NewyScruggs Blog: Wade Phillips Stands Behind Michael Vick

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,571
Reaction score
27,856
fortdick;1570950 said:
Animal slavery? Where is Abraham Lincoln when you need him? LOL!

Animal slavery! You can't be serious?

There is no difference between a kind pet owner and and a kind slave owner except that which is enslaved. You can call it family all you want but at the end of the day if the animal wants to be free it has no right to freedom.
 

Jay-D

New Member
Messages
508
Reaction score
0
Hostile;1570938 said:
Do I see the hypocrisy? Personally, no for the exact same reason I already stated. Do I see where others can feel it is? Sure. Am I required to believe exactly as they do about it? No, and I have no intention to.

As I said before and you seemed to disagree with, we are all hypocrites on some level. If you see this as me being hypocritical...oh well. If I see your condemnation of other who think as I do as hypocritical...oh well.

Do I feel it is right to incarcerate people for dogfighting? I already answered this. If he is convicted, yes. I am fine with it. It's illegal.

No amount of discussion about the fur trade, slaughterhouses, wearing leather belts and shoes, or rodeos is going to change that. Dog fighting is illegal. Period. It isn't right for him to do it. It wouldn't be right for me to do it.

Why do you think they painted the buildings and the fences black and hold these events at night if it isn't meant to be secretive and illicit? Are you maintaining that rodeos, slaughterhouses and the fur trade only do their deeds at night under stealth?

I'm not that complicated Fuzzy. All you gotta do is ask me a direct question instead of beating around the bush.


Let me ask you this queston......

If Mike Vick wanted to grab about 30 cows, and then slice thier throats and rip out their esophagus while they were still alive and staggering around.....would that be OK with you since it's NOT illegal?
 

5Stars

Here comes the Sun...
Messages
37,846
Reaction score
16,869
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
FuzzyLumpkins;1570934 said:
And Im saying that the law should be changed because its wrong. I love it when you cant actually defend the law so you fall back to 'its the law.'

This also fails to rationalize trophy hnting, rodeos, and cosmetic testing as well as the veal and fur trade.

Sure kill to eat but kill to eat tender or kill to look pretty or kill for the rush or sport of it?


Fuzzy, as much as you want it to be, this world is not Utopia.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,571
Reaction score
27,856
5Stars;1570962 said:
Fuzzy, as much as you want it to be, this world is not Utopia.

To be aware of a correctable flaw and actively support said flaw is deplorable.
 

Hostile

The Duke
Messages
119,565
Reaction score
4,544
Jay-D;1570960 said:
Let me ask you this queston......

If Mike Vick wanted to grab about 30 cows, and then slice thier throats and rip out their esophagus while they were still alive and staggering around.....would that be OK with you since it's NOT illegal?
LOL

Nice try.

If Michael Vick bought the cows, had them delivered to a slaughterhouse so that he could personally kill them, and they ended up still being food for human beings I suppose I really wouldn't have any problem with it.

Would I consider it rational or normal? No, but this is such a reach. It isn't even close to what he is accused of doing. I prefer to remain in the REAL world while discussing this if it's okay with you.
 

Stautner

New Member
Messages
10,691
Reaction score
1
FuzzyLumpkins;1570958 said:
There is no difference between a kind pet owner and and a kind slave owner except that which is enslaved. You can call it family all you want but at the end of the day if the animal wants to be free it has no right to freedom.

Let's see - a human owning a human versus a human owning a pet ........


Yep, that's EXACTLY the same.


You're powers of reason continue amaze us all.


Jay-D;1570960 said:
Let me ask you this queston......

If Mike Vick wanted to grab about 30 cows, and then slice thier throats and rip out their esophagus while they were still alive and staggering around.....would that be OK with you since it's NOT illegal?

First, that would be illegal if it was just for sheer pleasure or getting a thrill out of torture.

Second, cows are used for food - THAT's the rationalization for it being acceptible.
 

Jay-D

New Member
Messages
508
Reaction score
0
Hostile;1570941 said:
Universally accepted means the whole world agrees with you. Like it or not I am a part of this world.

It is not murder for food. Murder is the taking of HUMAN life.


If you are trying to argue that livestock are not domesticated animals.....then you are basically arguing against the whole world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated

Good luck with that!

As for your stance on murder....that is your opinion....and that's cool.
 

Spectre

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,748
Reaction score
522
CrazyCowboy;1570116 said:
Vick is a good guy.........but, he hung out with the wrong crowd.
Vick is a loser and he IS the wrong crowd.
 

5Stars

Here comes the Sun...
Messages
37,846
Reaction score
16,869
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
FuzzyLumpkins;1570970 said:
To be aware of a correctable flaw and actively support said flaw is deplorable.

And what is that correctable flaw, Fuzzy? Should we vote to allow dog fighting? :confused:
 

Hostile

The Duke
Messages
119,565
Reaction score
4,544
Jay-D;1570985 said:
If you are trying to argue that livestock are not domesticated animals.....then you are basically arguing against the whole world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated

Good luck with that!

As for your stance on murder....that is your opinion....and that's cool.
Two can play this game ya know.

Show me where killing of animals for food is murder. Or killing them for sport. Or killing them for fur.

Murder

Good luck with that!
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,571
Reaction score
27,856
Stautner;1570982 said:
Let's see - a human owning a human versus a human owning a pet ........


Yep, that's EXACTLY the same.


You're powers of reason continue amaze us all.




First, that would be illegal if it was just for sheer pleasure or getting a thrill out of torture.

Second, cows are used for food - THAT's the rationalization for it being acceptible.

I never said they were the different. if you notice that what i listed as the difference was actually what the two nouns in your sentences were.
 

Jay-D

New Member
Messages
508
Reaction score
0
Hostile;1570972 said:
LOL

Nice try.

