NBA Offseason

[jterrell]

GMs need to grow a set of balls...As in the Thunder's case w/ George....he just signed last year for 4 years....What is he gonna do if they didn't trade him? Sit out? Fine...then the Thunder...I imagine would have grounds to fine him. I'm still not sure Presti played this right 3 days later...I mean this trade basically blew this team up...and it wasn't like they didn't have a chance. The 2020 season was gonna be wide open for everyone.

OKC was held over a barrel anyway.
Staring a huge luxury tax payements and a hard ceiling.
They went for it big time and got PG13 and Carmelo but when you do that the window is short.
They really built that team terribly around Russ and PG13. It was like a 90s team instead of modern movement based w good shooting.
So they might well have been relieved for the eject button PG13 pushed.

Treadmill of mediocrity is a fan base killer.
Rebuilding and tanking appears to be in near future and can be survived.
All those picks don't have to even be drafted.
They can tank a couple years then use those future picks as ammo to add a star around a reconstituted team.
And in tanking they can rebuild the team from scratch including a new coach which I think they badly need.

 

[John813]

I can't see Riley giving up all three of Winslow, Herro and Bam for RW.

Sure, 2 of the 3 haven't shown star ability and Herro isn't even signed yet.
Could see Winslow and Herro moved, but I think Miami would want to keep Bam. And then ship off their remaining eligible firsts till 2030 lol plus cap dumps to make it work

Guess it'll depend on who would possibly blink first and how many true suitors there are for RW.
My guess is Riley wants to win in the next couple of years so getting Westbrook would help their chances.

 

[jterrell]

I can't see Riley giving up all three of Winslow, Herro and Bam for RW.

Sure, 2 of the 3 haven't shown star ability and Herro isn't even signed yet.
Could see Winslow and Herro moved, but I think Miami would want to keep Bam. And then ship off their remaining eligible firsts till 2030 lol plus cap dumps to make it work

Guess it'll depend on who would possibly blink first and how many true suitors there are for RW.
My guess is Riley wants to win in the next couple of years so getting Westbrook would help their chances.

If he doesn't wanna move young guys he doesn't have much OKC wants.
OKC got a zillion picks for PG13 so they really need young players more than picks.
They can play them heavy minutes to develop them and organically tank.

MIA has to decide if they are all in or patient. You don't go get Russ to wait on kids 2-3 year away from being good.
MIA has talked up Dragic but they really don't want that dude starting and he makes 19M. He likely has some value to a winning org at the trade deadline but it's not gonna be much if he isn't playing and getting shots up.

Now we are in weird timing area where everyone wants ot max out on their assets while trying to steal what they want for pennies on the dollar.
Mavs like Dragic but view freeing up 19M of cap space for someone as far more valuable than a 1 year stopgap player.
MIA might come around on that idea if that cap space makes Russ work.

OKC has to badly want to come off of tax threshold and they need to move more than just Russ to do so given salary matching requirements.
So they need multiple trades and that likely means DA has to be involved somehow.
OKC has Gallo whom DAL likes as a starter but again it's a 1 year deal at a high price so someone has to eat Courtney Lee in that swap. 8m less salary for Lee which is about 16M less for OKC because of tax.

So end of day OKC wants cap relief and young-uns plus any picks they can get.

Mavs want a solid starter and to be tipped for providing cap space/trade exception money.

MIA has to want Russ and being below hard cap bad enough to pull the trigger or it all fizzles.

 

[Floatyworm]

OKC was held over a barrel anyway.
Staring a huge luxury tax payements and a hard ceiling.
They went for it big time and got PG13 and Carmelo but when you do that the window is short.
They really built that team terribly around Russ and PG13. It was like a 90s team instead of modern movement based w good shooting.
So they might well have been relieved for the eject button PG13 pushed.

Treadmill of mediocrity is a fan base killer.
Rebuilding and tanking appears to be in near future and can be survived.
All those picks don't have to even be drafted.
They can tank a couple years then use those future picks as ammo to add a star around a reconstituted team.
And in tanking they can rebuild the team from scratch including a new coach which I think they badly need.

