NBA Free Agency

[jterrell]

The NBA screwed the Lakers. They had a very good deal worked out to land Paul and the Commish stepped in and put the Kibosh on the deal, clearing the way for him to go, instead, to the Clippers. Ironic, in that, the NBA couldn't move fast enough to help David Sterling in that deal. A lot of blame for Sterling and not a lot of it is being placed where it actually belongs IMO.

The Lakers were gifted Pau from a Laker legend in Jerry West.
The NBA heard that outcry and then had no desire to see CP3 traded for the same bag of magic beans.

The Lakers failed moves were outlaid fairly well above by CAS.
They brought that implosion upon themselves.
CP3 would have made them a far better team but they'd still be in a world of hurt overall.
The age on the roster and the lack of overall talent, plus the Kobe injury would have made the CP3 Lakers the CP3 Hornets.
It was going to take time to shed those big contracts and they extended that pain with the Kobe renewal.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

CA: Can feel the passion for the sport. I hear you there for sure.
I coach year round and we seldom go more than a couple days without a practice or skills session.

Lakers taking on Nash was ridiculous because of all the first round picks they shipped off.

Mgmt obviously went downhill then they passed chance to make Phil major decision maker.

I don't think they are really in play for Love.
Yes, he loves Cali but there are 3 other teams in California and the Lakers are arguably in the worst shape of any of them.
Love says tasted all the losing he can stomache.
Not only that, the only building block LAL has is Julius Randle who also plays PF.

I put Love 50% top CLE with LeBron; 40% to GSW, 10% field.

Lakers fan are delusional and entitled led by a largely homeristic Lakers media contingent.
It's like they have 5 Mickey Spagnolas out there.

I don't really fault the Lakers for not getting Phil. He wanted to be part time coach and GM in training. Kupchak is, IMO, one of the best GMs in Basketball. The Lakers werent going to replace him with Phil and they really needed a full time HC. Now, you can criticize the decision to go after DAntonie and I can understand that but I honestly don't think the Lakers were ever going to have him in their long term plans anyway. I think they new they were a season or two away from being good again. No reason to pay Jackson that much money to coach only home games and be a division between Kupchak and Management. I didn't love DAntonie but for just a temp guy, he was fine.

I do think Love still might end up on the WC. Now, that might not be with the Lakers but I don't see him going to Cleveland. He's going to get paid either way so I don't think that's the issue. If you think he wants to win more then anything, then maybe Cleveland might make sense with James but if he really wants to get paid, then his best chances of making the most money is probably in L.A. or N.Y. If he plays with James, he's always going to be second or third banana. However, if he goes to another team in a marketable city, then he becomes a prime NBA star and his endorsement money will probably outweigh his NBA salary. Personally, I think his desire to be back on the WC, to life the surf life so to speak, is the most important thing to him. If that's true, then he's not going to Cleveland or any other land locked franchise IMO.

The whole delusional Laker Fan thing is BS JT. They are no different then any other fan base. Certainly no different then Dallas or SA fans IMO. The Lakers are going to get a couple of big time, Max contract guys. They can do that this year if they want or they can wait to see what next year brings. If they don't land Anthony, which I am not really a fan of anyway, then I hope they do let Gasol walk and clear the decks for younger talent. I hope they trade the Nash Contract, pick up some of the cash and are done with it by next year. Kobe may or may not stay. If the Lakers clear the roster, he has said that he may ask for a trade or elect to retire. His contract could be resolved or not. Either way, if they keep him this year, it doesn't hurt them cap wise and they can always spread his last year out over two years if they so choose in 2015. Might be in for another suck it year, don't know yet.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The Lakers were gifted Pau from a Laker legend in Jerry West.
The NBA heard that outcry and then had no desire to see CP3 traded for the same bag of magic beans.

The Lakers failed moves were outlaid fairly well above by CAS.
They brought that implosion upon themselves.
CP3 would have made them a far better team but they'd still be in a world of hurt overall.
The age on the roster and the lack of overall talent, plus the Kobe injury would have made the CP3 Lakers the CP3 Hornets.
It was going to take time to shed those big contracts and they extended that pain with the Kobe renewal.

