look at all the threads here and posts, including yours, about how giddy yall are. Y’all will be demanding Lance play after the first bad series. It’s coming. It’s happening now. And in the wise words of Parcells, y’all got sucked.

 

[MarcusRock]

Just turn on the TV and watch these talking head idiots talking about how screwed up of a mistake Jerry made and how Dak is on borrowed time. I’m not worried about Dak. He’s poised to have a great year and will be here a long time. Just unnecessary distraction going into the regular season. Just look at all the threads here and posts, including yours, about how giddy yall are. Y’all will be demanding Lance play after the first bad series. It’s coming. It’s happening now. And in the wise words of Parcells, y’all got sucked.

It's so interesting what someone placing their own self-proclaimed neutral assessment out there does to those dialed in to one perspective or another.

So you're running scared of what talking heads or other posters say or might say? Or this phantom potential "distraction" you think will rattle regular football business? What does Dak have to worry about as long as he plays well? Stephen came out during the Raiders game and said it doesn't affect Dak's contract extension plans at all and that it's coming. More than " y'all " are getting sucked, let me tell you.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I'm like you, I've always loved Dak and been very optimistic, but over the years I've started to wonder honestly about his mental makeup in terms of how he processes pressure when things aren't going well. I agree that the team and coaching have let him down at times but I have expected to see more out of him when other things weren't going well, especially last year against the niners.. This isn't just based on the niners game, this is something that has culminated over the last few years. I keep giving him the benefit of the doubt but I'm getting close to wondering if his ability to process turmoil is effecting his ability to be at his best when we need him most.

Trust me, I have been in his corner and still am, but I am worried about his blank stares on the sideline when things are awry. Either way, I'm not advocating Trey Lance over Dak, but when I objectively watched his film I came away from it with some appreciation for some of the things he insticively did.. I meant what I said in my original post about Dak's inability to step up in pocket instictively when it matters.. This is a HUGE part of a Qb's game and can really yeild positive results.. Too many times I see Dak hanging back there and scrambling too late when he could of stepped up and made a play... This was my biggest take away..

I honestly have no idea what you mean. He is mentaly tough.

How do you know he could have made a play? Could you see the whole field?

The last few years the oline and run game have faded. Last year the weapons faded.

 

[Kwyn]

Never said the players would be clamoring for Lance, but you, and others of your ill, will be after the first 3 and out. Hell, it’s already started.

Someone said it would only be an issue on the boards

You said it would be a distraction for the team.

I commented on that and said that it’s an issue for fans on the boards.

Seems like you’re looking for trouble where there is none.

No one but CZ posters care about CZ.

 

[Rockport]

Someone said it would only be an issue on the boards

You said it would be a distraction for the team.

I commented on that and said that it’s an issue for fans on the boards.

Seems like you’re looking for trouble where there is none.

No one but CZ posters care about CZ.

Turn on the TV and watch the sports shows. It’s the lead for every one of them

 

[MarcusRock]

Turn on the TV and watch the sports shows. It’s the lead for every one of them

Oh noes! The Stephen A. Smiths of the world are doing the very thing you posters warn us about them doing and then act hurt that they're actually doing that very thing. Isn't that what they call a circle of insanity? This is why the media (like the house at a casino) always wins. Because humans can't help themselves even when they know what's coming. Emotion, emotion, emotion. Just an observation.

 

[DandyDon52]

No, there is nothing wrong with Dak mentally. The guy simply had no team around him all of last season.

well lol then how do you explaining the games dak won?
same for how did rush go 4-1 losing only to the nfc champ?

 

[Kwyn]

Turn on the TV and watch the sports shows. It’s the lead for every one of them

Who cares. There is always going to be something. They need views and clicks to sell ads.

Teams tune that stuff out. No one in the room feels there’s a QB controversy. The fact that we, at the Zone, have to grind our gears and agonize over every little bit of news or rumor is simply a reflection of our own failure insatiable hunger for stuff to talk about.

This is a non issue but looking at our board we have a dozen people basically saying

“You’ve all been waiting for MY thoughts on this topic. Gather around! Hear my words! Share my outrage!”

We eat our own here at the Zone. We are as big an enemy of true team as anyone not actually playing the games or coaching.

 

[WhizKid]

The Dak stans have to be the craziest group to ever bless this board. I use "bless" loosely.
Anyways, go Cowboys, I hope Dak is SB MVP, I hope we go undefeated!

O'Doyle RULES!

 

[America's Cowboy]

well lol then how do you explaining the games dak won?
same for how did rush go 4-1 losing only to the nfc champ?

It's been explained in full detail. Our Defense carried Cooper Rush, especially since it was at the beginning of the season. Go look at the offense's points per game under Rush and compare it to under Dak. Look at each QBs game statistics. There you will have your answer.

 

[johneric8]

After spending minutes reading your OP, this is what I gained from it.

1. Playing for the 9ers is a completely different set of circumstances and their offensive line may be able to contain the rush from collapsing the pocket. Thus your analysis on comparing a seven year vet and a two year "rookie," - going into his third season in 2023 - who could not supplant Brock Purdy, has a sizeable flaw. The problem with the Dallas line is allowing an interior rush to cave the protection and it prevents Dak from stepping up.

