NFC Power Rankings (W/Favre in Minny)

[Venger]

The other interesting thing about last year for them was that they needed to beat the Giants to get into the playoffs, if I remember correctly. They were behind most of the game, and think they won on a late FG against a Giant team that had absolutely nothing to play for. The Giants already had secured the 1 seed, I think. They rested a lot of players and not sure Eli played the entire game. So, I don't automatically think they are going to be winning that division this year. I actually think it will go down to the last week again with them and GB.

Can't argue with any of that - I think though that when you examine the Vikings, that QB position was such a boat anchor, that if they address it, it is definitely the kind of move that takes you up a notch. GB is always tough to gauge lately.

 

[Dodger]

It means the Cowboys have no track record of success or quality of play that is a rational basis on which to posit the notion they are a "top team".

And the Vikings do? Tell me what they have done to be ranked above the Cowboys.

Come on, really? You are seriously asking this? Because the respect a man gets for a Roger Dodger in a no-mask Navy football helmet as an avatar evaporates when "what does a team have to do to prove something" is tossed out like I have to explain the dynamics of how you postulate future events based on past performance.

Please. You're the one who stated the the Cowboys haven't proven (that's how the word is used in this context, by the way) anything yet and then placed the Vikings above the Cowboys because they apparently have, though I fail to see what it is that you think the Vikings have proven recently. Oh, and yapping about my avitar in a feeble attempt to discredit me is weak.

Damn, you are seriously asking this.... sigh. Is there a forum where people discuss things without belaboring pedantic banalities?

Just to answer you - yeah dude, they proved they can get to or close to the Super Bowl, so the next year, it's rational to, all things considered, place them high in your team ranking. But I suspect you know that, and are arguing...just to argue.

So, by your definition then, the Cowboys did prove something in 2007. Oh, wait...

the Cowboys have no track record of success or quality of play that is a rational basis on which to posit the notion they are a "top team"

Do you see now why I asked you this question? Or is it just your nature to respond to questions by attempting a lame put-down?

Using this utterly irrational and inane reasoning, the Raiders can be rationally placed above the Cowboys in likelyhood to win, because the ONLY boolean trait upon which you operate is

IF DoesWonSuperBowl=0 then Rank=RANDOM(int)

Hey, when you are unclear about your definitions, sometimes people have to guess...or ask questions in this case. Little good that did, though.

Because DoesWonSuperBowl=0 - this is how RainMan operates.

I'll take the way he operates over the way you operate any day.

Is there a reason we are operating on the 2007 team instead of 2008? Is there some point you are trying but failing to subtly make?

See above. If you still don't get it, then forget it.

My standard, clearly, is logic and reason based on past performance of this team and every team in the context of witnessing three decades of football and using the enormously powerful supercomputer the Lord blessed me with on top of my shoulders. When a team hasn't won a playoff game since the Clinton administration, when it has a consistent history of fading badly late in the season, when the last time the team had a chance to play to get into the playoffs they gave us a performance that deserves to go down as one of the most gutless, cowardly, effeminate, bedwetting, pantywaisted games in the history of human sporting, coached by someone who has zero control and has never had even a quantum of post season success, managed by a egomaniacal control freak, having lost it's best WR and demonstrably uneven defensive talent and performance - that team does not get highly ranked by me.

Is there a reason you are using three decades of football instead of 2008? Come on, "dude," if you're going to bash me for something, don't turn around and do the same thing yourself. Do you even proof-read before you hit the submit button?

You know what, nevermind. All I did was ask you a question, and for whatever reason you decided to respond with childish insults. But I guess that's your right to act like a 2 year old. Enjoy that.

 

[YosemiteSam]

And the Vikings do? Tell me what they have done to be ranked above the Cowboys.

Drafted better OLB, TEs, NTs, QB, LT, C, and CBs. The only thing the Cowboys have drafted better is RB cause Adrian Peterson is @#$%!

 

[SMCowboy]

I wouldn't give them the #1 spot. Using logic (mine or not). They have a solid defense but their QB is wholesale suspect and they have nobody to catch the ball.

That I agree with, why they are not in my TOP 5 in the NFC.

Be very careful using length of time without a playoff win as your judge, because the Cowboys would be what, ranked #30 in the league based on that?

I am not using length of time without a playoff win as my judgement, you are the one that is doing that.