The Lakers took advantage of a deal, that's good management. Just like teams took advantage of the deal Cleveland gifted people this year. What the NBA did was different. They picked winners and losers IMO. I mean, it's done so no sense crying over it but the fact remains, that IMO, is what hurt the Lakers more then anything. If they had Kobe, CP3 and Gasol on the roster, they would be in either very good shape to contend for titles or, it would be much easier for them to have simply cut ties with Kobe and that would have put them in very good shape to sign a bigtime Max player. What are the chances, I wonder, of James coming to the Lakers if they had Gasol and CP3, minus Kobe, on the roster?

 

[Jenky]

The KINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rockport]

I fault LeBron exactly ZERO.
He has handled this appropriately IMO.

Miami hasn't done anything of note to convince him he can win there going forward.
CLE has a lot of work to do along the same lines but at least has started putting it together.

End of the day it's not LeBron's fault everyone else wants to wait on him.
Perhaps he is waiting on people to think and act for themselves.

It's pretty clear he is truly friends with DWade, loves Ohio to death and is loyal TO A FAULT.
This is a life changing decision for him. And everyone else wants to put the pressure of the entire league on his shoulders.

All LeBron has requested is proof teams that want him will put pieces around them.
He hasn't asked people to wine and dine him.
He hasn't started some 7 team pool and dropped one per day like a bad reality tv contest.
He's been with friends and family and focused largely on basketball.
He;ll take a couple days to watch the World Cup final in Brazil and then be back to basketball and family.
The fact people want ot hate him for that shows just how absurd they are.

He's given zero news conferences and hasn't filed his plans online.
The travel to Brazil has been planned well in advance and his other movements are consistent with every year's off-season schedule.

It is not his fault other people refuse to get a life; he is just living his.

Like I said, it's sad that people actually condone his "look at me" behavior.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Do we really need another thread on this issue? I don't think so.

 

[jterrell]

The Lakers took advantage of a deal, that's good management. Just like teams took advantage of the deal Cleveland gifted people this year. What the NBA did was different. They picked winners and losers IMO. I mean, it's done so no sense crying over it but the fact remains, that IMO, is what hurt the Lakers more then anything. If they had Kobe, CP3 and Gasol on the roster, they would be in either very good shape to contend for titles or, it would be much easier for them to have simply cut ties with Kobe and that would have put them in very good shape to sign a bigtime Max player. What are the chances, I wonder, of James coming to the Lakers if they had Gasol and CP3, minus Kobe, on the roster?

ROFL... they wouldn't have those players because Gasol was the key piece to the CP3 trade that was nixed.

The sad truth Lakers fans don't wanna admit now is that the league probably investigated and knew Lamar Odom (the key player coming to the Hornets) was using crack.

Stern's stated reason was that the Hornets didn't need to collect mediocre older pieces.
Truth is Lamar Odom was later traded to Dallas for thin air and a trade exception.
So what the Lakers tried to pull was shipping of Gasol for the best young PG in the game.
NBA owners rightfully crapped bricks at that idea.
Since they were then all part owners in the Hornets their influence was fair.

 

[jterrell]

ABQ: instead of 10 replies let me clear up the obvious.
Lakers fans are CLEARLY delusional.
They had(some still have) Melo AND LeBron signing with the Lakers this off-season....
Others have Carmelo then Kevin Love.

But your Gasol, CP3, Kobe dreams would have never happened. There was no CP3 trade without Gasol.

D'Antoni was never the choice. He was brought in 10 games into the year as a hope to get more out of Nash.
The terrible moves LAL made are in TWO poor coaching choices compounded by selling out to win minus the talent to do so.
They traded for DH12 without an extension agreed to. AND brought in a coach that virtually assured he'd leave.
They traded for Nash when he was clearly declining and fighting a steep injury history that had been largely mitigated by a terrific PHX training staff.

This is not second guessing stuff.
There are plenty of threads where I questioned their sanity.

Right now they have NO COACH!!
Only team in the league without one for more than a few days.