2. All of pro football works on the mechanics of the QB's entire body when throwing the ball. While you see Mahomes sidearm when in trouble, and perhaps a few more, that style has been discouraged since leather helmets. You see these types of throws when there is nothing else to be done. And outside of Mahomes, they are far too risky. To quote you, " Yes, I know, he has a wonky side arm release that needs work but at times this funky mechanic gets the ball around edge rushers for positive plays." Since there is such a small sample size for Lance, what happens when he suffers the rush and sidearms around the edge rusher blindly into traffic?

3. To further quote you, " If Fat Mike's Qb school can iron out some of these wrinkles we very well might have a nice starting QB in a few years for the cost of a 4th rounder." Refer to my comment above about throwing mechanics and take a guess what "Fat," Mike will do in his tutelage of Lance. He will dissuade the two year going on three year rookie to not sidearm.

Jerry Jones watched Hurts and went home and dreamed about having a mobile QB, which allows the receivers to run off the defense, thus the QB races for large chunks of yardage. It appears, and I am only taking this from comments here and perhaps some mediot type sources, which are not sources at all, that Jones pulled the trigger on this trade without McClay putting Jerry's training wheels back on.

I have to wonder, if the running back position has no real value, then making the QB a some times running back discounts the QB position exactly how much? How will running the ball and getting hit by defenders shorten a QB's career? And since Trey Lance will be coming up for a contract extension, presumably in two seasons, how much will a team need to pay him to - again your words - "we very well might have a nice starting QB in a few years for the cost of a 4th rounder."

How much will that nice starting QB for a fourth cost once he negotiates for a second contract. Because the nano-second one uses starting as a descriptor for what amounts to a gadget QB at this point, there will be an agent ready, willing, and able to bend Jerry over a table for what amounts to an unknown who, at this point offered nothing as proof he is more than potential.

And potential wreaks of potential failure.

There is no sizeable flaw here, the only flaw is you not excepting my opinion based on what I saw.. One of the things I hammered home that I loved about Trey's game was his lighting quick ability to step up in pocket to avoid pressure, and let me tell you he does it well and I'm sure many on here wish Dak was more advanced in that area. I never in my post said that Trey should start over Dak, what I said is I saw some things he did better which should encourage all of us.. Shanny over in san fran even admitted that he let Trey down and put him in too soon which led to some bad injuries and a lack of progression..

I find it quite sad an amazing that some of you can objectively read my post and think I was starting a Dak hate thread. This is something I have never done, in fact I've been one of the fans in his corner.. Bottom line man, Trey is a talent that can be developed much like Romo was... He is a high quality dude with tons of upside so I'm glad we have him in our QB room.. Rush is like Drew Bledsoe with lead feet, we need a young buck with talent that is eager to win the starting job, and let me tell you, he will have a chance to do it in the next couple of years if he isn't traded..

 

[CowboyRoy]

Your eyes are kind of broke.. But that's OK the NFL makes this mistake all the time look at all those quarterbacks taking number one overall like Ryan Leaf in that Raiders quarterback and Trey Lance..

There are so many bad NFL i's with the way they look at how they play in college or what they've seen on tape in very limited accident and then somehow come on here and take a seven-year veteran and try to tell us what you think he might be able to do better.. When live bullets are flying in real games with game plans that's how you judge talent and right now Trey Lance is not even a Nat buzzing around Prescott 's ear.. He's irrelevant he's a project that's it a future project.. The best I see Trey Lance could ever be is kyler Murray.. Who also is overpaid and overrated but they have a similar game.. So yeah with work in a few years with some really good coaching he might be kyler Murray.. Kyler Murray is not better than Prescott except for running around in trying to make plays off schedule much like Johnny Football.. You see guys like that now have long careers Prescott's already proven over the last seven years that he could be part of #1 offenses and win games he's never been part of a losing season...

When healthy Prescott's never been part of a losing season he's top five in wins he has a great touchdown interception ratio.. All he has left to do now is try to breakthrough in the playoffs and this is a team game and that's what we're waiting on.. We're waiting for the team to show up you know have a strong run game and an offensive line against teams like the 49ers and the Rams who have better defensive lines in front sevens than most.. If the offensive line in the run game shows up with the defense you know the team like the 90s did when Rogers teams did Prescott will win in the playoffs.. If you're asking Prescott to win by himself on offense to carry the team that's ridiculous that's the problem here.. That's why Peyton Manning started off his playoff record at three and six before he broke through which was around year 8..

Yep........Every time these trolls talk about Dak carry the team, they are admitting we dont have good enough team.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I know, I know, another Trey Lance thread, but hear me out. I spent an hour looking over his play from his rookie season to current pre season action and I came away with a few things that separate him from Dak. Of course Dak is more advanced at this point but I saw a few things that Trey had that Dak lacks..

#1. His ability to naturally step up in pocket instinctively to avoid the edge rushers and make positive plays either with his arm or feet. This is something that Dak is horrible at in my opinion and it's an exercise in frustration for me to watch.

#2. His release is much much quicker and his arm is way stronger. Yes, I know, he has a wonky side arm release that needs work but at times this funky mechanic gets the ball around edge rushers for positive plays so I will leave that up your eyes on that one..

I've always been a Dak fan, and not under some false pretentious that Lance is going to take Dak's job but I seriously see some very good intangibles with this young man and can see why we traded for him... If Fat Mike's Qb school can iron out some of these wrinkles we very well might have a nice starting QB in a few years for the cost of a 4th rounder.

yea...gonna have to disagree on that one. Probably more disappointed with his arm strength than anything else