My opinion- Finish off the O-line now...

[silverbear]

We have at least one contingency plan for Adams.

We just bought it in Leonard Davis.

Except Leonard wasn't particularly good at LT... .

Can you say with any certainty anyone in our starting five on the offensive line will be?

Are you saying that our starters are set in stone??

Or are you saying there are no guards out there good enough to possibly put Kosier on the bench?? Mind you, I'm not down on Kosier, but I certainly don't consider him irreplaceable in the starting lineup...

Yes, I most assuredly want the Boys to draft an offensive lineman on the first day, I'm not at all content with the backups we have at the moment... we THINK that McQuistan and Procter might be pretty good, but they didn't do much last year, did they??

I'd even be comfortable with drafting an offensive lineman in the first round, but I'd want the Boys to trade down a few picks if they decide to go that way...

My top two offensive line targets in this draft would be Justin Blalock and Manny Ramirez... I happen to believe that either one could compete for a starting job this year...

And while we're talking about the offensive line, I'd be interested to know if Kyle Kosier can play right guard... my thinking is that it would be scary to put Flozell Adams (350 pounds) and Leonard Davis (370 pounds) beside each other on the left side of the line... between the two of them, they could block out the sun...

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Are you saying that our starters are set in stone??

pretty much

Or are you saying there are no guards out there good enough to possibly put Kosier on the bench??

certainly not a rookie IMO

I'm not at all content with the backups we have at the moment... we THINK that McQuistan and Procter might be pretty good, but they didn't do much last year, did they??

you forgot Joe Berger, and has a rookie done anything in the NFL?

I'd even be comfortable with drafting an offensive lineman in the first round, but I'd want the Boys to trade down a few picks if they decide to go that way...

I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing that we just wasted a 1st round pick, in a stacked 1st 2 rounds, on a player who won't see the field his rookie year

My top two offensive line targets in this draft would be Justin Blalock and Manny Ramirez... I happen to believe that either one could compete for a starting job this year...

if you want to target an Olineman, why not a OT? and what's wrong w/ taking Samson Satele in the 3rd round? who projects to both C and OG in the pros, unlike Blalock and Ramirez, who are strictly OGs, check this out, Satele's short shuttle time, 4.29, was D-back like, and he's 300lbs

And while we're talking about the offensive line, I'd be interested to know if Kyle Kosier can play right guard... my thinking is that it would be scary to put Flozell Adams (350 pounds) and Leonard Davis (370 pounds) beside each other on the left side of the line... between the two of them, they could block out the sun...

Davis is a better right-side player

sorry bear, I don't see Dallas taking a OG high in the draft when they're high on Proctor and Berger, and think they can develop them

 

[silverbear]

pretty much

Then we won't see all that much improvement in our offensive line play this year...

Candidly, I think you're higher on our starting offensive line than the coaches are...

certainly not a rookie IMO

And IMO, there are at least 2 or 3 better guards available in this draft, perhaps more... guys who, if given a chance to compete with Kyle for the starting job, might well put him on the bench... which, given his versatility, would not be a bad thing...

you forgot Joe Berger, and has a rookie done anything in the NFL?

Didn't forget him, just don't care all that much for what I've read about him... I'll be surprised if he makes the 53 man roster...

As for the question about the rookies, it's pretty silly, isn't it?? They haven't had a CHANCE to do anything in the NFL, while McQuistan and Procter did...

I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing that we just wasted a 1st round pick, in a stacked 1st 2 rounds, on a player who won't see the field his rookie year

And I'm saying you're wrong to assume that any offensive lineman who might merit a first round draft pick would automatically find himself on the bench... you seem to believe the Cowboys have a dominating offensive line, and they're not CLOSE to that point yet... I'd say their line is middle of the pack right now, nothing special but not terrible...

