NFC East records since Garrett took over Cowboys

[Alexander]

You interpret these numbers as "Hey, we're about as mediocre and average as everyone else in the division during JG's tenure."

I (and almost everyone else) interprets this as "Wow, the division has been terrible the past few years and this is the best JG can do?"

Learning how to be a head coach takes time.

 

[Crown Royal]

What has baffled me has been our lack of win streaks vs. the rest of the east. Overall our record is better, but I think since Garrett has become coach, our best win streak is something like 3 games. Maybe four? Whereas each of the other teams were propelled into the playoffs with their abilities to string wins together. Giants in 2011, Commanders in 2012 (player evaluation anyone) and the Eagles this year.

To me, if there is any proof that the Bear's comments about the 'circus' around Dallas is higher than any other team, it's there. The pressure here to put games together and actually win consistently seems really high. When we get 2-3 wins, that next one is such a huge deal that we can't seem to get to it.

 

[Idgit]

You interpret these numbers as "Hey, we're about as mediocre and average as everyone else in the division during JG's tenure."

I (and almost everyone else) interprets this as "Wow, the division has been terrible the past few years and this is the best JG can do?"

I do. I don't understand why everybody expects the Cowboys to outperform the rest of the division with a first time HC, a liability at GM, a hamstrung cap, and a roster no better than that of the other three teams.

Why is it the Cowboys who are expected to take advantage of this weak division when teams like the Giants or a Eagles cannot? We're playing similar schedules.

Our weaknesses are well documented. In other threads we're more than willing to acknowledge their existence. We even try to make some up where there really aren't any. So why are the Cowboys expected to overdeliver when it comes to wins and losses? Is it because we like the star on the side of the helmet?

Chip Kelley, Tom Coughlin, Andy Reid, Mike Shannahan. These are some pretty good coaches struggling similarly with similar teams playing similar schedules. We expect Jason Garret to outperform them in terms of not only wins and losses, but NFC titles, that's a normal thing fans do. But it doesn't necessarily follow that we're a disaster when we're not able to do it. At some point you have to sit back and realize that beating good teams with a pass defense like ours is a really tall order.

 

[Crown Royal]

I do. I don't understand why everybody expects the Cowboys to outperform the rest of the division with a first time HC, a liability at GM, a hamstrung cap, and a roster no better than that of the other three teams.

Why is it the Cowboys who are expected to take advantage of this weak division when teams like the Giants or a Eagles cannot? We're playing similar schedules.

Our weaknesses are well documented. In other threads we're more than willing to acknowledge their existence. We even try to make some up where there really aren't any. So why are the Cowboys expected to overdeliver when it comes to wins and losses? Is it because we like the star on the side of the helmet?

Chip Kelley, Tom Coughlin, Andy Reid, Mike Shannahan. These are some pretty good coaches struggling similarly with similar teams playing similar schedules. We expect Jason Garret to outperform them in terms of not only wins and losses, but NFC titles, that's a normal thing fans do. But it doesn't necessarily follow that we're a disaster when we're not able to do it. At some point you have to sit back and realize that beating good teams with a pass defense like ours is a really tall order.

I think the two things that annoy me about this are simple:

1) as per my post above - each of the teams that have beat us in the division over the last 3 years did so because they could string together wins. Our inability to string even 5 wins together is killing the team.
2) The giants 2011. And 2007 for that matter. I mean, how????

 

[Idgit]

I think the two things that annoy me about this are simple:

1) as per my post above - each of the teams that have beat us in the division over the last 3 years did so because they could string together wins. Our inability to string even 5 wins together is killing the team.
2) The giants 2011. And 2007 for that matter. I mean, how????

I agree with both of those. I also agree when people post that it's been Garrett's responsibility to fix the pass defense and he has failed at it.

It doesn't follow from that that we're a dumpster fire, though. Building contenders is hard to do, especially in Dallas. The coach is an obvious figurehead to change when the progress is slow. The thing is, we actually know exactly why we're getting beat. If we fix it right, we'll stop losing games to better teams. Why not just fix the pass defense and stop wondering why the other NFCE teams are pacing us?