Favre proved he cannot make a bad team good. But he made the Jets into a team worth watching. Hell, they went 8-3 before the Jets crashed (rock me!).

He made the Jets into a team worth watching, until his arm gave out on him, and he crashed, thus the Jets crashed. Like I said, Farve has got to prove that his arm can hold up to a full NFL season. Heck, even Farve himself at the news conference said his arm still does not feel 100%.....

You keep saying teams can't be the #1 team - you are making an argument conflating perfect with best. No team is perfect. Pointing out their imperfections doesn't mean they cannot be the best.

I am not saying that they have to be perfect, how about this for more SERIOUS questions.
#1.) Can McNabb stay healthy for a full year again.
#2.) Can Brian Westbrook stay healthy, as goes Westbrook so go the Eagles.
#3.) Can the new DC get the Eagles D playing near to the level that the late Jim Johnson did?
#4.) The Eagles OL will any of them play - Peters is injured ALREADY, and even if he is healthy, will the Jason peters from 2007 or the Jason Peters from 2008 be the Jason Peters that we see. If it is the Jason Peters from 2008, that is a HUGE hole in the OL. Not to mention Shawn Andrews back is already bothering him again. And we Cowboy fans know all to well, that back surgeries usually do NOT hold up well to football. Given that, it is not to much to wonder if he will even be able to play this year.
#5.) Who replaces Stewart Bradley, they have noone with any significant playing time behind him.

See above - you conflate perfect with best. Since all teams have flaws, none is the best? That is axiomatic failure of the first order.

I never said none could be the best since they all have major flaws. I said you have to judge how big the flaws are. The Cowboys have by far the most talented roster in the division. Lets not forget that the Cowboys went 13-3 in 2007. The big difference between the 2007 and 2008 teams, a HUGE rash of injuries, and the disfunctional locker room.

How do you make that Scooby Doo sound? Brrrewhhahaha??? Dallas doesn't have major question marks at talent? Come on people! We just kicked our #1 WR to the curb,

No, our #1 WR IS and always has been Jason Witten. Who we kicked to the curb, is a good WR who still thinks he is the #1 WR in football. Who thinks every pass should be thrown his way, and has the second worst set of hands of any WR in the NFL (Braylon Edwards takes that honor).

This #1 WR we kicked to the curb, barely put up TOP 30 NFL WR numbers, despite being in the TOP 10 is pass targets. And he is being replaced by a guy who PROVED in Detroit, that he CAN put up #1 WR numbers when healthy. And that was despite the fact that the only decent QB he ever had throwing him the ball is now out BACKUP QB.

our QB has a notorious habit of cratering end of year,

Does Romo have to prove he can play in December like he does in September, absolutely. But McNabb has to prove he can be healthy enough to even have a chance to PLAY in December at all. And Farve has to prove that his arm, that even HE admitted does not feel 100% can not only hold up for an entire NFL season, but that it can still get the zip on the ball that allows him to even be a decent NFL QB.

we have no depth on the OL,

WRONG, judging by the Preseason, Doug Free certainly can be a solid backup to Flozell Adams. And Cory Procter proved last year despite all our hand wringing, that the team can still win with him backing up at OG, and he is even better backup up at C. Not to mention we have Holland as our primary backup at OG. I feel MUCH better about our backup situation than other teams in the league.

or RB by committee was called out by the GM for not playing with injury,

We are by far the deepest team in the league at RB, with Barber, Jones and Choice. If you have any doubt about if Barber was actually injured last year, just watch when he did get the ball at the end of the year, he definately was not NEAR the same back he was early in the season. Jerry Jones wondering about Barbers injury is just one more example of what was TRUELY wrong with the 2008 Dallas Cowboys, the team was disfunctional. And that has been resolved, with the cutting of TO, Pacman, and Tank Johnson.

we are still trying to get the 3-4 to work here

Are you saying that the 3-4 didn't work here despite the fact that we were 8th in the League in Yards per game, last year, and 1st in the league in sacks? Not to mention, Wade Phillips our DC has proven he can run the 3-4 to perfection.

with many questionable positions on the defensive side, including in the secondary and along the LB corps - really, we don't have question marks on talent?

