New Zone Request

[Phoenix-Talon]

I should have known at least one of the words in the phrase but just didn't put 2 and 2 together. LOL.

Many of my buddies used to get some of the Korean words mixed up after one or two "Mockley" (a very potent drink) or O.B. Meckju (Korean beer) Many of them didn't care whast came out of their mouths after that. LOL.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Many of my buddies used to get some of the Korean words mixed up after one or two "Mockley" (a very potent drink) or O.B. Meckju (Korean beer) Many of them didn't care whast came out of their mouths after that. LOL.

Oh I remember OB Beer....you either got OB beer or Budweiser at a bar, that was your only choices of beer.
So we would drink Bud until we lost the taste and switch to OB because it was cheaper.

As far as Mockley I do not remember that however it maybe another name for SOJU....which I can say I had plenty of that in my time there.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

Oh I remember OB Beer...As far as Mockley I do not remember that however it maybe another name for SOJU....which I can say I had plenty of that in my time there.

Unfortunately, mockley looked like vomit. Soju was wine; had a mild sweet taste to it.

When I started my training, I didn't drink at all. OSAN and PUSAN were the spots.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

Homelessness is a very serious problem in the United States. I would be surprised if someone told me that they've never encountered a homeless person panhandling on a major Intersection of the city, or setting up their bed under a bridge, near a railroad track, in the park or some other location in the city. Many of the homeless people you see are veterans.

Some have signs asking people to help a veteran to feed his family. Some have disabilities that prevents them from working, and their compensation doesn't sufficiently allow them to sustain a household. While still others may suffer from post traumatic stress disorder or depression because of some of the things they've seen or done.

The good news is that our Government is trying to do something about it. You can't ignore it; it's everywhere. ANy ideas about how to end homelessness in America?

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

Who can tell me what punji stick/traps are. Also, what is a Tunnel rat?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Who can tell me what punji stick/traps are. Also, what is a Tunnel rat?

A short stick, normally made from bamboo, that is sharpened on the end.

That end was normally dipped in feces or other stuff.

It was placed low in the grass or in a hole that was covered up.

When the soldier walked through the stick would normally go into the foot or lower leg and the feces or other stuff put on the stick would cause infection to the soldier on top of the puncture wound.



A tunnel rat was a soldier designated to go into underground tunnels to check for enemies or information.

 

[Yeagermeister]

A tunnel rat was a soldier designated to go into underground tunnels to check for enemies or information.

Think Forrest Gump when Lt Dan hands him a 45 and says see what's in that hole

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

A short stick, normally made from bamboo, that is sharpened on the end. That end was normally dipped in feces or other stuff.
It was placed low in the grass or in a hole that was covered up. When the soldier walked through the stick would normally go into the foot or lower leg and the feces or other stuff put on the stick would cause infection to the soldier on top of the puncture wound. A tunnel rat was a soldier designated to go into underground tunnels to check for enemies or information.

That's accurate. Here's more ...pungy traps were also set in many of their tunnels; designed to trap Marine tunnel rats. Some of the tunnels would open up into major VC hospitals and storage facilities. While other tunnels were traps. Tunnel rats were usually armed with a flashlight and a 45 automatic. They stood small in stature but huge in courage!

A "poor man's" booby trap. Few were killed by a punji stick, but they could cause some painful wounds (people died from the infection caused by punji sticks (sharpened wooden or bamboo sticks or metal spikes. The VC planted these in the trailside grass or "punji pits" -- shallow holes in the ground camouflaged with grass or leaves). If you happened to step into a punji pit, your foot could be pierced by one or several punji sticks, often smeared with feces to promote infection. Stationary CAPs sometimes used punji sticks to supplement their barbed wire defenses.

I never knew that the term "TR" was demeaning. In fact I always thought these guys were heroes; risking their lives time after time going through passage-ways that sometimes were trapped, tunnels that would not allow you to back up or turn around -- which meant you'd have to go all the way through to the opening. I can't imagine what hideous things the VC placed into those tunnels.