 

[jterrell]

Like I said, it's sad that people actually condone his "look at me" behavior.

he has had zero look at me behavior.
not his fault you can't sleep at night without dreaming of him.
he's done zero press and held only one private team meeting for all of one hour.

other than that he has followed his normal off-season routine and plan.

 

[Rockport]

he has had zero look at me behavior.
not his fault you can't sleep at night without dreaming of him.
he's done zero press and held only one private team meeting for all of one hour.

other than that he has followed his normal off-season routine and plan.

Really? No need to lower yourself with 5th grade type comments.

He's a prima donna, spoiled and with a sense of entitlement. When he gets older, he's going to have many regrets as he gets wiser.

 

[jterrell]

Really? No need to lower yourself with 5th grade type comments.

He's a prima donna, spoiled and with a sense of entitlement. When he gets older, he's going to have many regrets as he gets wiser.

ROFL, you need meds man.
LeBron is the best basketball player on the planet and he isn't a kid, he well grown.
He's made around 500 million dollars in his lifetime and you think you are qualified to judge his maturity and future thoughts?
ROFL ROFL ROFL.
On ignore you go.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

ROFL... they wouldn't have those players because Gasol was the key piece to the CP3 trade that was nixed.

The sad truth Lakers fans don't wanna admit now is that the league probably investigated and knew Lamar Odom (the key player coming to the Hornets) was using crack.

Stern's stated reason was that the Hornets didn't need to collect mediocre older pieces.
Truth is Lamar Odom was later traded to Dallas for thin air and a trade exception.
So what the Lakers tried to pull was shipping of Gasol for the best young PG in the game.
NBA owners rightfully crapped bricks at that idea.
Since they were then all part owners in the Hornets their influence was fair.

Even so, if they had CP3, minus Gasol and Kobe, that could have meant James and maybe Anthony? I don't know of any evidence to suggest that Odom was or was not using crack. I mean, it's certainly possible but if that's the case, then the League should have done something about it before hand. The Odom issues were very well known, long before that trade situation. I don't think you can put this on Laker Fans. That's not right.

The trade details were what they were. There are good trades and bad trades every day. The Lakers aren't getting saved or compensated for the Nash trade anytime soon. It was just a bad trade. If you want to say that the owners stepped in, I guess I would need to see proof of that, as I don't have any info on how much input the other owners had there. However, the point of the original post was that the League had no problem stepping in and killing a deal with the Lakers for CP3 but also had no problem gifting CP3 to the Clippers and Dan Sterling, knowing full well what kind of organization and owner he was. You don't see the double standard there? I don't think you can justify that. That's why the League and the Owners have no business being involved in these kinds of things. If you want to say that team A is now owned and managed by the NBA, then you hire a GM and staff to make decisions for that team but you don't allow the other Owners to make decisions because that puts other Franchise Owners at a significant disadvantage. Then, you compound the issue by giving CP3 to Sterling? Really?

I just don't see the wisdom in any of that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

ABQ: instead of 10 replies let me clear up the obvious.
Lakers fans are CLEARLY delusional.
They had(some still have) Melo AND LeBron signing with the Lakers this off-season....
Others have Carmelo then Kevin Love.

But your Gasol, CP3, Kobe dreams would have never happened. There was no CP3 trade without Gasol.

D'Antoni was never the choice. He was brought in 10 games into the year as a hope to get more out of Nash.
The terrible moves LAL made are in TWO poor coaching choices compounded by selling out to win minus the talent to do so.
They traded for DH12 without an extension agreed to. AND brought in a coach that virtually assured he'd leave.
They traded for Nash when he was clearly declining and fighting a steep injury history that had been largely mitigated by a terrific PHX training staff.

This is not second guessing stuff.
There are plenty of threads where I questioned their sanity.

Right now they have NO COACH!!
Only team in the league without one for more than a few days.

The Laker fans are no different then any other fan. I don't think your clearing anything up here. Your simply making blanket statements about a fan base that have no real substance. Every team who is or was in the running for James and or Anthony are in that same state of mind because you have to be. If you have the slightest chance of getting either of those players, you go for it. You know that JT. To say that this is justification for Lakers fans being delusional is not accurate. Heck, all fan bases are delusional, by that criteria and to be honest, that's probably the truest statement of all. All of them are to a great extent. I don't know of one that is not.