Understand that I'm not calling Kosier a dog, I won't be upset if he winds up the starter again this year... I'm just saying that he's not a stud, and if the Boys can get hold of what they consider to be a stud guard at pick 22 (or better still, if they can trade down a few picks), then they ought to look to further improve their offensive line...

if you want to target an Olineman, why not a OT?

After the top two tackles, who ought to be long gone (and I don't care much for Levi Brown anyway), the next best offensive linemen are guards...

I am in favor of them looking at a tackle later in the draft, though...

and what's wrong w/ taking Samson Satele in the 3rd round? who projects to both C and OG in the pros, unlike Blalock and Ramirez, who are strictly OGs, check this out, Satele's short shuttle time, 4.29, was D-back like, and he's 300lbs

Is he 300 pounds?? I ask because one website that gave the results of the Combine workouts had him listed at 278... I had Samson high on my board, figured him to go in the range you suggested... but if he's only 280, I don't want him in the 7th round...

BTW, both Blalock and Ramirez can play tackle in a pinch, too...

Davis is a better right-side player

Given that he played left tackle for a number of years, I think he'd have little problem with lining up at left guard...

sorry bear, I don't see Dallas taking a OG high in the draft when they're high on Proctor and Berger, and think they can develop them

Sorry, "Bob" (LOL), but while we know that PARCELLS was high on Berger and Procter, we don't really know how Phillips feels about them...

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Then we won't see all that much improvement in our offensive line play this year...

Candidly, I think you're higher on our starting offensive line than the coaches are...

I'm not that high on them, just they have less question marks than a rookie does

And IMO, there are at least 2 or 3 better guards available in this draft, perhaps more... guys who, if given a chance to compete with Kyle for the starting job, might well put him on the bench... which, given his versatility, would not be a bad thing...

I highly doubt that, but that's just my opinion

As for the question about the rookies, it's pretty silly, isn't it?? They haven't had a CHANCE to do anything in the NFL, while McQuistan and Procter did...

it's just as silly as automatically assuming a high-draft pick, rookie, has a better shot than players already in the system, already being developed, already in an NFL strength and conditioning program

Is he 300 pounds??

he weighed in at 300lbs at the Combine, from 2 websites, so I'm pretty sure he is 300lbs

BTW, both Blalock and Ramirez can play tackle in a pinch, too...

no, Blalock is short as all hell, 6'3" 320, he's a bowling bowl, and doesn't move or slide well in pass-protection, and Ramirez? he's a road-grader, not very well in space either if you read the scouting reports, both have short-arms

sorry, in college they could play OT, but not in the NFL, no how, no way

Given that he played left tackle for a number of years, I think he'd have little problem with lining up at left guard...

maybe so, but movement isn't Davis' friend, he's better when he has the chance to maul people, which is what he would be doing lining up on the right-side, esp. at RG

Sorry, "Bob" (LOL), but while we know that PARCELLS was high on Berger and Procter, we don't really know how Phillips feels about them...

I think I've read somewhere that the staff is still high on Proctor and McQ

 

[Aikbach]

I'd pee my pants like a little girl if Blalock slipped to Dallas in round two, stranger things have happened.

Houston and Blalock, the first day would be a smoking success.

I'm not keen on taking guards in round one however, Larry Allen even had to wait until round two.

 

[silverbear]

I'm not that high on them, just they have less question marks than a rookie does

Oh, I see lots of questions on our offensive line...

I highly doubt that, but that's just my opinion

Well, let's just say you seem to think Kosier is a LOT better than I do... and you seem to think there are no offensive guards in this draft who could POSSIBLY compete with him...

it's just as silly as automatically assuming a high-draft pick, rookie, has a better shot than players already in the system, already being developed, already in an NFL strength and conditioning program

High draft picks tend to become high draft picks by being pretty good...

no, Blalock is short as all hell, 6'3" 320, he's a bowling bowl, and doesn't move or slide well in pass-protection, and Ramirez? he's a road-grader, not very well in space either if you read the scouting reports

I'm talking about the ability to play in a pinch, i.e., if the injury bug bites...

maybe so, but movement isn't Davis' friend, he's better when he has the chance to maul people, which is what he would be doing lining up on the right-side, esp. at RG

He can maul people just fine at LG, too... if the Boys lined up that way, they'd be running left most of the time, which means that Kosier on the right side would be doing most of the pulling (which is his strong suit)...