Sadly, the correct term was TR is offensive for some GIs. Many of the terms we used were a simple way to identify different elements. Grunt could be construed as derrogatory, unless it was one grunt to another. It's a little complicated to define. Similarly, Marines could bad mouth the "crotch", but anyone else had better hold their tongue. Semper Fi!! They took themselves seriously.

You are correct about TR's, though. It was crap duty, and the things you could encounter literally scared the crap out of you. I know people who only tunnelled a few times when needed - due to theor slight build - and I have the highest respect for the ones who had to go down regularly. Here's one such detail: we would tie a rope, or something similar, around the ankles and be lowered into the hole with a .45, but no flashlight(a rarity for us). The TR would go down a short way and wait til his night vision kicked in and wiggle their feet to go on down. There were some very elaborate labrynths (sp) at the end of some, and some would wind around and down and.... it was scary as crap. But it had to get done.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

I had to start at a Green Belt, but it didn't take long to move through the belts to my brown belt. We had tournaments with each other and other bases. One day, my Sen-sei told me that I was ready to test for my 1st Dan Black Belt. There were some last minute preparations involved in my training --he showed me Katas that only a black belt performed, awkward, unorthodox kicks that you would never think of doing, and a few more things that I cannot discuss.

I applied for a few days leave; I didn't need too much time, Seoul Korea wasn't that far away. We traveled to Seoul Korea by train. I was the only American on the train, but I could understand bits and pieces of Korean, and I wasn't worried. My instructor's home was in Seoul -- an since I wasn't scheduled to test until the next day, he took me to his house for dinner. I met his family and stayed overnight.

The next day, we started off by going into an alcohol establishment. Since I don't drink, except for on holidays, or when I have a cold, I really didn't want anything, but my instructor insisted that I have one glass of something that that was strong.

Since I still had some time before the test, we walked around his neighborhood. I wasn't worried, because like I said, he was a 7th degree black back, and I knew a little something also. Now it was time, and I was starting to feel some angst. Mr Kim took me into a section of town that was across some railroad tracks and under a bridge into a cave. The cave opened up into a huge gymnasium.

The cave had one office to conduct the administrative work, and the rest of the cave came straight out of a prehistoric age -- no kidding! I was impressed nevertheless. Because black belts in Tang Soo Do came to fight at this cave for hundreds of years. I was honored, but I didn't want to disappoint my instructor by not passing the test. I was then asked by my instructor to give three Katas.

At first, I couldn't remember what to do, it was Only for a few seconds, but it seemed like several Minutes had passed. Once I began, I had to be careful of the floor. The floor was wood, but it was rotten from years of martial arts related activity. This fact made my movements even more cautious and precise. My katas were crisp, my punches were fast and mad a snap from the sleeve of my gee, and my Kea's were loud and aggressive. After my Katas, I was paired along side of someone from the Army. I knew that because I spoke to him after the test.

This guy was tall and had long legs, but I was faster and I wanted this more than he did! After we bowed, we began to free spar (fight). He kicked very hard, but I was able to get out of the way of most of his attacks. Then I saw the opening of a life-time. I did a fake jump side kick a landed a punch and kea right in the middle of his chest.

I could hear the experts groan with approval, or at least I thought they did (Lol). But I know that I scored a serious blow to his sternum. He didn't go down, nor did I. When it was over, we shook hands a laughed about the whole thing. My next fight was with a 4th degree black belt. When we bowed and took our positions, I could only remember seeing his face once, the rest was a blurr.

This opponent was Korean and he was fast. I'm sure he was only going 20% of what he was capable of doing, and I was so glad. He scored punches , kicks and could have probably embarrassed me. I was humbled by the experience and I think that was the lesson he wanted me to learn. Someone is always just a little faster.

At the close of the testing, I met Kwang Kee's son -- he was the opponent I fought. That made me proud. But I was even more proud when I was told that I could sign an old tinted paged thick book that hundreds of blackbelts have signed before me. I did it! Upon my return to base and training, I was given the rank of assistant instructor. What an experience!

*BP edit - Had to put some spaces in there to read it without straining my eyes

Prior to getting a black belt, it wasn't easy ...

Part II Martial Arts Training ...