The Coaching choices were driven by talent. It makes no sense to pay any coach a big time salary when you have nobody on the team. That's not smart business so to me, the Lakers were smart to do that. I don't think that's a negative for them. The DH12 deal was what it was. The Mavs would have done the same deal if they could have. It was a gamble that didn't pay off. I have no real issue with that. The Nash deal was also a gamble. However, I do believe that the Lakers deserve all they get for that deal. Had Nash worked out, it would have been a decent deal but I just don't think there was any way it could have. That was not a good decision, IMO, by the Lakers. Now, having said that, if they are allowed to sign CP3, the Nash deal probably never happens.

I don't really have a problem that they don't have a Coach. It's not like they won't have one soon enough. I don't really think it's that big of a deal but if you do, that's fine.

 

[jterrell]

I don't really fault the Lakers for not getting Phil. He wanted to be part time coach and GM in training. Kupchak is, IMO, one of the best GMs in Basketball. The Lakers werent going to replace him with Phil and they really needed a full time HC. Now, you can criticize the decision to go after DAntonie and I can understand that but I honestly don't think the Lakers were ever going to have him in their long term plans anyway. I think they new they were a season or two away from being good again. No reason to pay Jackson that much money to coach only home games and be a division between Kupchak and Management. I didn't love DAntonie but for just a temp guy, he was fine.

I do think Love still might end up on the WC. Now, that might not be with the Lakers but I don't see him going to Cleveland. He's going to get paid either way so I don't think that's the issue. If you think he wants to win more then anything, then maybe Cleveland might make sense with James but if he really wants to get paid, then his best chances of making the most money is probably in L.A. or N.Y. If he plays with James, he's always going to be second or third banana. However, if he goes to another team in a marketable city, then he becomes a prime NBA star and his endorsement money will probably outweigh his NBA salary. Personally, I think his desire to be back on the WC, to life the surf life so to speak, is the most important thing to him. If that's true, then he's not going to Cleveland or any other land locked franchise IMO.

The whole delusional Laker Fan thing is BS JT. They are no different then any other fan base. Certainly no different then Dallas or SA fans IMO. The Lakers are going to get a couple of big time, Max contract guys. They can do that this year if they want or they can wait to see what next year brings. If they don't land Anthony, which I am not really a fan of anyway, then I hope they do let Gasol walk and clear the decks for younger talent. I hope they trade the Nash Contract, pick up some of the cash and are done with it by next year. Kobe may or may not stay. If the Lakers clear the roster, he has said that he may ask for a trade or elect to retire. His contract could be resolved or not. Either way, if they keep him this year, it doesn't hurt them cap wise and they can always spread his last year out over two years if they so choose in 2015. Might be in for another suck it year, don't know yet.

bah missed this above but:
its been widely reported the reason Phil isn't in LA is Jim didn't want to hire Jeanie's boyfriend.
it wasn't about Mitch who had won titles working with Phil previously.

 

[Rockport]

If LeMe goes back to Miami and Bosh follows, the Rockets are going to be the big losers. They must really be upset with the Mavericks. Kudos to Dallas for taking advantage of the LeMe fiasco.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

bah missed this above but:
its been widely reported the reason Phil isn't in LA is Jim didn't want to hire Jeanie's boyfriend.
it wasn't about Mitch who had won titles working with Phil previously.

I know that's been said and there might be something to that but I honestly believe that it's because Phil wanted to be part time coach and eventually, become the GM. Phil even said this in an interview several months back. I just don't believe that the Lakers ever wanted Phil to be GM over Kupchak. Perhaps it was a little of both, it's really hard to say.

 

[jterrell]

Even so, if they had CP3, minus Gasol and Kobe, that could have meant James and maybe Anthony? I don't know of any evidence to suggest that Odom was or was not using crack. I mean, it's certainly possible but if that's the case, then the League should have done something about it before hand. The Odom issues were very well known, long before that trade situation. I don't think you can put this on Laker Fans. That's not right.