 

[Wolfpack]

I do. I don't understand why everybody expects the Cowboys to outperform the rest of the division with a first time HC, a liability at GM, a hamstrung cap, and a roster no better than that of the other three teams.

Why is it the Cowboys who are expected to take advantage of this weak division when teams like the Giants or a Eagles cannot? We're playing similar schedules.

Our weaknesses are well documented. In other threads we're more than willing to acknowledge their existence. We even try to make some up where there really aren't any. So why are the Cowboys expected to overdeliver when it comes to wins and losses? Is it because we like the star on the side of the helmet?

Chip Kelley, Tom Coughlin, Andy Reid, Mike Shannahan. These are some pretty good coaches struggling similarly with similar teams playing similar schedules. We expect Jason Garret to outperform them in terms of not only wins and losses, but NFC titles, that's a normal thing fans do. But it doesn't necessarily follow that we're a disaster when we're not able to do it. At some point you have to sit back and realize that beating good teams with a pass defense like ours is a really tall order.

I think any of the other coaches (other than maybe Reid) you mentioned walks away with the division with the Dallas roster and crazy owner/GM. Jason just isn't a good head coach, I think he is trying but isn't the right guy at the right time for this team. Jason hasn't been kept out of the playoffs by superior division opponents as had been the case with the 80's teams that had to fight NY and DC or the early 90's teams that had to fight all three (Cards not included of course), Jason has been kept out of the playoffs by his own (lack of )coaching skills and his crazy GM roster moves.

 

[birdwells1]

This basically shows that the NFC East has been weak for the last 3+ years which means we should have won the division at least once or twice. That 29-27 record would look a lot better if it was made up a couple of 11, 12, etc. win seasons. 8-8 is average so we avoid top draft picks and the playoffs all at the same time. I hate going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. I would rather go 10-6 or better or 6-10 or worse. At least we would get something out of it.

I agree, wouldnt you rather be the Texans right now.

 

[khiladi]

We did it, too, starting with a 1-7 team prior to that span. I agree, that Garrett's record is not as bad as people want to believe it is, for some reason. Each of the other teams has qualified for the playoffs as a division champion once during that span. It's not like we're particularly lagging behind the pack playing in the three division-deciding games. And we know what our problem has been each and every one of those seasons, and have our complement of draft picks and whatever cap resources we end up having available to fix it. Standing pat on the coaching staff is not the end of the world here in Dallas.

A team that had like 18 offensive TOs in eight games.... A team that bartered three draft picks to help Garrett's ailing offense with Roy Williams. A team that just got rid if it's dynamic number 1 WR.

The team prior also won a division title and playoff game prior as well as was 13-3. Got to love the math... Three years of 8-8 compared to one season at 1-7 for Wade, while ignoring the rest of it, as if Jason wasn't a part of it.

 

[khiladi]

Oh yeah, let's not forget Dallas epic collapses three years in a row, losing each time and not making the playoffs, because of each if these three teams.

All three times we lost a playoff spot to a different division rival...

 

[TheDude]

If only it were that easy.

Also, saying that 5-3 makes Garrett's record "not as bad as people want to believe" is hyperbole, 2 more wins doesn't change nearly as much as you might be alluding it does.

Considering that 2010 5-3 record included a last week win with Stephen McGee at QB playing against the Eagles who sat everybody.

 

[visionary]

I don't understand why everybody expects the Cowboys to outperform the rest of the division with an idiot at HC, a liability at GM, horrible cap management decisions by the FO, and a roster no better than that of the other three teams.

FIFY and agreed

 

[Idgit]

A team that had like 18 offensive TOs in eight games.... A team that bartered three draft picks to help Garrett's ailing offense with Roy Williams. A team that just got rid if it's dynamic number 1 WR.

The team prior also won a division title and playoff game prior as well as was 13-3. Got to love the math... Three years of 8-8 compared to one season at 1-7 for Wade, while ignoring the rest of it, as if Jason wasn't a part of it.