You think we have questions in our secondary, which of the following players has questionable talent in your mind?
Terrance Newman, Orlando Scandrick, Michael Jenkins, Ken Hamlin, Gerald Sensabaugh, go ahead name which one of those guys has questionable talent. And we also have Alan Ball who PROVED, against the Raiders, that he can certainly be a reasonable fill in at CB, and makes a GREAT #4 CB.

And what part of the LB corps are you questioning? Demarcus Ware, Keith Brooking, Bradie James, Anthony Spencer (who was playing well enough to make Greg Ellis dispensable).

Man, we have GOT to confiscate the rose colored glasses around these parts. I want them to turn the corner too, but part of progress is being realistic about where you are to begin with...

No, we have to look at see what we really have. Lets not forget that Dallas went 13-3 in 2007. And we IMPROVED at SS, backup TE, backup RB, CB depth from that team. With the only significant loss at all being TO who was replaced by Roy Williams. And given the numbers that TO was actually posting, they were NOT the type of numbers that you expect out of a WR that is among the league leaders in pass attempts coming his way. Are you saying that the move from TO to Roy Williams more than out weighs the additions of Felix Jones, Tashard Choice, Scandrick and Jenkins over Anthony Henry and Jacque Reeves, and Sensabaugh over Roy Williams?

What killed Dallas in 2008 had NOTHING to do with the talent, it had to do with an exuberant number of injuries, and a locker room that was dysfunctional.

 

[dbair1967]

Really? They went 10-6 and won their division last year with a large bag of nothing at QB. Favre doesn't have enough left to make a bad team good, but he sure as hell is better than what they were trotting out last year, and he has enough to make a good team better.

Favre's stats last yr...22 tds, 22 picks, 3472 yds 81.0 QB rating

Vikes QB's last yr (Frerotte and Jackson) 21 tds, 17 picks, approx 3200 yds, QB rating over 80.0

 

[Venger]

What killed Dallas in 2008 had NOTHING to do with the talent,

Sigh... nobody is at fault. Quickly, submit a patent for your excuse machine.

There was a time when men owned up to their success or failure. Not anymore. Now, it's the fault of all things but their own efforts.

it had to do with an exuberant number of injuries,

Thesaurus fail.

and a locker room that was dysfunctional.

I think this says it all. You just can't get fans to see things as they are. You've put the fan in fanatic.

I hope we don't have another exuberant amount of injuries this year...

Venger

 

[Idgit]

Sigh... nobody is at fault. Quickly, submit a patent for your excuse machine.

There was a time when men owned up to their success or failure. Not anymore. Now, it's the fault of all things but their own efforts.

It's perfectly reasonable (not to mention obvious) that the team didn't fail last year through lack of talent. That's not an excuse. It's an attempt to place the responsibility for failure where it belongs.

 

[SMCowboy]

Sigh... nobody is at fault. Quickly, submit a patent for your excuse machine.

There was a time when men owned up to their success or failure. Not anymore. Now, it's the fault of all things but their own efforts.


Thesaurus fail.


I think this says it all. You just can't get fans to see things as they are. You've put the fan in fanatic.

I hope we don't have another exuberant amount of injuries this year...

Venger

Maybe you need to get the facts. Last season had nothing to do with the talent on the field. The team Dallas fielded last year was basically the exact same team that went 13-3 in 2007. And was viewed by everyone the most talented team in football. But, there were two things that DID cost Dallas.

#1: Injuries:
Tony Romo
Marion Barber
Felix Jones
Kyle Kosier
Flozell Adams
Roy Williams
Terence Newman
Roy Williams
Matt McBriar

all either missed significant time, or were slowed by injuries last year. It is not NORMAL for teams to have that many injuries. Did Dallas have some issues with poor backup play, especially at QB, absolutely. But, if Philly had to go without:
McNabb for 3 games, and have him limited for the rest of the season
Brian Westbrook for basically 4 games
Asante Samuel for 6 games
Quintin Mikell for 14 games
Todd Herremans for most of the year

just to begin with, they would struggle to make the post season as well. That is a TON of talent to lose for a season. Not many teams can make the playoffs if they are hit that hard by injuries. Look no further than what losing Tom Brady meant to the Patriots last year.

#2.) Team Dysfunction
There was no doubt alot of team turmoil last year. Anyone who did not see that was simply blind. Is that an excuse, absolutely not, because the team was WRONG to setup a situation where there could be such dysfunction. Having Hard Knocks at Training Camp. Bringing in Pacman Jones, Tank Johnson and TO. Wade Phillips being super soft on everyone. But, make no mistake about it, that certainly did affect the teams play. And also led to the team QUITTING on Wade Phillips. That is the teams fault, but also Wade Phillips fault, he needs to have better control of the team than to allow them to quit like they did.