The trade details were what they were. There are good trades and bad trades every day. The Lakers aren't getting saved or compensated for the Nash trade anytime soon. It was just a bad trade. If you want to say that the owners stepped in, I guess I would need to see proof of that, as I don't have any info on how much input the other owners had there. However, the point of the original post was that the League had no problem stepping in and killing a deal with the Lakers for CP3 but also had no problem gifting CP3 to the Clippers and Dan Sterling, knowing full well what kind of organization and owner he was. You don't see the double standard there? I don't think you can justify that. That's why the League and the Owners have no business being involved in these kinds of things. If you want to say that team A is now owned and managed by the NBA, then you hire a GM and staff to make decisions for that team but you don't allow the other Owners to make decisions because that puts other Franchise Owners at a significant disadvantage. Then, you compound the issue by giving CP3 to Sterling? Really?

I just don't see the wisdom in any of that.

Dan Gilbert wrote a letter (yes another) to Commish Stern after the proposed CP3 to Lakers trade was announced.
Easy to find via google but essentially it says we just had this CBA battle to protect small market teams and now this trade by an NBA owned team threatens to ship a superstar to a big market from a small market for pennies on the dollar again. Might as well contract the league to 6 franchises.

The Lakers fans are delusional. The media covering them makes it far worse.
As twitter has exposed me to many of their fans, writers and ESPN shills I assure you this is accurate.
Larry Coon is the smartest NBA fan I know and follows the Lakers but he is one man in an army of crazies.
BTW, I was a Laker fan myself as a kid watching Magic play the Celtics before there was a Mavs.
So I am merely noting reality with that fan base today.
Since many of their fans picked the team based on winning and stars they refuse to believe anything but having superstars or winning will occur.
If you don;t believe me search #LakerNation on twitter and I assure you in 10 mins you will understand.

The Clippers deal was made later and included younger players and multiple draft picks.
The NBA should have removed Sterling altogether as owner FAR earlier but the trade was perfectly acceptable as opposed to losing CP3 for nothing.
If any NBA team would have made a better offer that team would be pitching a fit.
None did. The Hornets still start a couple of those guys and they are all still very young.
The Clippers still haven't posed a serious title threat yet.
The league didn't send off CP3 to play with Kobe and D12 by shipping him to pair with Blake.

Lamar Odom info was out there which is why Dallas was able to trade for him for literally nothing but cap space.
It was well known he had depression issues and was struggling mentally. --a relative had died and he experienced a few other odd things.
He's never been in a right place since and was told by Dallas to just go home and keep his checks.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Dan Gilbert wrote a letter (yes another) to Commish Stern after the proposed CP3 to Lakers trade was announced.
Easy to find via google but essentially it says we just had this CBA battle to protect small market teams and now this trade by an NBA owned team threatens to ship a superstar to a big market from a small market for pennies on the dollar again. Might as well contract the league to 6 franchises.

The Lakers fans are delusional. The media covering them makes it far worse.
As twitter has exposed me to many of their fans, writers and ESPN shills I assure you this is accurate.
Larry Coon is the smartest NBA fan I know and follows the Lakers but he is one man in an army of crazies.
BTW, I was a Laker fan myself as a kid watching Magic play the Celtics before there was a Mavs.
So I am merely noting reality with that fan base today.
Since many of their fans picked the team based on winning and stars they refuse to believe anything but having superstars or winning will occur.
If you don;t believe me search #LakerNation on twitter and I assure you in 10 mins you will understand.

The Clippers deal was made later and included younger players and multiple draft picks.
The NBA should have removed Sterling altogether as owner FAR earlier but the trade was perfectly acceptable as opposed to losing CP3 for nothing.
If any NBA team would have made a better offer that team would be pitching a fit.
None did. The Hornets still start a couple of those guys and they are all still very young.
The Clippers still haven't posed a serious title threat yet.
The league didn't send off CP3 to play with Kobe and D12 by shipping him to pair with Blake.

Lamar Odom info was out there which is why Dallas was able to trade for him for literally nothing but cap space.
It was well known he had depression issues and was struggling mentally. --a relative had died and he experienced a few other odd things.
He's never been in a right place since and was told by Dallas to just go home and keep his checks.

