NBA Free Agency

[jterrell]

Ball might be a Dennis Johnson type guy. I mean, Johnson was a much better Defensive Player coming into the league, probably not as good of a guy on the break but similar physically and both were very smart players at a very young age.

I don't know, guess we'll see.

Compton guy!
Interesting and outside the box thinking, but I think DJ was always considered a defensive stopper.
If Lonzo can defend like that... wow.
DJ didn't have Lonzo's vision.

I could see Lonzo as a Jason Kidd type with less speed but more height.
Passing maestro. A bit unnatural as a scorer.
Kidd was ~12 PPG, 5 RPG, 8 APG, 2 SPG as a rookie with overall shooting woes. I could see that for Lonzo.

Gonna be fun for Lakers fans to watch.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Remember this gem?

"I don't think Durant fits in GS either. Warriors lead the league in Assists but Assists to who? Curry and Thompson were the benefactors of this. The scoring is a two player deal in GS. Heck, even Green's production was a distant 3rd to those two and this guy shoots 49% from the field. If Durant were to go to GS, it would have to be a deal in which he has to give up shots IMO. I don't see Curry giving up the ball and Thompson is actually a better Three Point Shooter then Durant so why would you take the ball out of his hands? The thing that saves GS from the rest of the league is that they have two guys who can shoot the three with exceptional accuracy. If you change the offense and go away from that, then their size shows up and that's bad. They probably should have lost to OKC in the Conference Finals and it was specifically because OKC went big on them."

Or, this comedy...

"I feel like when you can't defend a position, you try and turn it around and act as if this was what you were trying to say all along. Yes, they are good, which is why I have been telling you over and over that they are the 1 and 2 options in the GS Offense and that GS would be stupid to change that. Which is why I have been telling you that the only way this works is if Durant is the 3rd option. Which is why I've been telling you that team assists don't indicate scoring balance or intimate more shots in the GS Offense for Durant.

I have asked you over and over if you understand why that is and you have not really answered me. You simply maintain that GS shares the ball and that will produce shots for him. How will this happen?"

Lool, smh.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Remember this gem?


Or, this comedy...


Lool, smh.

Not gonna lie I was curious to see how GS looked with Durant. However, in the face of a superstar driven coaching and schemeing are often overlooked. GS 2016-17 was a chemistry expiriment that went much better than Miami 2010-11

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Compton guy!
Interesting and outside the box thinking, but I think DJ was always considered a defensive stopper.
If Lonzo can defend like that... wow.
DJ didn't have Lonzo's vision.

I could see Lonzo as a Jason Kidd type with less speed but more height.
Passing maestro. A bit unnatural as a scorer.
Kidd was ~12 PPG, 5 RPG, 8 APG, 2 SPG as a rookie with overall shooting woes. I could see that for Lonzo.

Gonna be fun for Lakers fans to watch.

I agree, but, I think he was a very underated offensive player. As he developed, he improved his jump shot a lot and he was always a very good penetrator. Always took care of the ball. If I had a problem with his game, it might be that he was not opportunistic enough, in that regard. He would not take enough risk sometimes, IMO. I would not say that he didn't have Ball's vision. I think the better way to describe it is that he simply wouldn't allow himself to take the same risks and you can kinda understand that if you know his background coming up. He was never a guy anybody ever thought would make it in the NBA because of his athleticism. Because of that, he was taught by his Dad and his coaches to always take the high percentage pass/shot. Now, that's not a bad thing but it does kinda prevent you from taking a more risky, uptempo approach. You add to the fact that he played for three teams, the majority of his career, that relied on a post offense in Boston, Phoenix and Seattle and you kind see why that was not as big a part of his game. However, earlier in his career. you did see a little more of that open court passing ability. When he ran the break in Seattle with Jack Sikma, Gus Williams, "Downtown" Freddie Brown, Paul Silas and those guys, you could see he had the ability to play uptempo ball. Same thing later with Larry Nance and Walter Johnson in Phoenix. It's just that those teams were really post teams that would fast break on long rebounds or opportunistic fast break opportunities. At their core, all of them were really post offenses but he still was pretty good on the break. Later in Boston, he played with what, IMO, was the greatest front line in the history of the game so yeah, they didn't push the ball on the break.

I do see similarities with Kidd and he was actually the first one to come to mind but the more I thought about it, the more I thought DJ because I felt as if the Athletic projections were more similar. With Kidd, you had a guy who was really quicker and stronger, more powerful to the rim IMO. Still in all, I can see why people compare the two. I just think that Kidd was different athletically.

