New Game Called Find Jeff Heath

[Whirlwin]

Cowboys would say they have Jeff Heath and Kavon Frazier as that guy.

They just don't value strong safeties.

Yeah I'm not sure why but I think you're right. Or some way they feel that way about defensive tackles I believe

 

[CATCH17]

Yeah I'm not sure why but I think you're right. Or some way they feel that way about defensive tackles I believe

The whole league is that way.

Derwin James went in the 20's on draft day and he was one of the best players in that draft.

 

[Sydla]

Say what you want but Heath didn't get washed every run, that's ridiculous.

I mean that's hyperbole and if you want to harp on that comment, it's because one can't argue the true underlying issue, which is........... Heath can't really tackle and is a mediocre, at best, starting SS in this league.

 

[CATCH17]

I mean that's hyperbole and if you want to harp on that comment, it's because one can't argue the true underlying issue, which is........... Heath can't really tackle and is a mediocre, at best, starting SS in this league.

People better get used to it because with the salary cap that is a position Dallas is not going to give a lot of money too.

I think the hope would be that Donovan Wilson develops into something.

 

[ClappingCarrot]

Listened to Heath on NFL Radio for about 15 minutes this morning. It was an otherwise boring interview.

Charlie Weis specifically asked him what he planned to do on his day off and he indicated he was heading into the facility for treatment. I knew he had a thigh bruise per Archer, but it sounds like he has several things ailing him. Probably to be expected in week 1 as the body adjusts to the rigors of the season. We are already thin at safety so I wonder if Jerry and Stephen are looking at what's out there as a precaution.

 

[Sydla]

Is Wilson week to week?

 

[Future]

You can deny it all you want, but he was not very good in the run game.

I've said it multiple times, but the defense some people mount for such an average player is amazing to me.

He's not a quality starting S in this league. You ask around the league where the weak point is on the Cowboys defense, I guarantee the first place they will start is likely S and Heath in particular.

Which one of these was he "washed?" He's in the gap he's supposed to be on every play. There is no "good angle" to take against Saquon in the first play, because he's untouched with all kinds of room. No safety in the league does anything else. If you're thinking that he's just going to take on and shed a blocker to make a tackle otherwise, expectations are wrong. He's not a linebacker. There's a lot of other guys not getting into their gaps or missing tackles though.


I don't think he's particularly good, he's just not nearly as bad as all the whining about him would suggest.

 

[J-man]

PFF hates Heath.

I hate PFF, seriously they are trash! I never read their stuff, it's just terrible BS.

 

[Sydla]

Which one of these was he "washed?" He's in the gap he's supposed to be on every play. There is no "good angle" to take against Saquon in the first play, because he's untouched with all kinds of room. No safety in the league does anything else. If you're thinking that he's just going to take on and shed a blocker to make a tackle otherwise, expectations are wrong. He's not a linebacker. There's a lot of other guys not getting into their gaps or missing tackles though.


I don't think he's particularly good, he's just not nearly as bad as all the whining about him would suggest.

So you don't think he's particularly good but you have a problem with the whining about him?

People are whining that he's not particularly good (I mean ignore the hyperbole of people saying he's the worst S ever, and just grasp the underlying point which is he is not a quality starting SS, which you seem to agree with).

So it seems you are getting outraged over the Heath criticism for no reason.

 

[Future]

So you don't think he's particularly good but you have a problem with the whining about him?

People are whining that he's not particularly good (I mean ignore the hyperbole of people saying he's the worst S ever, and just grasp the underlying point which is he is not a quality starting SS, which you seem to agree with).

So it seems you are getting outraged over the Heath criticism for no reason.

No, people are saying that he's outright terrible and that he gets "washed every play." It becomes whining when it is every week.

Define quality. He's the same as at least a dozen other starting safeties in the league.

I'm not outraged, and I don't mind criticism. I get annoyed by hyperbole that is, at best, inaccurate. For instance, I get annoyed when there are 4 plays presented right in front of people and, instead of pointing out the specifics in how Heath was bad, they just deflect and move the conversation into a different direction. There's no real discussion about him.

 

[Sydla]

No, people are saying that he's outright terrible and that he gets "washed every play." It becomes whining when it is every week.

Define quality. He's the same as at least a dozen other starting safeties in the league.

I'm not outraged, and I don't mind criticism. I get annoyed by hyperbole that is, at best, inaccurate. For instance, I get annoyed when there are 4 plays presented right in front of people and, instead of pointing out the specifics in how Heath was bad, they just deflect and move the conversation into a different direction. There's no real discussion about him.

I mean this is a bizarre hill to die on IMO. Terrible. Not particular good. Bad. In the realm of this discussion, it's all basically the same thing. Heath is just not a quality starting SS.

The hair splitting on the semantics of the descriptions of his play as either "not particularly good" or "terrible" is bizarre.

He's a bottom third of the league starting safety.