I read that letter but honestly, the NBA did exactly what they went to War over. They allowed a Small Market team to lose their marquee player to a large market team.

The reality is that the League is stronger when Large Market, high profile teams are good. The league is better when The Celtics and the Lakers of the world are good. You can try to protect small market teams but you can't force players to stay in small markets. Financially, it's not in their best interests, unless you are LJ. Players are going to look at all of their potential financial earnings and make make decisions based on what's in their best interests. You can't make everything exactly equal. Not say that this is what you are recommending but I am pointing out that is just doesn't work. It would be like saying Texas teams can't take advantage of tax advantages in contracts the State of Texas offers as a resident. It would be stupid to try and do that. I just think the NBA did a poor job of regulating the CP3 deal all around. The Clippers deal was better for the Hornets, no question but I'm not sure that it was better for the League. New Orleans is a large market that didn't draw. Now the Hornets are back in a small market. Will be interesting to see how that plays out.

 

[jterrell]

The Laker fans are no different then any other fan. I don't think your clearing anything up here. Your simply making blanket statements about a fan base that have no real substance. Every team who is or was in the running for James and or Anthony are in that same state of mind because you have to be. If you have the slightest chance of getting either of those players, you go for it. You know that JT. To say that this is justification for Lakers fans being delusional is not accurate. Heck, all fan bases are delusional, by that criteria and to be honest, that's probably the truest statement of all. All of them are to a great extent. I don't know of one that is not.

The Coaching choices were driven by talent. It makes no sense to pay any coach a big time salary when you have nobody on the team. That's not smart business so to me, the Lakers were smart to do that. I don't think that's a negative for them. The DH12 deal was what it was. The Mavs would have done the same deal if they could have. It was a gamble that didn't pay off. I have no real issue with that. The Nash deal was also a gamble. However, I do believe that the Lakers deserve all they get for that deal. Had Nash worked out, it would have been a decent deal but I just don't think there was any way it could have. That was not a good decision, IMO, by the Lakers. Now, having said that, if they are allowed to sign CP3, the Nash deal probably never happens.

I don't really have a problem that they don't have a Coach. It's not like they won't have one soon enough. I don't really think it's that big of a deal but if you do, that's fine.

Now you are taking Laker apologies to the absurd.

YES, you need a coach when there is free agency going on. That is why EVERY other team has one.
Even when one is fired, one is quickly hired.
What players want to know when they sign is how much, what system and with what teammates.
Coaching very much matters.

You don't recruit Carmelo without a coach man. That's just silly.

The Lakers are ridiculously profitable.
Not paying a coach is POOR business because it costs A LOT of money when they lose.
Winning drives profits. Something good ownerships are very well aware of.

And you know as well as I Lakers fan are NOT equivalent to some other fan base in discussing possible stars.
They are assuming it is a done deal, that it will happen and retweeting images in lakers gear of their new all-star laden lineup.

One of the first pics of Randle is with the Lakers O'Brien trophies... that's be like Dallas shooing Zach Martin with the 5 Lombardis. Crazy.

 

[jterrell]

New Orleans is a small market. One of smallest in the NBA.
Hornets are now Pelicans but still in NO.

Miami is a small market and NBA has done fine with Miami, SA, Indy, OKC all winning.

Winning sells. See OKC.
This is a global game and market is really a thing of the last decade.

Celts and Lakers and teams with huge following help drive the game but that's not as much market based as fans are located globally.

The NBA owners as franchise holders of the Hornets did not want to create a superteam anywhere while taking back dregs.
That was the right move for them.

The number of true superstars that have changed teams is still in single digits. And those guys have left LA and other big markets as readily as they have joined them. Once a guy is determined to leave money on the table all bets are off and he can choose wherever he wants to go really.
Duncan could get paid more and play in any city. Same for Dirk. There's a dozen other guys in the same or similar boats.
Each star is his own person and can make his own choice.
The CBA is right to protect home team advantages in salary but that isn't a guarantee they keep the guy.
Maybe the NBA should have supplmental picks for lost free agents like the NFL.