Long winded post so sorry for that and I can't say my recollection is 100% accurate, it was a long time ago, LOL..... Anyway, that was what I was thinking when I threw out DJ.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Remember this gem?


Or, this comedy...


Lool, smh.

So yeah, I'm glad you posted this. Show me where, in either of those posts, I make any kind of statement that even remotely resembles your claims.

So we are clear, you claim I made the following statements:

I remember ABQCowboy claiming it wouldn't work for the Dubs last year when Durant came aboard around this time last year.

Show me where I make that statement in either of those two posts. I never said it wouldn't work and you know it. I said they run the risk of it not working because of the way they run the three ball offense, I said they run the risk of losing key players down the line and I said that it could backfire. For the record, they did not shoot the three as well as they did the year they won it all, there is a very good chance that they will end up losing key players in the near future and the jury is still out, as to how well this trade works out. They won a championship and that's a good thing but they could have just as easily won without making that trade IMO.

The Jury, IMO, is still out as to how good a move this ends up being. I will say it again, they have been much better then I thought they would be with Durant but don't go around trying to say I said one thing or another just so that you can try and further a discussion with someone else. That aint cool.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

So yeah, I'm glad you posted this. Show me where, in either of those posts, I make any kind of statement that even remotely resembles your claims.

So we are clear, you claim I made the following statements:



Show me where I make that statement in either of those two posts. I never said it wouldn't work and you know it. I said they run the risk of it not working because of the way they run the three ball offense, I said they run the risk of losing key players down the line and I said that it could backfire. For the record, they did not shoot the three as well as they did the year they won it all, there is a very good chance that they will end up losing key players in the near future and the jury is still out, as to how well this trade works out. They won a championship and that's a good thing but they could have just as easily won without making that trade IMO.

The Jury, IMO, is still out as to how good a move this ends up being. I will say it again, they have been much better then I thought they would be with Durant but don't go around trying to say I said one thing or another just so that you can try and further a discussion with someone else. That aint cool.

Maybe you looked right past your first sentence or simply trying to play coy now...

"I don't think Durant fits in GS either" and you then go on forwarding the most hilariously misinformed argument about not enough shots, Durant supposedly playing as the 3rd option, et cetera.

The arguments were horrendous a year ago and have only grown worse in the light of recent events.

We actually go back point-for-point and see how you were wrong if you'd like.

I like the way you ended it posing the rhetorical question you thought had no answer: "You simply maintain that GS shares the ball and that will produce shots for him. How will this happen?"

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Maybe you looked right past your first sentence or simply trying to play coy now...

"I don't think Durant fits in GS either" and you then go on forwarding the most hilariously misinformed argument about not enough shots, Durant supposedly playing as the 3rd option, et cetera.

The arguments were horrendous a year ago and have only grown worse in the light of recent events.

We actually go back point-for-point and see how you were wrong if you'd like.

I like the way you ended it posing the rhetorical question you thought had no answer: "You simply maintain that GS shares the ball and that will produce shots for him. How will this happen?"

OK, I'll play. What, exactly, do you think my first sentence says? Quote it and explain how it translates into me saying GS can't be successful, as a definitive statement?

All of what I said in that thread is true. Somebody had to lose shots and that absolutely happened with GS. Their 3 point percentage was not as good, they are going to lose key players IMO. None of what I said was wrong. Your story, you tell it but at least be honest about it.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

You said you didn't think Durant fit, yet as afar as the playoffs go, they dominated unlike they did the pre season. 9 loses vs 1. I don't think anyone thought that everyone's numbers would stay the same, but I don't see how anyone can say Durant did not fit.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You said you didn't think Durant fit, yet as afar as the playoffs go, they dominated unlike they did the pre season. 9 loses vs 1. I don't think anyone thought that everyone's numbers would stay the same, but I don't see how anyone can say Durant did not fit.

I agree, I did say that and I did believe that but that's different then saying that it 100% won't work or that they would 100% not be successful. The discussion was how the addition of Durant would work and how it might effect the team chemistry on the whole. I never said that it absolutely would not work. Nobody could know if it would work or not, at the time.

 

[John813]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20124505/kyrie-irving-seeking-trade-cleveland-cavaliers

Kyrie Irving is ready to end his run with the Cleveland Cavaliers, as league sources told ESPN that the guard has asked the team to trade him.

The request came last week and was made to Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Irving has expressed that he wants to play in a situation where he can be more of a focal point and that he no longer wants to play alongside LeBron James, sources said.