Of course he was a part of it. But that doesn't change the fact that 1-7 became 6-10 with Romo missing time when he took over the gig. No matter what had happened with the bartered offensive draft picks. That wasn't a 13-3 team JG took over, no matter how recently they had been competitive (the 13-3 season was in 2007).

 

[khiladi]

Of course he was a part of it. But that doesn't change the fact that 1-7 became 6-10 with Romo missing time when he took over the gig. No matter what had happened with the bartered offensive draft picks. That wasn't a 13-3 team JG took over, no matter how recently they had been competitive (the 13-3 season was in 2007).

He was always in control of the offense and nothing changed. Kitna still threw 12 picks and had 6 fumbles. Tony Romo had 11 TDs and 7 INTs and no fumbles and threw close to 70% in3 less games. He was 59 shy of Kitna in 3 less games, meaning well on his way to beating Kitna's output. Jason Garrett was't in charge of the defense, Paul was and that defense, while only generating 4 TOs during Wade's eight games, generated 27 when Kitna played. That is what 'turned' the season arund though it didn't do anything, because the season was over and JJ yelled to the team they were playing for jobs.

Paul ain't here, so if JJ wanted to hire a coach, he could have hired that bum. We now have had 3 years of JG and his overall body work sucks.

And the prior year, we again, went 11-5 and actually won a play-off game. In those first 8 games, we had 11 TOs and the defense generated 11 TOs. In 2010 we had 19 TOs in 8 games, meaning our offense kept handing the ball back to the defense in Wade's last year. We held 5 teams that last year during wade's last season to under 350 total yards. We lost to Minnesota when his defense held them to 188 total yards and generated a TO. The Commanders only had 250 total yards and we lost, scoring a whopping 7 points. 308 total yards with the Bears, with 38 rushing. Our offense turned the ball over 3 times.

Wade's defense was tired of this incompetent fool. We are still in the same rut.

 

[Idgit]

He was always in control of the offense and nothing changed. Kitna still threw 12 picks and had 6 fumbles. Tony Romo had 11 TDs and 7 INTs and no fumbles and threw close to 70% in3 less games. He was 59 shy of Kitna in 3 less games, meaning well on his way to beating Kitna's output. Jason Garrett was't in charge of the defense, Paul was and that defense, while only generating 4 TOs during Wade's eight games, generated 27 when Kitna played. That is what 'turned' the season arund though it didn't do anything, because the season was over and JJ yelled to the team they were playing for jobs.

Paul ain't here, so if JJ wanted to hire a coach, he could have hired that bum. We now have had 3 years of JG and his overall body work sucks.

And the prior year, we again, went 11-5 and actually won a play-off game. In those first 8 games, we had 11 TOs and the defense generated 11 TOs. In 2010 we had 19 TOs in 8 games, meaning our offense kept handing the ball back to the defense in Wade's last year. We held 5 teams that last year during wade's last season to under 350 total yards. We lost to Minnesota when his defense held them to 188 total yards and generated a TO. The Commanders only had 250 total yards and we lost, scoring a whopping 7 points. 308 total yards with the Bears, with 38 rushing. Our offense turned the ball over 3 times.

Wade's defense was tired of this incompetent fool. We are still in the same rut.

Not even sure how to respond to this stuff, khiladi. It's a bunch of stats that aren't really related to the argument. There's no getting around that a bad team performed a lot better with the HC change. I don't really believe you think it was because Coach P is a better coordinator that Wade Phillips.

And you the point of this thread is that JG has the team tied for most wins in the division under his tenure. You can't just conclude from that that the overall body of work 'sucks.' It doesn't suck, it's just not as good as any of us would like to see. That's an important difference.

 

[jujoboys]

Division records in the last 2 games of the season since Garrett took over:

NYG 6-2
Phi 4-4
Was 3-5
Dal 2-6

Dallas' record in the last 2 games while Garrett was HC and the playoffs were on the line:

Dallas 1-5

 

[Nation]

He's in his 70s.