One thing you can't help to think about is whether or not your training can really be applied if you are attacked. Well, upon My arrival back in Philadelphia, on leave between assignments, I found out. I put on my Air Force gym shirt (White with Blue letter), and blue Air Force trunks, and went to the local neighborhood gym. As I was shooting some basketball, one of the bullies that I knew growing up entered the gym and hollered out my name. He came running at full speed toward me to either embrace me, or wrestle me down to the floor. Since I didn't know what his Intent was, I assumed the approach to be hostile in nature. I went into a low stance just as he was about to make contact, and carried his weight over my shoulder, placing him hard on the gym floor. Of course everyone saw the maneuver and it was the talk of the neighborhood. The training works!

My second tour in Korea came a year later. But while stationed in Montana, I worked out at the YMCA, and practiced in the local park, While the basics were similar, the style was totally different this time. Instead of power strikes and hard stances, Tang Soo Doo - Moo Duck Kwon, focused on open hand, cat-stances (this meant that your fighting stance was formed with one hand partially opened like a cat paw, with palms toward the potential attacker; and the other hand was bent halfway across the chest palms up. Your forward foot barely touched the floor, and your leg was bent. The other leg was set, but not locked). Anyway, Tang Soo Doo was not an accepted martial arts in Korea for many years. The President, Mr. Kwang Kee, wanted to make the arts a Korea tradition; like Tae Kwon Do, but he was denied and decided to study in China. This art is part Korean and part Chinese. After many years of development, Mr. Kwang Kee was allowed to return to Korea and practice his art. Soon after, Tang Soo Do was finally accepted as the second form of acceptable martial arts in Korea. My Sen-sei was Mr Kim. He was about 6'1" and slim. He was trying to teach in the United States but couldn¿t because of something martial arts-related that prevented him from obtaining permission (confidential). Mr Kim was a 7th Dan Black Belt (Dan). Kwang Kee himself was a 9th Degree. My training was just as hard as I had remembered. I had to get used to a different fighting style that was more touch than power! We focused on pressure point and places that could really be detrimental to an attacked if applied. This was More refined training. For example, my gee (uniform) was white with black trimmings. It had to be clean and worn correctly, with the knot in my belt tied in a certain manner (always tied away from the instructor, fellow students or a potential competitor).

My tech school partners and I almost wanted the North Koreans to infiltrate South -- so we couLd kick their tails! At least that's what we thought. We really Only knew enough to get our own tails kicked.:

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

In the Air Force, I carried a pager 24 hours. I was the Casualty Assistance Officer on the base. Part of my responsibilities included being notified that a pilot or other active duty person was killed in a mission in Vietnam, or while operating a motor vehicle -- more often than not, the vehicle was a motorcycle (these calls would normally occur in the middle of the night. I had to assemble a casualty notification team (the team consisted of the on-call Squadron Commander, a nurse or doctor, and a chaplain). The team had to contact the next of kin, within so many hour of the time of death of the military person. I was the leader of that team! That's stress!

I still remember every single face on every single next of kin that I counseled. Every time someone was notified/counseled, a small part of me went with them.

On one occasion, I remember going out to a Captain's (Air Force Pilot) home to counsel his spouse and daughter (the daughter was about 8 years old). When I arrived, his father was also there (he was a full bird Colonel). His spouse was naturally very distraught and did not want to accept the face value payment for SGLI (Servicemen's Group Life Insurance); she considered it "death money." But I calmly explained to her that her husband deliberately made her the beneficiary for the insurance's face value, and that he wanted her to have the money.

After regaining her composure, she then signed all of the necessary documents. At some point in time the daughter (little 8 year old girl) came into the room laughing histerically and stated ..."my daddy's dead, my daddy's dead. isn't that funny." The family appeared as though they were waiting for me to comment (perhaps not, but it sure felt that way). I paused for what seemed like eternity, looked at her and said "no, it's not funny at all."

No amount of training could teach you what to say under those circumstances; it's something called compassion for others, and respect for a downed brother in arms, was enough to get me through it.

I wish there was another way to iron out differences between countries -- dying is not a good way to make a living!