I think I've read somewhere that the staff is still high on Proctor and McQ

And they might be... I'm certainly not down on them, I'm just saying that if we can upgrade from them, we should go for it...

I want a significantly improved offensive line next season, that's all there is to it... to me, that's the single best, most efficient way to make the progression from playoff contender to Super Bowl contender...

Now, go to bed...

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Oh, I see lots of questions on our offensive line...

good for you, but that still doesn't mean Blalock or Ramirez will be worth a damn in the NFL

Well, let's just say you seem to think Kosier is a LOT better than I do... and you seem to think there are no offensive guards in this draft who could POSSIBLY compete with him...

our left-side was awesomeness last year, Kosier isn't irreplaceable, just at this time, he's just flat-out better than anyone available out there, esp. a rookie OG who's a 50/50 chance of being a bust

High draft picks tend to become high draft picks by being pretty good...

so all high-draft picks are going to be pretty good? gotcha

I'm talking about the ability to play in a pinch, i.e., if the injury bug bites...

you don't put players who can't play OT, at OT, again, they are strictly OGs, they will not a play a down at OT...ever, in the NFL

He can maul people just fine at LG, too... if the Boys lined up that way, they'd be running left most of the time, which means that Kosier on the right side would be doing most of the pulling (which is his strong suit)...

ok, put Davis at LG, Kosier at RG...I mean, Dallas is most-likely keeping Kosier at LG and putting Davis at RG, why am I listening to you? lol

And they might be... I'm certainly not down on them, I'm just saying that if we can upgrade from them, we should go for it...

I want a significantly improved offensive line next season, that's all there is to it... to me, that's the single best, most efficient way to make the progression from playoff contender to Super Bowl contender...

Now, go to bed...

a rookie is just an option to upgrading an Oline, it is not the solution

could it be? sure, but we have other more pressing needs, and better value to address

 

[Bob Sacamano]

btw, wouldn't have a problem w/ Ramirez in the 3rd/4th round

....


guess I win, I'm going to bed now

 

[5mics]

Oh I think Nelson is a wonderful player. But I'm more scared to death of our depth/age at corner.

I'm starting to hope that we trade down and get more picks for either this draft or next.

I'm not worried about T-New & Henry so much as I am about the 3rd & 4th CBs. I think our pass rush will be upgraded next season so that'll help out big time. However, Aaron Glenn, Nate Jones, & Jaques Reeves should be replaced w/ fresh, talented blood if possible. The reason why I'm picking FS over CB in the 1st is because I think FS will provide us w/ better value w/ the 22nd overall than CB. The FS that should be available is higher on my board than the CBs that would be available. I would take Nelson over Aaron Ross, Chris Houston, D. Hughes, etc. However, if Nelson is gone, I'd have to re-adjust my thinking.....

 

[5mics]

if you want to target an Olineman, why not a OT? and what's wrong w/ taking Samson Satele in the 3rd round? who projects to both C and OG in the pros, unlike Blalock and Ramirez, who are strictly OGs, check this out, Satele's short shuttle time, 4.29, was D-back like, and he's 300lbs

Wow, I guess if you tell a lie long enough, it really does become true.
Blalock played RT for three years at UT and was asked to move to RG his senior year BECAUSE the original RG got injured. The coaches wanted the BEST linemen out there and the the back-up RT was BETTER than the back-up RG so Blalock was moved to RG. His move had nothing to do w/ his ability to play RT. Blalock can play RT in the NFL.....

 

[silverbear]

good for you, but that still doesn't mean Blalock or Ramirez will be worth a damn in the NFL

That's Washington Commanders thinking... always go with the vet, and don't ever count on getting any good players in the draft...

