Newman vs. Vasher...Dollars and Cents

[DCBoysfan]

wasn't against the lions?

that play was against the Seahawks in the playoffs last year. I'm starting to think you really don't watch Newman play?

 

[DCBoysfan]

and davis contract is the same type of contract that IMO is best for newman. most of his money in the first 3 yrs of his deal. thanks for agreeing with me.:laugh2:

OK...I guess????..I'm not Newmans agent..I wasn't debating How his money would be paid, just that he would be paid

 

[tomson75]

Oh, so when it supports a Cowboys player, Joyner's metrics are gold (I remember them being thrown around in a Witten vs. Cooley debate) but when they are showing a Boys' player's fault, they are faulty.

Ummm...never siad ANYTHING about Witten, Cooley, or any other player for that matter. I was merely nipping the "metrics" stance in the bud. Thanks for bringing up a non-issue though.

I agree that Joyner's metrics aren't perfect, no stat is, but catches allowed (while subjective) isn't "his stat".

Anyways, Newman is NOT one of the top 3 CBs in the league. I will accept top 10, maybe even top 5. But no way is he top 3. Asante Samuel, Nate Clements, Charles Woodson and Rashaen Mathis are all superior to Newman is every statistical category by a good margin.

Subjective is the key word here...and by being a Commander fan, you are clearly subjective in regards to this teams players in a negative way (as I am postively)...like I said, you'd never admit it even if his "stats" were superior to the likes of Clements and Woodson.

Most (relatively) unbiased sources has him ranked from 10-20.

They MAY be unbiased (which is also debatable with the strong contempt for anything cowboys in the media), but that doesn't mean they're right. 95% of the media clowns whom you are more than likely referring to are doing nothing more than regurgitating whatever gets them published. It's sad, but I'd put three or four guys on this board up against ANY member of the media when it comes down to it. "The media" doesn't always consistute a fact, or a reliable source for that matter.

...all bias aside, I'd probably have to drop him down a notch or two also, at least until he proves he's better than those other guys...statistically that is.

 

[burmafrd]

When did Steve Smith burn Newman? EVER? He had a bad game against Detroit last year. No arguement. Maybe the worst game of his entire career.
Lets see-4 years, 66 games, and that was his only real bad one. He has had a couple of others that were not so great, but that is all. Is any other CB that consistent? He had some problems in 2004 (when he had a bad knee, by the way) but he was not victimized by anyone.

 

[Connection20]

Oh, so when it supports a Cowboys player, Joyner's metrics are gold (I remember them being thrown around in a Witten vs. Cooley debate) but when they are showing a Boys' player's fault, they are faulty.

I agree that Joyner's metrics aren't perfect, no stat is, but catches allowed (while subjective) isn't "his stat".

Anyways, Newman is NOT one of the top 3 CBs in the league. I will accept top 10, maybe even top 5. But no way is he top 3. Asante Samuel, Nate Clements, Charles Woodson and Rashaen Mathis are all superior to Newman is every statistical category by a good margin.

Most (relatively) unbiased sources has him ranked from 10-20.

Im way way late in this conversation but I would like to make a quick point here. You have never in your life met a football fan that doesnt either love or hate the Cowboys. You havent met them because they dont exist. There are 31 other franchises that cant say that. By that logc alone I would think you would be hard pressed to find a non biased rating of Cowboys players. I have always noticed when reading through various football mags, blogs, and articles that the Boys are either vastly overrated or underrated. It seems I never come across an article that puts them right where they shoul be.

As far as my opinion on Newman, Im with the crowd that says with a pass rush Newman would be phenomenal. #21 Couldnt cover me for 5 seconds I promise, and Im not even fast anymore.

 

[firehawk350]

Im way way late in this conversation but I would like to make a quick point here. You have never in your life met a football fan that doesnt either love or hate the Cowboys. You havent met them because they dont exist. There are 31 other franchises that cant say that. By that logc alone I would think you would be hard pressed to find a non biased rating of Cowboys players. I have always noticed when reading through various football mags, blogs, and articles that the Boys are either vastly overrated or underrated. It seems I never come across an article that puts them right where they should be.

It's going to happen to the patriots next.

Anyways, this again, kind of helps my point out because I haven't seen a single source that isn't Cowboys affiliated call Newman a top 5 CB. All of them have him in 10-20 range.

By your account, at least somebody (given that the media either vastly over or under - rates the Boys, would put Newman in with the elite CBs but no one has. Leading me to believe that he's a good, but not great, CB.

 

[LatinMind]

When did Steve Smith burn Newman? EVER? He had a bad game against Detroit last year. No arguement. Maybe the worst game of his entire career.
Lets see-4 years, 66 games, and that was his only real bad one. He has had a couple of others that were not so great, but that is all. Is any other CB that consistent? He had some problems in 2004 (when he had a bad knee, by the way) but he was not victimized by anyone.

the better question should be when has newman ever had a great game? that would justify him having this value thats so much more then what vasher got?

 

[28 Joker]

Terence Newman is the most underrated player in the NFL. He was snubbed out of the 2005 Pro Bowl when he probably had the best year for any corner in the league. He still hasn't made a Pro Bowl.

If you conducted mock trials for NFL players to see who was the most underrated players in the league, the lawyers would fight over representing Newman because such a strong case can be made for him.