I am not excusing the team what happened. It IS the teams fault for having only Brad Johnson at backup QB. For having NOONE to backup Flozell Adams when he was attempting to play with 1 arm, for having no decent options to backup Roy Williams (or for having Roy Williams as a starting SS at all). For not having a better option than Cory Proctor to backup Kyle Kozier. That said, no team in football can sustain the injuries that we did and not have it affect their record atleast some.

And I also am in no way excusing the teams dysfunction, they are responsible for bringing in the players, and no matter how dysfunctional the team, there is no excuse for QUITTING like they did against Philly. That said, that all definitely DID have a MAJOR affect on the season.

Am I fan, absolutely. Do I attempt to see the positive in everything the Cowboys do, absolutely. But, you have to be either blind or stupid to think that a team can go threw as many injuries as we had last year and not have it affect your season at all.

 

[FloridaRob]

I guess I should've looked before I leaped, as they say. I didn't realize Rodgers had put up such good numbers last year, as I don't really follow Green Bay too closely. Let's see if that continues though before we annoint him a top QB.

looks like I am not the only one hyping Aaron Rodgers

one AFC scouts opinion puts him in "elite" company.

...
“[Green Bay’s] game against Cleveland was the only one that I saw most of the first quarter,” he said. “You can see how far he has come right away. His decisiveness and the way he goes through his [progressions]. I don’t want to overstate it, because he was a first-round pick. But he’s become a pretty special player.”


How special?


“I think he might be one of the two or three best quarterbacks under 30, and there are some good ones in that group,” the executive said. “I’d take him before [Jay] Cutler, who went to a Pro Bowl last year. Give him another season and I might even take him before Eli [Manning]. And that’s a 100-million-dollar guy with a [Super Bowl] ring – good company.”.....


http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news...slug=cr-packerscamp081809&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

[Sammy Baugh]

Here's Warren Sapp's take:
C.J., West Chester 04:05 PM ET
Hey Warren! The Eagles were a super bowl contender BEFORE Vick, so what does that mean now? I'm thinking Patriots-Eagles Super Bowl this year, your thoughts? Thanks man

Warren Sapp, NFL Network
Patriots? Yes. Eagles? Fifth on my list of the NFC teams. I have Minnesota, Washington, Atlanta and Cardinals.

http://chat.nfl.com/front/archived_chat/394

 

[Manster68]

Dallas' biggest problem the last couple of years has been between their ears. It certainly not a lack of talent.

I will give Parcells credit for teaching the scouting department how to find decent players in the later rounds. Some, like Jay Ratliff and Marion Barber, have made Pro Bowls.

 

[Fletch]

who won the last 2 times they played?

Say homes, you sure can comment on everyone else's list, but have no list of your own. Please share.

 

[Idgit]

Here's Warren Sapp's take:
C.J., West Chester 04:05 PM ET
Hey Warren! The Eagles were a super bowl contender BEFORE Vick, so what does that mean now? I'm thinking Patriots-Eagles Super Bowl this year, your thoughts? Thanks man

Warren Sapp, NFL Network
Patriots? Yes. Eagles? Fifth on my list of the NFC teams. I have Minnesota, Washington, Atlanta and Cardinals.

http://chat.nfl.com/front/archived_chat/394

I have only one of Sapp's teams on my own list.

 

[DallasDomination]

Maybe you need to get the facts. Last season had nothing to do with the talent on the field. The team Dallas fielded last year was basically the exact same team that went 13-3 in 2007. And was viewed by everyone the most talented team in football. But, there were two things that DID cost Dallas.

#1: Injuries:
Tony Romo
Marion Barber
Felix Jones
Kyle Kosier
Flozell Adams
Roy Williams
Terence Newman
Roy Williams
Matt McBriar

all either missed significant time, or were slowed by injuries last year. It is not NORMAL for teams to have that many injuries. Did Dallas have some issues with poor backup play, especially at QB, absolutely. But, if Philly had to go without:
McNabb for 3 games, and have him limited for the rest of the season
Brian Westbrook for basically 4 games
Asante Samuel for 6 games
Quintin Mikell for 14 games
Todd Herremans for most of the year

just to begin with, they would struggle to make the post season as well. That is a TON of talent to lose for a season. Not many teams can make the playoffs if they are hit that hard by injuries. Look no further than what losing Tom Brady meant to the Patriots last year.