Blalock's and Ramirez's draft rankings are an indicator that scouts think they'll "be worth a d*mn in the NFL"...

our left-side was awesomeness last year,

You're kidding, right?? NOTHING about our offensive line last year approached "awesomeness"...

Kosier isn't irreplaceable, just at this time, he's just flat-out better than anyone available out there, esp. a rookie OG who's a 50/50 chance of being a bust

Any top 50 draft prospect stands better than a 50-50 chance of NOT being a bust in the NFL... that's why they're top 50 draft prospects...

And even though you're one of my favorite posters, I have to say you're completely full of bovine fecal matter to insist so unequivocally that Kyle Kosier is "flat-out better than anyone available out there"... you simply don't know that's the case, indeed I'm pretty sure there are at least a few guards in this draft who will go on to have more successful NFL careers than Kyle has had, or will have...

so all high-draft picks are going to be pretty good? gotcha

Never said that, but the odds are more in their favor than they were for a certain UNDRAFTED ROOKIE FREE AGENT whose initials are KK...

you don't put players who can't play OT, at OT, again, they are strictly OGs, they will not a play a down at OT...ever, in the NFL

My goodness, never have seen you so completely clueless before... just insisting that this, this and that will NEVER happen-- "ever, in the NFL"...

Well, let's say for the purpose of argument the Boys do draft Blalock... then, you have a rash of injuries at OT, losing Adams, Colombo AND McQuistan at the same time for a game or two or three... that would be extreme, I'll admit, but other teams have experienced such a plague of injuries at one position in the past (we lost a lot of linebackers a coupla years back)... at that point, you have Davis who could move out to tackle, but who mans the other tackle??

Answer-- in all likelihood, your starting RT in that scenario, for the short term, would be Blalock... and there goes your "never, in the NFL" argument...

a rookie is just an option to upgrading an Oline, it is not the solution

And that's PRECISELY what I want-- options for upgrading our offensive line... doing it your way provides us with no such options, it pretty much leaves us stuck with what we already have... and I'm sorry, but I was not impressed with our offensive line last year, so yeah, I want options here...

could it be? sure, but we have other more pressing needs

No, IMO, we don't... IMO, offensive line is the first, second and third priority this offseason...

Improve the offensive line, and you'll make Tony Romo better... improve the offensive line, and you'll make Julius Jones and Marion Barber better... improve the offensive line, and you'll even make the DEFENSE better (by keeping the ball in your offense's hands, and their offense off the field)...

Ever since the Jimmy Johnson days, it has been my philosophy that the secret to building a consistent winner in the NFL is building a dominating offensive line... the line he built back then, with Tuinei, Newton, Stepnoski, Allen, Gogan, Erik Williams et al might have been the best line in the history of the game, and was the real secret to the Cowboys' success back then...

Which is why I'd like to see one more, lesser free agent offensive lineman brought in, then one drafted on the first day of the draft, and another in the later rounds... if it means that a Berger or Procter or Darilek or even McQuistan gets cut, so be it, because that will mean we've found better than them...

Not that I'm down on any of them, you understand, I just don't want to have to count on them for quality playing time next year... unless, of course, they earn it with their play...

 

[silverbear]

btw, wouldn't have a problem w/ Ramirez in the 3rd/4th round

Well, that doesn't make a lot of sense... you don't want to draft one earlier, because he couldn't beat out Kosier, yet you want to draft one later...

Wouldn't a guard drafted later stand LESS of a chance of beating out Kyle for a starting job?? Or are you saying you'd rather draft somebody with the intention of making him a backup, as opposed to drafting somebody who might actually compete for a starting job??

Mind you, I wouldn't have a problem with Ramirez in the 3rd... indeed, you can't say I'm "locked in" on draft an OL in the first round, because I'm simply not... all I want is a good guard, or guard-center type, on the first day of the draft... I have in a number of other posts outlined which linemen I like on the first day...