If Michael Vick bought the cows, had them delivered to a slaughterhouse so that he could personally kill them, and they ended up still being food for human beings I suppose I really wouldn't have any problem with it.

Would I consider it rational or normal? No, but this is such a reach. It isn't even close to what he is accused of doing. I prefer to remain in the REAL world while discussing this if it's okay with you.

Hostile.....the thing I find interesting about you is that sometimes it seems that you allow your ideas about right and wrong to be shaped by laws and what the government allows you to think is right and wrong.

Mike Vick may have done a very bad thing. That remains to be seen.

On the other hand, we have ALL done a very bad thing every time we buy and use an animal product.....and it's completely legal.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,571
Reaction score
27,856
5Stars;1570989 said:
And what is that correctable flaw, Fuzzy? Should we vote to allow dog fighting? :confused:

You should either recognize that killing animals for vice is acceptable and not condemn dogfighting or you should say that killing animals for vice is not acceptable and seek to end all of it.
 

superpunk

Well-Known Member
Messages
26,330
Reaction score
75
Your premise is sound, Jay-D, and is basically just an outline on the moral relativity and hypocrisy of animal cruelty being wrong for one species because we've deemed them pets and friends, while it is ok for another species because we've deemed them food.

Some of the ways you present it are a little out there, but your premise is solid. You'll get nowhere, though. :) Open-mindedness and anything farther than "OMG, you think dog fighting and killing cows are exactly the same" is a rare thing to find on this topic. Everyone's too emotionally attached to the animal in question to acknowledge that the morals on animal treatment are sketchy, and differ from culture to culture, even within America. Heck, Iran has nearly eradicated their dog population, and in many nations, they are food.

Morally, the distinction between two unnecessary evils of dog fighting and let's say cattle slaughter (among others) is fuzzy at best. Both are unnecessary for humans, and at the end of the day - the dog is just as dead as the cow, and both for our enjoyment. Somewhere along the line, we just decided dogs get rights and cows don't. Doesn;t make it right, just makes it the law.
 

5Stars

Here comes the Sun...
Messages
37,846
Reaction score
16,869
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
Jay-D;1570985 said:
If you are trying to argue that livestock are not domesticated animals.....then you are basically arguing against the whole world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated

Good luck with that!

As for your stance on murder....that is your opinion....and that's cool.

Domestication refers to the process of taming a population of animals (although it can also be used to refer to plants) or even a species as a whole. Humans have brought these populations under their care for a wide range of reasons: to produce food or valuable commodities (such as wool, cotton, or silk), for help with various types of work, transportation and to enjoy as pets or ornamental plants. Plants domesticated primarily for aesthetic enjoyment in and around the home are usually called house plants or ornamentals, while those domesticated for large-scale food production are generally called crops. Likewise, animals domesticated for home companionship are usually called pets while those domesticated for food or work are called livestock or farm animals.


As usual, open mouth and insert foot!

:laugh2:
 

Jay-D

New Member
Messages
508
Reaction score
0
superpunk;1571008 said:
Your premise is sound, Jay-D, and is basically just an outline on the moral relativity and hypocrisy of animal cruelty being wrong for one species because we've deemed them pets and friends, while it is ok for another species because we've deemed them food.

Some of the ways you present it are a little out there, but your premise is solid. You'll get nowhere, though. :) Open-mindedness and anything farther than "OMG, you think dog fighting and killing cows are exactly the same" is a rare thing to find on this topic. Everyone's too emotionally attached to the animal in question to acknowledge that the morals on animal treatment are sketchy, and differ from culture to culture, even within America. Heck, Iran has nearly eradicated their dog population, and in many nations, they are food.

Morally, the distinction between two unnecessary evils of dog fighting and let's say cattle slaughter (among others) is fuzzy at best. Both are unnecessary for humans, and at the end of the day - the dog is just as dead as the cow, and both for our enjoyment. Somewhere along the line, we just decided dogs get rights and cows don't. Doesn;t make it right, just makes it the law.


This post puts into words everything I've tried to say.

Nice!
 

Stautner

New Member
Messages
10,691
Reaction score
1
FuzzyLumpkins;1570998 said:
I never said they were the different. if you notice that what i listed as the difference was actually what the two nouns in your sentences were.

Saying that the only difference between a kind pet owner and a kind slave owner is in what is enslaved is like saying there is no difference between a billionaire who has money in the bank and a McDonalds employee who has money in the bank other than the amount ......

What is enslaved makes ALL the difference.
 

zeromaster

New Member
Messages
2,575
Reaction score
0
Jay-D;1570345 said:
I'm not saying dog fighting is a good thing, because it's not. But cattle slaughtering is a horrible business too.

If anything, cattle slaughtering is MORE horrific. Anybody who has seen the inside of a slaughterhouse knows this.

If anybody has a couple male dogs, they know that they are gonna fight whether there are people there to bet on it or not. Dogs fight naturally all the time to establish dominance. It's just that people who think of dogs as gentle pets are shocked at the thought of them fighting.

Fighting dogs is a terrible thing to do and it's illegal.......but every time you eat a steak you need to check yourself because you are eating an innocent animal who was murdered. Period.

I just hate to see all the people in glass houses throwing stones.
We had a couple of male dogs for over 10 years and they never fought.

Thanks for posing as a purveyor of Absolute Truth. :eek:

The key word is "posing".
 

5Stars

Here comes the Sun...
Messages
37,846
Reaction score
16,869
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
FuzzyLumpkins;1571004 said:
You should either recognize that killing animals for vice is acceptable and not condemn dogfighting or you should say that killing animals for vice is not acceptable and seek to end all of it.


That's very admirable of you, really it is. But that's not how the world works.
 
Top