I always focus on that when the team fails or he offers the media his latest gem.

My Grandfather was good for a six pack and a pack of cigarettes a day, and made it to 85. JJ is a millionaire who believes he is right all the time. Don't let him stress you too much, or he'll outlast you.

 

[Picksix]

I think any of the other coaches (other than maybe Reid) you mentioned walks away with the division with the Dallas roster and crazy owner/GM. Jason just isn't a good head coach, I think he is trying but isn't the right guy at the right time for this team. Jason hasn't been kept out of the playoffs by superior division opponents as had been the case with the 80's teams that had to fight NY and DC or the early 90's teams that had to fight all three (Cards not included of course), Jason has been kept out of the playoffs by his own (lack of )coaching skills and his crazy GM roster moves.

The roster we've played with the last three years really isn't that good. We've had som high end talent at a few positions, average talent at most, and weak talent at some. We've had plenty of players with more ne than game, and poor depth.

We have average talent, an average head coach, and an average front office. Thus, we have an average team.

 

[rcaldw]

I was messing around on Pro Football Reference earlier, and noticed some interesting stats looking back since Garrett took the reins halfway through the 2010 season.

Basically, division records since Garrett took over are as follows:

Dallas: 29-27
New York: 29-27
Philadelphia: 27-29
Washington: 20-36

Very surprising how close Dallas, New York and Philly are in terms of record since he took over. More surprising is that Garrett's reign is tied for best with New York in terms of W/L record. New York and Dallas are more steady year to year, whereas Washington and Philly have significant spikes in record.

Obviously, getting into the playoffs is all that matters, and Garrett has unequivocally failed at that. Just found it a bit interesting.

Team - 2010 (2nd half of season) - 2011 - 2012 - 2013
Dallas: 5-3 8-8 8-8 8-8
New York: 4-4 9-7 9-7 7-9
Philly: 5-3 8-8 4-12 10-6
Washington: 2-6 5-11 10-6 3-13

When will you and all the rest learn? It won't matter what stat you post that calls for a little sober analysis, the hate Garrett crowd will twist and turn it until it is a negative. In addition, they will use it to throw another fit throwing party complete with torches and a skewer that they can tie you to and put an apple in your mouth over a flaming fire.

 

[khiladi]

Not even sure how to respond to this stuff, khiladi. It's a bunch of stats that aren't really related to the argument. There's no getting around that a bad team performed a lot better with the HC change. I don't really believe you think it was because Coach P is a better coordinator that Wade Phillips.

And you the point of this thread is that JG has the team tied for most wins in the division under his tenure. You can't just conclude from that that the overall body of work 'sucks.' It doesn't suck, it's just not as good as any of us would like to see. That's an important difference.

How are they not related to the argument? Paul had 27 TOs in 8 games, Wade had 4. That is why the Cowboys won, plain and simple. That doesn't mean Paul is a better coordinator, just like it doesn't mean JG is a good coach. The season was over by then and Jerry Jones went buck-wild in the locker room. It was akin to Shanny saying the season is done last year, only to be followed by 7 straight wins. Lucky for them, they playedthe clown JG and got into te play-offs. Then, the collapsed this year and Garrett was fired.

And it does suck intoday's context cause each of those 3 other teams made the play-offs and the Giants won the SB. We on the other hand, just lose to them when it counts.

If you don't think that has any bearing on the argument, than your just being a homer.

 

[car351]

Some sad thoughts of mine;

Even if they went 6-10 vs 8-8, guess who is still picking that higher draft pick?

Better game management alone, wins the division outright each year.

A real OL wins the division in 2011/12. To roll a franchise QB out with that excuse of a line is a waste.

Any sort of Defensive depth probably would get you the division in 12 or 13. To have to trout out UDFA rookies and street guys is just poor management.


Get a good (not even great) game manager and a good (not even great) personal manager and this team should have won the East all three years going and not even been close. Thats not even getting into the play calling or offensive scheme issues.

Excellent, spot-on analysis Wolf.