 

[Manster68]

Blalock's and Ramirez's draft rankings are an indicator that scouts think they'll "be worth a d*mn in the NFL"...

Agreed, but I highly doubt Dallas goes OG at pick #22. So, maybe Ramirez will be there in the 2nd round.

You're kidding, right?? NOTHING about our offensive line last year approached "awesomeness"...

Yeah, but it was improved from a year earlier. You don't get to be #5 in Total Offense with a bad offensive line.

IMO, offensive line is the first, second and third priority this offseason...

Improve the offensive line, and you'll make Tony Romo better... improve the offensive line, and you'll make Julius Jones and Marion Barber better... improve the offensive line, and you'll even make the DEFENSE better (by keeping the ball in your offense's hands, and their offense off the field)...

Ever since the Jimmy Johnson days, it has been my philosophy that the secret to building a consistent winner in the NFL is building a dominating offensive line... the line he built back then, with Tuinei, Newton, Stepnoski, Allen, Gogan, Erik Williams et al might have been the best line in the history of the game, and was the real secret to the Cowboys' success back then...

Nobody wins a championship with weak offensive lines. Probably the weakest offensive line from a Super Bowl champion were the Broncos in the late 90s. Shanahan had them doing those cheap cut blocks that never got called.

And, yes, the 1995 Cowboy offensive line was the best ever.

Tuinei - Newton - Donaldson - Allen - Williams

The BEST EVER!

 

[Manster68]

Well, that doesn't make a lot of sense... you don't want to draft one earlier, because he couldn't beat out Kosier, yet you want to draft one later...

Wouldn't a guard drafted later stand LESS of a chance of beating out Kyle for a starting job?? Or are you saying you'd rather draft somebody with the intention of making him a backup, as opposed to drafting somebody who might actually compete for a starting job??

Mind you, I wouldn't have a problem with Ramirez in the 3rd... indeed, you can't say I'm "locked in" on draft an OL in the first round, because I'm simply not... all I want is a good guard, or guard-center type, on the first day of the draft... I have in a number of other posts outlined which linemen I like on the first day...

Guard-Center type eh?

That Samson Satele could be a possibility. Plus, he is a big body.

 

[Clove]

If we could drade down and acquire more picks, and come out of this draft with a return man/OG/OLB and a NT on the 1st day, I would jump for joy.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

That's Washington Commanders thinking... always go with the vet, and don't ever count on getting any good players in the draft...

I love the draft, it's just we have more pressing needs than an OG

Blalock's and Ramirez's draft rankings are an indicator that scouts think they'll "be worth a d*mn in the NFL"...

ok, doesn't mean they will be because some analyst thinks he will

You're kidding, right?? NOTHING about our offensive line last year approached "awesomeness"...

the left-side was pretty good, ask Yakuza Rich to give you the figures

ny top 50 draft prospect stands better than a 50-50 chance of NOT being a bust in the NFL... that's why they're top 50 draft prospects...

well duh, that's why I said 50/50, you could replace 'bust' with 'succeed', it's all the same thing, since the chance is just as great for going either way

And even though you're one of my favorite posters, I have to say you're completely full of bovine fecal matter to insist so unequivocally that Kyle Kosier is "flat-out better than anyone available out there"... you simply don't know that's the case, indeed I'm pretty sure there are at least a few guards in this draft who will go on to have more successful NFL careers than Kyle has had, or will have...

all I'm saying is w/ Kosier at LG, and Davis at RG, the OG position just went down in priority, I know you want a line full of maulers, but Kosier fits the system we're trying to run, and was good in his role

My goodness, never have seen you so completely clueless before... just insisting that this, this and that will NEVER happen-- "ever, in the NFL"...