Agree on all of that...Never been a big Billy Donovan fan. He seems to do very little during the games. Rarely do you see him diagram x's and o's...

And just saw they traded Grant to Denver for a #1 pick in 2020. Looks like the full rebuild is on now...And w/ that trade..they just about got out of salary cap penalty.

I got a feeling they may hang on to Westbrook until the Knicks can start trading peices...come December 15th. Ride this thing out to see if they can compete w/ what they got.

I don't know...I mean if you have started the rebuild process...you might as well go full fire sale...I can see Adams being in play as well...maybe even Gallinari.

 

[Floatyworm]

I can't see Riley giving up all three of Winslow, Herro and Bam for RW.

Sure, 2 of the 3 haven't shown star ability and Herro isn't even signed yet.
Could see Winslow and Herro moved, but I think Miami would want to keep Bam. And then ship off their remaining eligible firsts till 2030 lol plus cap dumps to make it work

Guess it'll depend on who would possibly blink first and how many true suitors there are for RW.
My guess is Riley wants to win in the next couple of years so getting Westbrook would help their chances.

Funny I haven't really followed the NBA for years...but this George trade sure has sucked me back in to all the rules the league has pertaining to the salary cap / trade rules...can't trade consecutive #1's...can only trade #1's up to 7 years out.

Anyway...As a OKC fan....the only 2 guys I'd be interested in is Waiters and Winslow.

We already own Miami's 2021 1st...and 2023 (protected)...perhaps have them take off the protection in 2023....and throw in #1's in 2025...(unprotected)

And even then...I don't know if that is enough. But then again you got to consider...Miami is taking an albatross of a contract off your hands...that you don't really want on the books anymore in a rebuild.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You were very wrong about this and provided no real source data but want others to meet bars you don't.
Its sophistry.

KL chose LAC because he has the best situation as a favorite and a full roster that isn't super old (TOR) or 2 players deep.
You just blew off KL's QUOTE based on nonsense "sources" and are asking people for dissertations.

KL left ~221M in SA for a possible ~190M in TOR for the ultimate ~141in LAC... It was never about money; tax or otherwise but his best situation.
He's a title favorite now again on a 3rd team as it's undisputed leader.
He gets to battle his biggest rival in the same building with his hand-selected running mate.

The Lakers need a real GM, like the guy they refused to hire back, Jerry West.
Every possible advantage is fumbled away and has been for almost a decade now.

Very wrong about what? About posting an article that said he would be coming to Cali because of possible tax implications? I don't see it but your story, you tell it.

 

[jterrell]

Agree on all of that...Never been a big Billy Donovan fan. He seems to do very little during the games. Rarely do you see him diagram x's and o's...

And just saw they traded Grant to Denver for a #1 pick in 2020. Looks like the full rebuild is on now...And w/ that trade..they just about got out of salary cap penalty.

I got a feeling they may hang on to Westbrook until the Knicks can start trading peices...come December 15th. Ride this thing out to see if they can compete w/ what they got.

I don't know...I mean if you have started the rebuild process...you might as well go full fire sale...I can see Adams being in play as well...maybe even Gallinari.

Sounds like they will let Westbrooik's agent do a lot of the heavy lifting.
Find a team that has assets then construct a trade.
Keeping him they aren't likely tanking which woulkdn't really jive with a full rebuild so I think they'd prefer this move fast but options are limited until December.

 

[erod]

Why would anyone follow this league anymore?

Can you imagine if Zeke just said, "hey, I'm going to play in Washington, and I'm forcing all my all my Buckeye teammates there, too."

And there's nothing the franchises can do to stop him.

The players now run the NBA. The coaches have ZERO power, and the owners are completely powerless.

I already blew it off for the most part. Now I couldn't possibly care less about it.

 

[Floatyworm]

Why would anyone follow this league anymore?

Can you imagine if Zeke just said, "hey, I'm going to play in Washington, and I'm forcing all my all my Buckeye teammates there, too."

And there's nothing the franchises can do to stop him.

The players now run the NBA. The coaches have ZERO power, and the owners are completely powerless.

I already blew it off for the most part. Now I couldn't possibly care less about it.