 

[tomson75]

the better question should be when has newman ever had a great game? that would justify him having this value thats so much more then what vasher got?

Are you really that dense? Or are you just bound by the allure of shiny objects and interceptions?

You really wouldn't consider having games with 0 catches allowed, great games? Please.

 

[tomson75]

Anyways, this again, kind of helps my point out because I haven't seen a single source that isn't Cowboys affiliated call Newman a top 5 CB. All of them have him in 10-20 range.

By your account, at least somebody (given that the media either vastly over or under - rates the Boys, would put Newman in with the elite CBs but no one has. Leading me to believe that he's a good, but not great, CB.

Wow. Your research skills mirror your analytical skills.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/flash/2006/allProTeam

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89313&highlight=newman+all-pro

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89463&highlight=newman+all-pro

That took 30 seconds.


If you want anyone on this site to take you seriously, you might want to quit taking wild stabs at things YOU believe to be true and presenting them as facts or generalizations.

 

[LatinMind]

Are you really that dense? Or are you just bound by the allure of shiny objects and interceptions?

You really wouldn't consider having games with 0 catches allowed, great games? Please.

lol i doubt newman has ever had a game were he didnt allow a catch. and if he has, good for him, theres plenty of cb's who have had similar games. but i think u mean td's.

i find it funny because newmans a cowboy you think he deserves a great big huge contract. but if its a freeagent, or a trade or a draft pick. its either hell no he's expensive, no because the players contract is too big, or trade down

 

[firehawk350]

...all bias aside, I'd probably have to drop him down a notch or two also, at least until he proves he's better than those other guys...statistically that is.

Okay, so we agree then?

 

[tomson75]

Okay, so we agree then?

I'll give you top 5, I'm not going any lower than that.

 

[LatinMind]

If you want anyone on this site to take you seriously, you might want to quit taking wild stabs at things YOU believe to be true and presenting them as facts or generalizations.

u might want to get off your high horse and actually think if they take you seriously too. ur just another poster with an opinion. nothing more nothing less

 

[tomson75]

lol i doubt newman has ever had a game were he didnt allow a catch. and if he has, good for him, theres plenty of cb's who have had similar games. but i think u mean td's.

i find it funny because newmans a cowboy you think he deserves a great big huge contract. but if its a freeagent, or a trade or a draft pick. its either hell no he's expensive, no because the players contract is too big, or trade down

No, I meant catches, and yes many top QB's have them occasionally.

The fact is, you just blatantly and ignorantly just stated that Newman has NEVER had a great game.

You are wrong. Just pointing that out.

I never said anything about giving Newman a "great big contract" either. Again, you're wrong.

Quite the contrary, actually. I'd rather see him continue to be snubbed from popularity contests like the pro bowl...makes him cheaper for us.

 

[tomson75]

u might want to get off your high horse and actually think if they take you seriously too. ur just another poster with an opinion. nothing more nothing less

My high horse..er um...opinion, is actually supported by SOME facts...yours isn't. I never claimed to be anything other than another poster with an opinion.

I'm sorry if this upsets you. boo hoo.

...and I could care less if YOU take me seriously.

 

[LatinMind]

No, I meant catches, and yes many top QB's have them occasionally.

The fact is, you just blatantly and ignorantly just stated that Newman has NEVER had a great game.

You are wrong. Just pointing that out.

I never said anything about giving Newman a "great big contract" either. Again, you're wrong.

Quite the contrary, actually. I'd rather see him continue to be snubbed from popularity contests like the pro bowl...makes him cheaper for us.

then why even attempt to argue in this thread, because thats what the first post was about. the economical impact of future newman contract. i see you're just the type of poster who wants to argue about anything.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

This whole idea that signing Newman to a fair deal means we'll have to cut half our team is ridiculous anyway. We have a lot of good young talent under our control for a while. About the only player we might lose from signing Romo and Newman is Flozell, and his play is sometimes spotty anyway.

BTW, does anyone remember three INTs in one game against a certain NFCE opponent and NFL Defensive Player of the Week a few years ago?

I bet Firehawk remembers it.

 

[firehawk350]

Wow. Your research skills mirror your analytical skills.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/flash/2006/allProTeam

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89313&highlight=newman+all-pro

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89463&highlight=newman+all-pro

That took 30 seconds.


If you want anyone on this site to take you seriously, you might want to quit taking wild stabs at things YOU believe to be true and presenting them as facts or generalizations.

Ummmm, the only "unbiased" source you quoted is ESPN and they have Newman ranked 21 among the league's CBs.

It's an insider article, but you should be able to see the top 10 without an account and he's not there.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/scouting?position=29

 

[firehawk350]

This whole idea that signing Newman to a fair deal means we'll have to cut half our team is ridiculous anyway. We have a lot of good young talent under our control for a while. About the only player we might lose from signing Romo and Newman is Flozell, and his play is sometimes spotty anyway.

BTW, does anyone remember three INTs in one game against a certain NFCE opponent and NFL Defensive Player of the Week a few years ago?

I bet Firehawk remembers it.

Woo-hoo, he intercepted Ramsey (is he even on a team at this point) when our #1 offensive threat was injured. A single good game three years ago doesn't constitute a very good case for a player.

I remember a certain game two years ago where Carlos Rogers picked off Phillip Rivers twice! Woo-hoo! He's a great corner too!!![/sarcasm]