Well, let's say for the purpose of argument the Boys do draft Blalock... then, you have a rash of injuries at OT, losing Adams, Colombo AND McQuistan at the same time for a game or two or three... that would be extreme, I'll admit, but other teams have experienced such a plague of injuries at one position in the past (we lost a lot of linebackers a coupla years back)... at that point, you have Davis who could move out to tackle, but who mans the other tackle??

yes, Blalock can play OT if he's the last-man standing out of 4, but that doesn't mean that ability to play OT is worth anything, he's an OG, he doesn't project to OT, so I would quit saying he could play OT in a pinch, because that means he can slide over there to compete for a starting job, he won't

No, IMO, we don't... IMO, offensive line is the first, second and third priority this offseason...

to you it is, and what about the pass-rush? a potential #1 receiver?

Improve the offensive line, and you'll make Tony Romo better... improve the offensive line, and you'll make Julius Jones and Marion Barber better... improve the offensive line, and you'll even make the DEFENSE better (by keeping the ball in your offense's hands, and their offense off the field)...

that's the whole issue though, you seem to think that just because Blalock is a 1st day pick, that it's an automatic improvement on the line

sorry, it isn't, it could be, but that's yet to be determined

Ever since the Jimmy Johnson days, it has been my philosophy that the secret to building a consistent winner in the NFL is building a dominating offensive line... the line he built back then, with Tuinei, Newton, Stepnoski, Allen, Gogan, Erik Williams et al might have been the best line in the history of the game, and was the real secret to the Cowboys' success back then...

how many 1st round picks did we use to acquire that line? Dallas hasn't taken an Olineman in the 1st since '83, and that's not going to change when a huge chunk of money has been invested in the line already

Not that I'm down on any of them, you understand, I just don't want to have to count on them for quality playing time next year... unless, of course, they earn it with their play...

I understand, I'm not down on Blalock or Ramirez either, but there's a number of other ways to go in the 1st round that I would rather explore, we don't need a backup OG who may win a starting job

and even still, he has to adjust to the strength and playing speed of the NFl as a rookie, no small task

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Well, that doesn't make a lot of sense... you don't want to draft one earlier, because he couldn't beat out Kosier, yet you want to draft one later...

it does make sense when you read that I don't want to waste a pick, in a very stacked 1st 2 rounds, on a player who won't see the field his rookie year, a OG, or OG/C, would be fine by me in the 3rd, or after

Wouldn't a guard drafted later stand LESS of a chance of beating out Kyle for a starting job?? Or are you saying you'd rather draft somebody with the intention of making him a backup, as opposed to drafting somebody who might actually compete for a starting job??

if I wanted to draft someone who wouldn't be much competition for a starting job, I wouldn't do it in the 3rd round

and there's everything to love about Satele, quick as anything, versatile, even played OT, so I guess he could play there in a pinch too and a mean SOB to boot

 

[lspain1]

I, along with other esteemed posters in this thread (they're only esteamed when they're angry), would also like to address the OL sometime on the first day and not leave it for later. That does not mean #22 but round two or three look very reasonable for OL if the value is there. I recognize that WR, CB, and NT will weigh in somewhere as well so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

My reasoning on continuing to look for OL after this FA period is that I do want to be forced to go FA again for OL anytime soon. We need to be stockpiling talent to make up for the deficiencies of the recent past.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I, along with other esteemed posters in this thread (they're only esteamed when they're angry), would also like to address the OL sometime on the first day and not leave it for later. That does not mean #22 but round two or three look very reasonable for OL if the value is there. I recognize that WR, CB, and NT will weigh in somewhere as well so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

My reasoning on continuing to look for OL after this FA period is that I do want to be forced to go FA again for OL anytime soon. We need to be stockpiling talent to make up for the deficiencies of the recent past.

not a problem, I wouldn't mind we address the OLine either

after the 1st 2 rounds

 

[big dog cowboy]

I, along with other esteemed posters in this thread (they're only esteamed when they're angry), would also like to address the OL sometime on the first day and not leave it for later. That does not mean #22 but round two or three look very reasonable for OL if the value is there. I recognize that WR, CB, and NT will weigh in somewhere as well so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Well said.