Funny you mentioned this...because I've felt the same way for years. Been a fan of Seattle/OKC..they had a good run...and now are completely getting blown up. But the point I was gonna make was this. It's hard to follow the NBA. You don't really know the players being drafted. There are so many rules regarding trades/ free agency/ luxery tax..that it's hard to make deals.

I just hope what has happened in the NBA doesn't happen in the NFL. So a free agent like Elliott can round up his buddies that are under contract...and force their way to a team like the Jets that have a bunch of cap space. Scary thing is....seems like the NFL is headed that way....since it started to allow teams to rollover unused cap space to the following year.

 

[Rockport]

Why would anyone follow this league anymore?

Can you imagine if Zeke just said, "hey, I'm going to play in Washington, and I'm forcing all my all my Buckeye teammates there, too."

And there's nothing the franchises can do to stop him.

The players now run the NBA. The coaches have ZERO power, and the owners are completely powerless.

I already blew it off for the most part. Now I couldn't possibly care less about it.

Yet you’re here whining about it

 

[erod]

Funny you mentioned this...because I've felt the same way for years. Been a fan of Seattle/OKC..they had a good run...and now are completely getting blown up. But the point I was gonna make was this. It's hard to follow the NBA. You don't really know the players being drafted. There are so many rules regarding trades/ free agency/ luxery tax..that it's hard to make deals.

I just hope what has happened in the NBA doesn't happen in the NFL. So a free agent like Elliott can round up his buddies that are under contract...and force their way to a team like the Jets that have a bunch of cap space. Scary thing is....seems like the NFL is headed that way....since it started to allow teams to rollover unused cap space to the following year.

Odell Beckham just forced the Giants' hand. Let's hope that is a one off deal.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Funny I haven't really followed the NBA for years...but this George trade sure has sucked me back in to all the rules the league has pertaining to the salary cap / trade rules...can't trade consecutive #1's...can only trade #1's up to 7 years out.

Anyway...As a OKC fan....the only 2 guys I'd be interested in is Waiters and Winslow.

We already own Miami's 2021 1st...and 2023 (protected)...perhaps have them take off the protection in 2023....and throw in #1's in 2025...(unprotected)

And even then...I don't know if that is enough. But then again you got to consider...Miami is taking an albatross of a contract off your hands...that you don't really want on the books anymore in a rebuild.

2023 I believe is the new guess on when there can be a "double draft", with HS players being eligible again.

 

[darthseinfeld]

They'd need to send Dragic to DAL and use DAL cap space/trade exception IMHO.
Issue is DAL has held out on its' cap space like it is pure gold so likely want to be tipped for taking Dragic.

A trade that works numbers wise....

MIA gets:
Russ
R2 from DAL

OKC gets:
Winslow
Courtney Lee(DAL)
Herro
Bam A

DAL gets:
Dragic
DJJ
R1 from OKC (Lakers in 2020 perhaps protected)

In 2nd deal DAL gets Gallo from OKC for Justin Jackson.
That would put OKC below tax apron and re-make them into a younger/cheaper team.
They could flip assets off for picks and such as expirings and tank.
They'd likely stretch waive at least one player.

I think this would benefit all 3 teams:
MIA ends up with a big 2. Wade might even come back for another season on vet min.

OKC gets below tax threshold and gets younger/cheaper/deeper.

DAL gets a mentor to Luka and a young wing plus offloads guys they don't love to get a proven 3PT shooter in Gallo.
All Euro team is built lol.

Ive heard some Dragic to Dallas rumors. I think he would be a great short term get. Especially with him and Luka being from Slovenia. I thinks a playoff team in 2019

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Can you imagine if Zeke just said, "hey, I'm going to play in Washington, and I'm forcing all my all my Buckeye teammates there, too."

And there's nothing the franchises can do to stop him.

Hmm..except that's not exactly what's going on. Maybe you don't watch it because you don't understand it. That would make more sense.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Hmm..except that's not exactly what's going on. Maybe you don't watch it because you don't understand it. That would make more sense.