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

Some of you will know this to be accurate information. Little known Combat training told by a vet (no names) ...

The SERE school I went to was not that involved. We went down to Coronado for a day of classroom lectures. I mean an entire day, no breaks for lunch or dinner. We were told that we would be going on a picnic after class. Well, after class we were placed in a covered six-by and driven to a beach. There we were off loaded and told that it was time for the picnic. One bright LTJG ask where the food was. He was told that we could eat anything we found. We only had about one and a half hours of daylight left. We started out looking around for what was there. We found a metal container that we used to boil some salt water. There were muscles on the rocks that we ate and also used for bait for fish and crabs. We found some fishing line a few old rusty fishhooks. We caught a good number of perch using the muscles as bait. We caught lots of crabs though. There were 14 of us in our group. That was the number of crewmembers on a P3. We ate ok and sacked out for the night. Some of us froze our *** of that night. Some of us had worn longjohns because we had friends that had gone before us and told us to do so. The next morning the six-by showed up and off we went. They took us to the mock POW Camp. The truck stopped on a dirt road and we were told that we were behind enemy lines and to avoid capture. People scattered in all directions. My buddy and I went about 100 yards and sat down in the middle of some bushes. We were the last to be captured. We spent the next 4 days being slapped around and put into black boxes. The guards were ex-pows and Seals. They made it very real. I came home a little bruised and battered. I was told that I would not have survived. Oh well. At least I got in a few good punches on the guard that kept poking me in the kidney with that baton. I never went to JEST. I was stationed at Cubi Point and the school was located next to the airfield. We use to go up there and check out the giant lizards they kept in a cage. I was told it was extremely tough.

True/false -- you be the judge.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

These are figures by branch of service who were in-country during the Viet-Nam War. In itself it may explain why the Navy was not as well known as the Army, Air Force or Marines. Did you know, over 8,000 US Coast Guard Served in Viet-Nam?

IN-COUNTRY SOUTH VIET-NAM by:

1. BRANCH OF SERVICE
2. NUMBER OF PERSONNEL
3. % OF TOTAL

Army
1,736,000
67%

Marine Corps
391,000
15%

Air Force
293,000
11%

Navy *
174,000
7%

Total
2,594,000

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

Few more details you may Not have known ...

The Viet-Nam War, also known as the Second Indochina War, lasted from 1956 to 1975.

The major players:

Republic of Viet-Nam (South Viet-Nam)
and the United States of America (including draft eligible men in the protectorates of Guam and Porta Rico)

Here is a list of the Free World Forces in Viet-Nam. Sometimes called FWMAF; Free World Military Assistance Forces:

New Zealand
Australia
Philippines
Thailand
Republic of Korea
And to a limited degree the non-communist governments of Cambodia and Laos participated. Mainly because they were also under attack.

Unoffical: Canada (Tens of thousands of Canadians, including a Medal of Honor winner, crossed the border, joined the American cause and served with the U.S. military in Viet-Nam.)

Other limited assistance, such as doctors and their supplies came from Spain and I believe India, but don't quote me on this one.

Against...

The Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam (North Viet-Nam), the People's Liberation Armed Forces in South Viet-Nam (Viet Cong), the Khmer Rouge (communist guerrillas in Cambodia) and the Pathet Lao (communist guerrillas in Laos)

China and the Soviet Union contributed to the communist side through material support. It is also known that Russian pilots flew Mig missions during the war.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

If you are a veteran, or you know a veteran (family, friends, etc), then you should read carefully about what benefits you (or they) are entitled to for honorably serving your (their) country. This information will be furnished in increments ...

The VA budget includes legislation for several proposals that will yield net mandatory savings totaling $2.5 billion over the next 10 years. The first eliminates VA's vendee home loan program. It is unrelated to VA's mission because it allows the general public to obtain a direct loan from VA to purchase a home that VA has acquired when a veteran defaults on a loan. The general public may obtain financing from various other public and private institutions for this purpose. Other proposals would extend permanently certain mandatory savings authorities that would otherwise expire over the next several years.