#2.) Team Dysfunction
There was no doubt alot of team turmoil last year. Anyone who did not see that was simply blind. Is that an excuse, absolutely not, because the team was WRONG to setup a situation where there could be such dysfunction. Having Hard Knocks at Training Camp. Bringing in Pacman Jones, Tank Johnson and TO. Wade Phillips being super soft on everyone. But, make no mistake about it, that certainly did affect the teams play. And also led to the team QUITTING on Wade Phillips. That is the teams fault, but also Wade Phillips fault, he needs to have better control of the team than to allow them to quit like they did.

I am not excusing the team what happened. It IS the teams fault for having only Brad Johnson at backup QB. For having NOONE to backup Flozell Adams when he was attempting to play with 1 arm, for having no decent options to backup Roy Williams (or for having Roy Williams as a starting SS at all). For not having a better option than Cory Proctor to backup Kyle Kozier. That said, no team in football can sustain the injuries that we did and not have it affect their record atleast some.

And I also am in no way excusing the teams dysfunction, they are responsible for bringing in the players, and no matter how dysfunctional the team, there is no excuse for QUITTING like they did against Philly. That said, that all definitely DID have a MAJOR affect on the season.

Am I fan, absolutely. Do I attempt to see the positive in everything the Cowboys do, absolutely. But, you have to be either blind or stupid to think that a team can go threw as many injuries as we had last year and not have it affect your season at all.

I can agree with this...Termoil and Health was a huge issue last year. However most people dont like to admit this but This team has no accountability and Venger is right about something. These players do not own up to their failures. Both parties have legit views in my opinion.

 

[Jay]

Just a warning, this makes me want to puke, but.. yeah.

1. Philadelphia - Their defense is nasty, we will see what the loss of Jim Johnson will do to them but I feel as if it'll almost be motivation. I think a Jackson/Maclin/Curtis top 3 is a great WR crew, and Celek was great last season and has been impressing early in camp. I like them (hate them) a lot. Westbrook/Mccoy is a deadly duo.

2. Minnesota - There is a huge, huge, huge difference between Tavaris Jackson/Sage Rosenfels and Brett Favre--yes, even a 40 year old Favre. There is no stacking the box against this team, and they also have a ridiculously good defense, especially against the run. I feel they win that division rather easily.

3. Dallas - Homer pick? Maybe. But answer me this.. if we were in the NFC West, do you think we'd win it? If we were in the NFC South, do you think we'd win it? I think so, for both of them. I like our defense and I like our diversity on offense.

4. NY Giants - I feel the NFC East will snag both wildcard berths again.. their defense is going to be very tough to deal with. They'll have a good running game, who knows about their passing game, but I do like us more than them. I feel we finish a game or so ahead of them.

5. Atlanta - Ryan matures, Gonzalez is added, Jenkins/White seemed to become viable options last season. Just like where this team is headed.

So, yeah.. there's my top 5.

 

[casmith07]

My NFC Top 5

1. NYG
2. DAL
3. PHI
4/5. MIN/ARI/CAR/ATL/NO

 

[casmith07]

Here's Warren Sapp's take:
C.J., West Chester 04:05 PM ET
Hey Warren! The Eagles were a super bowl contender BEFORE Vick, so what does that mean now? I'm thinking Patriots-Eagles Super Bowl this year, your thoughts? Thanks man

Warren Sapp, NFL Network
Patriots? Yes. Eagles? Fifth on my list of the NFC teams. I have Minnesota, Washington, Atlanta and Cardinals.

http://chat.nfl.com/front/archived_chat/394

By the way, Warren Sapp doesn't know much outside of rushing the QB. Washington as a favorite before the Giants and Cowboys? LOL.

 

[SMCowboy]

I can agree with this...Termoil and Health was a huge issue last year. However most people dont like to admit this but This team has no accountability and Venger is right about something. These players do not own up to their failures. Both parties have legit views in my opinion.

If you read my post, in the Termoil section, I said part of the Termoil was because Wade Phillips had no control of the team, which is accountability. And I fully blamed Wade Phillips for that.