 

[Silver Surfer]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20124505/kyrie-irving-seeking-trade-cleveland-cavaliers

Kyrie Irving is ready to end his run with the Cleveland Cavaliers, as league sources told ESPN that the guard has asked the team to trade him.

The request came last week and was made to Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Irving has expressed that he wants to play in a situation where he can be more of a focal point and that he no longer wants to play alongside LeBron James, sources said.

He should just stay put. LeBron will be gone next year so he'll have the Cavs all to himself.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20124505/kyrie-irving-seeking-trade-cleveland-cavaliers

Kyrie Irving is ready to end his run with the Cleveland Cavaliers, as league sources told ESPN that the guard has asked the team to trade him.

The request came last week and was made to Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Irving has expressed that he wants to play in a situation where he can be more of a focal point and that he no longer wants to play alongside LeBron James, sources said.

That's a surprise. I think he's a great second fiddle. He's not someone you build a team around necessarily but he really shines when he has someone next to him. Basically the opposite of Kevin Love. He's also clutch and a proven winner. I find this puzzling. I can't recall any teammate of Jordan's ever (correct me if I'm wrong) demanding a trade, even when they weren't winning. LeBron strikes me as a good guy and seems to make players around him better. I can't imagine why someone wouldn't want to play next to him unless 1) LeBron isn't a good teammate, 2) the player requesting a trade is insecure of being a second fiddle, or 3) the player requesting a trade thinks he can go to a better situation to win (which in this case is doubtful since no team can trade for a PG right now and beat Golden State).

 

[65fastback2plus2]

He should just stay put. LeBron will be gone next year so he'll have the Cavs all to himself.

even more of a reason to want out now lol

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Yea, suffering through the Isiah Thomas years would be sooooo worth it, if we can land Irving. Obviously any deal involving Porzingis would be a no, but I would love to see those two on the pick and roll.

 

[Trouty]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20124505/kyrie-irving-seeking-trade-cleveland-cavaliers

Kyrie Irving is ready to end his run with the Cleveland Cavaliers, as league sources told ESPN that the guard has asked the team to trade him.

The request came last week and was made to Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Irving has expressed that he wants to play in a situation where he can be more of a focal point and that he no longer wants to play alongside LeBron James, sources said.

This was shocking news when I heard it. r/NBA is going cray cray since this news broke, John.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

OK, I'll play. What, exactly, do you think my first sentence says? Quote it and explain how it translates into me saying GS can't be successful, as a definitive statement?

All of what I said in that thread is true. Somebody had to lose shots and that absolutely happened with GS. Their 3 point percentage was not as good, they are going to lose key players IMO. None of what I said was wrong. Your story, you tell it but at least be honest about it.

Are you seriously going to play coy?

When you start a sequence of thought with "I don't think Durant fits in GS [...]" and THEN go into detail of your reasoning why you think he doesn't fit, you're making an argument of why it wouldn't work.

But since you want to play, lets break down your reasoning:

Warriors lead the league in Assists but Assists to who? Curry and Thompson were the benefactors of this. The scoring is a two player deal in GS.

This is just a ridiculous take. Every team in the league has 1-2 scorers on their team that account for the majority of the scoring. I'm not sure why you thought this was a profound point? Of course Curry and Thompson were the benefactors of a lot of those assists; they're the top scorers on the team, smh.

This is just absurd analysis. It's like arguing Dallas isn't really a good rushing team because Zeke the only one benefitting from it.

If Durant were to go to GS, it would have to be a deal in which he has to give up shots IMO. I don't see Curry giving up the ball and Thompson is actually a better Three Point Shooter then Durant so why would you take the ball out of his hands?

Oh noez! How will it work?

It worked exactly as I said it would. The Dubs offense is predicated on moving the ball; passing up good shots, for better shots. Your entire premise of "Curry and Thompson won't give up shots" was faulty and simplistic. Curry's shots-per-game went down by 2, Thompson's remained the same and Durant's went down from 20 per game in OKC to 16 with the Warriors. Why? Because he's got two other competent scorers along side of him. Ask Durant if he cares about those four extra shots per game now?

The thing that saves GS from the rest of the league is that they have two guys who can shoot the three with exceptional accuracy. If you change the offense and go away from that, then their size shows up and that's bad.

How'd that prediction work out for you?

 

[darthseinfeld]

Word is the Cavs and Knicks are working on a 3 team deal with Phoenix. Not sure what the peices are but I think the Knicks get Irving, Cavs get Anthony and Bledsoe and not sure what Phoenix gets. Maybe Love but im not sure. Dont know if they can add Anthony and Bledsoe without moving Love.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Are you seriously going to play coy?