You simply can't look at one sport and expect it to be like another one in how the organizations run. If you dont enjoy, don't watch. NBA is a very healthy league financially. They dont need or desire to be like the NFL

As a big fan of both, Im glad they so different. The NBA would lose appeal to me if it was patterned after the NFL

 

[Johnny23]

Trades in the NBA are far more frequent than in the NFL. It's not that complicated guys you need the players cap hits to match up or not force you to go over. That's were multiple team trades come in.

Trading expiring contracts to get assets immediately and in the future. It's always interesting to see who goes were come the all Star break and the playoffs push mid February.

Marc Gasol to Toronto was a clutch trade deadline move for the Raptors.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Trades in the NBA are far more frequent than in the NFL. It's not that complicated guys you need the players cap hits to match up or not force you to go over. That's were multiple team trades come in.

Trading expiring contracts to get assets immediately and in the future. It's always interesting to see who goes were come the all Star break and the playoffs push mid February.

Marc Gasol to Toronto was a clutch trade deadline move for the Raptors.

As a C's I knew any Finals was officially cooked when Toronto made that trade. I thought before if we gelled before the playoffs we had a chance. After they landed Gasol, they were just too good

 

[jterrell]

Funny you mentioned this...because I've felt the same way for years. Been a fan of Seattle/OKC..they had a good run...and now are completely getting blown up. But the point I was gonna make was this. It's hard to follow the NBA. You don't really know the players being drafted. There are so many rules regarding trades/ free agency/ luxery tax..that it's hard to make deals.

I just hope what has happened in the NBA doesn't happen in the NFL. So a free agent like Elliott can round up his buddies that are under contract...and force their way to a team like the Jets that have a bunch of cap space. Scary thing is....seems like the NFL is headed that way....since it started to allow teams to rollover unused cap space to the following year.

The NFL's franchise tag prevents this but it will be interesting to see if it is kept.

Reality is life in basketball has always been like this. High School and college are rife with it. AAU is NOTHING but it.
Guys team up as you only need 2-3 guys then a supporting cast for a quality team.

In football it very much about the QB and QBs simply aren't allowed to get away. And top QBs cost so much that their teams generally do not have money with the hard cap to go add stars when they come available.
The NFL off-season is heinously boring compared to the NBA but the regular season much more compelling because the rarity of games means you never miss a second without dread.

 

[jterrell]

Ive heard some Dragic to Dallas rumors. I think he would be a great short term get. Especially with him and Luka being from Slovenia. I thinks a playoff team in 2019

The West is soooo deep and I don't think Dragic has much left but spot up shooting. SO I def don ot see DAL making the playoffs short of Luka and KP being front line All-Stars .
Think window is 1 more year away for playoffs in this nasty West and contending status is more years 2-5. Those guys are both < 25.

Dallas and LAL are doing the same thing. Making their point forwards the actual named point guards.
Luka is a LBJ disciple and those teams both being out for Danny Green to play that 2 guard and provide cover for quicker guards makes total sense now.
Dragic def doesn't help there and he'd enter a crowded back court so DAL really would like him more for what he brings in way of intangibles and tipped resources.

Mavs fans are up in arms that FA went down without any real name signees but fans aren't generally honest with themselves about where things started and where they stand.
DAL was determined to find a good defensive 2G who doesn't need the ball and thus Delon Wright will get that job now after Green got 15M from LAL(DAL offered 12m).
DAL would like another top 12 3PT FG% guy but Seth Curry finished 3rd last year at 45%.
That's why DAL would really like Gallo (Gallinari) who finished 5th at 43.3% but has always been injured for swaths of seasons more than Dragic IMHO.
DAL has some weird options here that will include trying to keep their traded player exceptions in part of whole so they can eat significant cap space at the deadline once more teams are taniking.

DAL and LAL are very similar teams for this season tbh with the 3 becoming a 1 and the 4 being the other star around really questionable roster.
DAL has far more depth and LAL has better starters but I expect those 2 to run a lot of the same sets around their big 2 man games.

 

[uvaballa]

I agree with this, Dolan made the right decision not wanting to give Durant a max contract over concerns with his long term health

Dolan makes right decision is not something you hear very often. Now he has a young and not very good team which has been the case for a very long time.