Potential Reforms

Both the budget and the President's National Security Directive on Military Quality of Life reflect the Administration's commitment to improve VA health care for those veterans eligible for treatment in the system by enhancing access to timely, high-quality care. The President will convene a Veterans Health Care Task Force composed of officials and clinicians from VA and DOD, leaders of veterans and military service organizations, and leaders in health care quality to make recommendations for improvements.

To avoid duplication of benefits and enhance the quality and continuity of care, the Administration will focus on providing high-quality health care through a single source. Over 700,000 military retirees (all ages) are enrolled in both the DOD and VA health systems and may use either whenever they choose. As a result, DOD and VA encounter problems in allocating the necessary resources due to their difficulty estimating the number of people that will obtain health care services in each of the systems. The Administration will seek legislation to ensure that DOD beneficiaries who are also eligible for VA medical care enroll with only one of these agencies as their health care program. In addition, to ensure high-quality care and expanded access for the Nation's highest priority veterans, VA will focus its attention on treating disabled and low-income veterans.

VA has begun the assessment phase of an infrastructure reform initiative that will result in a health care system with enhanced capabilities to treat veterans with disabilities or lower incomes living in underserved geographic areas. Savings from the disposal of underused VA facilities will support these improvements. As VA awaits the recommendations from this multi-year assessment (referred to as CARES), it will continue to use expanded sharing agreements and contracting authorities with other health care providers.

VA will continue to reform its information technology. It will improve coordination among its administrations to plan for, implement, and use information technology to serve veterans. Reforms will include developing a common technological architecture, establishing common data definitions, and coordinating systems across VA, to improve cost-effectiveness and delivery of benefits and services to veterans.

More to come ...

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

Controversial issue among some vets I know ...

Are really military Vets????

They could be using the MYTH of the homeless vet to run a scam for money.

MOST VN vets are NOT homeless or unemployed! I'm not saying they all are not VN vet's, but just maybe "all" these vets along the freeways are not what they seem to be.

DOes anyone have any information otherwise?

 

[CowboyPrincess]

Controversial issue among some vets I know ...

Are really military Vets????

They could be using the MYTH of the homeless vet to run a scam for money.

MOST VN vets are NOT homeless or unemployed! I'm not saying they all are not VN vet's, but just maybe "all" these vets along the freeways are not what they seem to be.

DOes anyone have any information otherwise?

When I was in Oregon, there were several times that we'd see a "vet" with a "Nam vet will work for food" sign. They were all decked out in their army/navy store clothes.

My late husband confronted one once.. asked the year he was born and where he served in nam. Turned out the guy would have been 15 at the end of the war - so he couldn't have served. And for the answer of where he served, he just said it was too painful to remember.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

When I was in Oregon, there were several times that we'd see a "vet" with a "Nam vet will work for food" sign. They were all decked out in their army/navy store clothes.

My late husband confronted one once.. asked the year he was born and where he served in nam. Turned out the guy would have been 15 at the end of the war - so he couldn't have served. And for the answer of where he served, he just said it was too painful to remember.

That's exactly what a lot of Nam Vets are saying. They know there's a war going on and that Americans will be more sympathetic toward veterans. So they use that as a leverage to obtain money. There's probably a percentage of those that are simply panhandlers and not even homeless at all.

That really takes away from those vets that really need help. Sounds like your husband was really a person who took pride in being a veteran.

Take care Princess

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

I lived on La Loma Dr. where the Der Weinershnitzel was. Close to Codova Meadows school.

I used to go to Der Weinershnitzel's all the time ...wait, I'm hungry for a dog right now! I'm buying...

 

[CowboyPrincess]

don't forget to pick up a chili cheese dog for me

 

[jksmith269]

On the contrary, that's real good information. Thank you. But, a "DMZ" would be dedicated to just military veterans (retired or otherwise). Forgive me for being insistent, but military veterans are a special breed of folks with unique and unblieveable experiences. Perhaps on a trial basis.

Your call.

I love the idea but I have on question how will you seperate Vets, Active duty and pretenders?

Second why would you want to? I mean if us vets talking aobut our "glory" or "not so glory" days could influnce one man or woman into joining the service then I think it would be a benefit to having it a "open" fourm. Just my two cents.