 

[glimmerman]

Our Defense played bad Sunday. No one wrapping up tackles. Had a sack on sheli and didn’t wrap him up. We will get better.

 

[Future]

I mean this is a bizarre hill to die on IMO. Terrible. Not particular good. Bad. In the realm of this discussion, it's all basically the same thing. Heath is just not a quality starting SS.

The hair splitting on the semantics of the descriptions of his play as either "not particularly good" or "terrible" is bizarre.

He's a bottom third of the league starting safety.

There is a colossal difference between "not particularly good" and "terrible." The former means average and the latter means active detriment to your team.

I don't care about the descriptions, anyways. What's annoying is that the critiques of his play is all hyperbole, and not based on, you know, actual plays. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge the 4 plays is exactly my point.

This is where defining quality matters. Once you get outside the top 7-8 SS, there's really not much difference in quality. Is Heath a gamebreaker, no. Is he detrimental, no. In today's NFL, that makes him an average SS, in line with about 20 other guys.

 

[G2]

I mean that's hyperbole and if you want to harp on that comment, it's because one can't argue the true underlying issue, which is........... Heath can't really tackle and is a mediocre, at best, starting SS in this league.

I agree he's not all World or even above average, but he also shouldn't be blamed for the front 7 missing tackles.
Also, he's put away games with goal line tackles, so the notion he can't tackle is just false. Kind of a lazy take.

 

[Sydla]

There is a colossal difference between "not particularly good" and "terrible." The former means average and the latter means active detriment to your team.

I don't care about the descriptions, anyways. What's annoying is that the critiques of his play is all hyperbole, and not based on, you know, actual plays. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge the 4 plays is exactly my point.

This is where defining quality matters. Once you get outside the top 7-8 SS, there's really not much difference in quality. Is Heath a gamebreaker, no. Is he detrimental, no. In today's NFL, that makes him an average SS, in line with about 20 other guys.

There really isn't that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. I mean I get why you want to say there is because you bizarrely want to defend a guy that you yourself doesn't even think is all that good.

You are all over the place. He's not particularly good but he's not detrimental and a league average SS.

I see what's happening here. You struggle to criticize Heath but on the otherhand you also know it's kind of silly to try to defend him either. So you get things like "he's not particularly good" but then say he's an average safety, etc. You are waffling.

He is a bottom third SS in this league. His inability to make consistent tackles, a big responsibility of a SS in today's NFL, is a big reason why.

 

[Sydla]

I agree he's not all World or even above average, but he also shouldn't be blamed for the front 7 missing tackles.
Also, he's put away games with goal line tackles, so the notion he can't tackle is just false. Kind of a lazy take.

He was one of the worst safeties the last two seasons in missed tackles. So yeah, relatively speaking, he can't tackle.

When people say he "can't tackle" they don't mean he literally can't bring a guy to the ground. They mean he's not very good at it and frankly it's a bit dishonest to actually argue that point.

It's like when they say a WR "can't catch". They don't literally mean the guy can never actually grab a football. They mean he has suspect hands that drops too many catchable balls.

 

[G2]

There is a colossal difference between "not particularly good" and "terrible." The former means average and the latter means active detriment to your team.

I don't care about the descriptions, anyways. What's annoying is that the critiques of his play is all hyperbole, and not based on, you know, actual plays. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge the 4 plays is exactly my point.

This is where defining quality matters. Once you get outside the top 7-8 SS, there's really not much difference in quality. Is Heath a gamebreaker, no. Is he detrimental, no. In today's NFL, that makes him an average SS, in line with about 20 other guys.

Realistic. If there were better options for what the staff wants they probably would take a shot, but like I said before, having a good player who can be available every play and play multiple positions is worth keeping him around.

 

[G2]

When people say he "can't tackle" they don't mean he literally can't bring a guy to the ground.

Well, you can change the definition to piss on a player, but that doesn't make it accurate.

Where I come from, bringing someone to the ground is the very definition of tackle. You're derailing.
Heath struggles at times, picks the wrong line etc....But he's not a liability. What you're suggesting is just stupid.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Listened to Heath on NFL Radio for about 15 minutes this morning. It was an otherwise boring interview.

Charlie Weis specifically asked him what he planned to do on his day off and he indicated he was heading into the facility for treatment. I knew he had a thigh bruise per Archer, but it sounds like he has several things ailing him. Probably to be expected in week 1 as the body adjusts to the rigors of the season. We are already thin at safety so I wonder if Jerry and Stephen are looking at what's out there as a precaution.

Excuses excuses excuses. They are just like buttholes they all stink

 

[CATCH17]

Our Defense played bad Sunday. No one wrapping up tackles. Had a sack on sheli and didn’t wrap him up. We will get better.

I’m confident about these guys can do because of what this same group did to New Orleans a year ago but I am worried about run defense and what McVay May have exposed in our scheme