When you start a sequence of thought with "I don't think Durant fits in GS [...]" and THEN go into detail of your reasoning why you think he doesn't fit, you're making an argument of why it wouldn't work.

But since you want to play, lets break down your reasoning:


This is just a ridiculous take. Every team in the league has 1-2 scorers on their team that account for the majority of the scoring. I'm not sure why you thought this was a profound point? Of course Curry and Thompson were the benefactors of a lot of those assists; they're the top scorers on the team, smh.

This is just absurd analysis. It's like arguing Dallas isn't really a good rushing team because Zeke the only one benefitting from it.



Oh noez! How will it work?

It worked exactly as I said it would. The Dubs offense is predicated on moving the ball; passing up good shots, for better shots. Your entire premise of "Curry and Thompson won't give up shots" was faulty and simplistic. Curry's shots-per-game went down by 2, Thompson's remained the same and Durant's went down from 20 per game in OKC to 16 with the Warriors. Why? Because he's got two other competent scorers along side of him. Ask Durant if he cares about those four extra shots per game now?



How'd that prediction work out for you?

You know what, you claimed I said that it would never work. I asked you to show me where I made that claim. To this point, nothing you have posted supports your claim. Never, ever, did I make that claim. All of this, what you are posting now is supposition. I do not dispute what I said in that conversation. I did not think it would work out well for them. I was wrong, they did win a championship but now, I am not convinced that they couldn't have done that without Duran. Time will tell if this ends up being a good move or not. But I never said there was no chance it would work and once again, that was the claim you made. That was what you said, I said. That was a lie, by you, to support your argument with someone else. That's the truth, regardless of if you like it or not. Don't use me to win an argument with somebody else. If your argument is strong enough to stand, then you don't need me, you can support it on your own.

If you can't produce an quote that proves I said GS will fail or GS can't be successful, then there is no point in continuing here.

If you are trying to say that I thought there was a chance it wouldn't work, that's true.

If you are trying to say that I thought it was a poor fit, that's true. I did think that.

If you are trying to say that I said it would never work, 100%, that's a lie. I never said that.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Yea, suffering through the Isiah Thomas years would be sooooo worth it, if we can land Irving. Obviously any deal involving Porzingis would be a no, but I would love to see those two on the pick and roll.

NY would be a great position pulling the trigger on Kyrie deal soon because they would be in a buyers market. Throwing teams out there didnt help the Cavs value wise.

I think the alleged Melo/Bledsoe deal might be best for Cleveland because while Bledoe has never been on the banana boat, he is tight with Lebron. If Melo can intergrate with Lebron and thrive with less usage, that team still wins the East and playing with two close friends could have Lebron finishing his career out in Cleveland. It makes the post Lebron Cavs utterly desolate though.

Im honestly trying to wrap my head around the possibility of NY getting Kyrie while just giving up Melo. I could see them sending Hermangomez to Cleveland. I think Kyrie, Love, Bledsoe, Anthony are close salary wise

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

You know what, you claimed I said that it would never work. I asked you to show me where I made that claim. To this point, nothing you have posted supports your claim. Never, ever, did I make that claim. All of this, what you are posting now is supposition. I do not dispute what I said in that conversation. I did not think it would work out well for them. I was wrong, they did win a championship but now, I am not convinced that they couldn't have done that without Duran. Time will tell if this ends up being a good move or not. But I never said there was no chance it would work and once again, that was the claim you made. That was what you said, I said. That was a lie, by you, to support your argument with someone else. That's the truth, regardless of if you like it or not. Don't use me to win an argument with somebody else. If your argument is strong enough to stand, then you don't need me, you can support it on your own.

If you can't produce an quote that proves I said GS will fail or GS can't be successful, then there is no point in continuing here.

If you are trying to say that I thought there was a chance it wouldn't work, that's true.

If you are trying to say that I thought it was a poor fit, that's true. I did think that.

If you are trying to say that I said it would never work, 100%, that's a lie. I never said that.

Lol, "time will tell if this ends up a good move or not."

Congrats, your honor has been restored on a technicality because you didn't say verbatim "I, ABQCOWBOY 100% do not believe this will work."

Never mind all the ridiculous arguments you made effectively arguing why it wouldn't work. Let's just act like that wasn't the point.

I'm trying to say your analysis was oversimplified nonsense then and utter comedy now. Do you dispute that?