NFC Power Rankings (W/Favre in Minny)

SMCowboy

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DallasDomination;2891586 said:
Also How can anyone put the eagles over the Giants?...Giants have the best defense in the NFC and a slid Oline with a real good running game.

But the Giants have NO WR's. I would take the Eagles WR's minus Desean Jackson over the Giants WR's. That is the huge difference.

Lets not forget that despite the Giants OL and running game they were 1-3 last year without Plaxico Burress, with zero semblance of a passing game.
 

Rampage

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DallasDomination;2891586 said:
I like The vikings too but favre is a INT machine...Wouldnt surprise me if they finished 8-8 or 9-7 tops. But I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

Also How can anyone put the eagles over the Giants?...Giants have the best defense in the NFC and a slid Oline with a real good running game.
who won the last 2 times they played?
 

DallasDomination

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SMCowboy;2891613 said:
But the Giants have NO WR's. I would take the Eagles WR's minus Desean Jackson over the Giants WR's. That is the huge difference.

Lets not forget that despite the Giants OL and running game they were 1-3 last year without Plaxico Burress, with zero semblance of a passing game.

I will take a better defense and better Offensive line over a better passing game...They are both close to call though.
 

JBS

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FloridaRob;2891578 said:
The CArds will win their division by default. They could win it by going 7 and 9. San Fran, Seattle, and St Louis will be in the with the dregs of the league.

Don't be so sure about this. I would not be surprised to see Seattle take back their division crown.
 

AKATheRake

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DragonCowboy;2889961 said:
I think the Giants are very overrated at this point. I'd have to put Philly and maybe Dallas above New York right now. However, I think as the season goes by, Dallas will not only be a playoff contender, but will be in the thick of things in the NFC East during December.

I think the Vikings will have a very good team on paper, but I'd have to wait and see if that translates to the field. I agree that Brett Favre is better than any QB they have, but how will the team deal with all his interceptions?

Adrian Peterson is the star on that team and they run the football first with him. A lot too. Brett Favre said he was in the ideal situation because they can play ball control with their line and running game, plus they have one of the better defenses.

Peterson and Favre will benefit from one another greatly. Defenses have to worry about the deep ball with the old gunslinger and even more so have to account for AP's ablity to build yardage and break for big runs. Teams are going to try and see if Favre can beat thm first and foremost and will load up against AP.

Favre will have a line that can protect him and will be dealing with spotty coverages until he burns them. He knows Childress' system, he just needs to get acclimated with their personnel. This is a big lift for Minny. If his shoulder is 100% he can still play at a very high level. We know he will play all of the games under any circumstance.
 

YosemiteSam

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glorydaysrback;2891649 said:
Don't be so sure about this. I would not be surprised to see Seattle take back their division crown.

With JuJo at running back? :lmao2: :lmao:
 

Kilyin

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FloridaRob;2891550 said:
What do those six teams have in common. The best Qbs in the conference.

lol at Aaron Rodgers being a 'best QB in the conference'.
 

SMCowboy

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DallasDomination;2891639 said:
I will take a better defense and better Offensive line over a better passing game...They are both close to call though.

I am not so sure that the Giants Passing game is much better for a whole season than our passing game was last year with Brad Johnson at QB. Based on the games I saw from the Giants after Plaxico Burress went down, that is how bad their passing game looked.

And if that is indeed the case, it doesn't matter how good of a defense and running game that they have.
 

Venger

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FloridaRob;2891199 said:
who holds the money???

ain't gonna happen. Favre will pull a vintage FAvre in those games. He will be hyped out of his mind and play like he did the night Holmy came back to GB the 1st game. He won't make it thru the game.
Then the bet is accepted? You're on.

My word is good. If yours is not, then we can forget the bet. No need to escrow a $5 bet.
 

Venger

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The Dodger;2891528 said:
What does this mean, then?
It means the Cowboys have no track record of success or quality of play that is a rational basis on which to posit the notion they are a "top team". Why, because we like them?

What do teams have to do to prove something?
Come on, really? You are seriously asking this? Because the respect a man gets for a Roger Dodger in a no-mask Navy football helmet as an avatar evaporates when "what does a team have to do to prove something" is tossed out like I have to explain the dynamics of how you postulate future events based on past performance.

Do playoff teams that don't win the SB prove anything?
Damn, you are seriously asking this.... sigh. Is there a forum where people discuss things without belaboring pedantic banalities?

Just to answer you - yeah dude, they proved they can get to or close to the Super Bowl, so the next year, it's rational to, all things considered, place them high in your team ranking. But I suspect you know that, and are arguing...just to argue.

If not, then the Cowboys are just like every other non-SB winning team last year
Using this utterly irrational and inane reasoning, the Raiders can be rationally placed above the Cowboys in likelyhood to win, because the ONLY boolean trait upon which you operate is

IF DoesWonSuperBowl=0 then Rank=RANDOM(int)

in which case I find nothing wrong with ranking them above the likes of the Vikings if one is so inclined.
Because DoesWonSuperBowl=0 - this is how RainMan operates.

If so, then the 2007 Cowboys did prove something.
Is there a reason we are operating on the 2007 team instead of 2008? Is there some point you are trying but failing to subtly make?

I'm just wondering what your standard is here is all.
My standard, clearly, is logic and reason based on past performance of this team and every team in the context of witnessing three decades of football and using the enormously powerful supercomputer the Lord blessed me with on top of my shoulders. When a team hasn't won a playoff game since the Clinton administration, when it has a consistent history of fading badly late in the season, when the last time the team had a chance to play to get into the playoffs they gave us a performance that deserves to go down as one of the most gutless, cowardly, effeminate, bedwetting, pantywaisted games in the history of human sporting, coached by someone who has zero control and has never had even a quantum of post season success, managed by a egomaniacal control freak, having lost it's best WR and demonstrably uneven defensive talent and performance - that team does not get highly ranked by me.
 

FloridaRob

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Venger;2891715 said:
Then the bet is accepted? You're on.

My word is good. If yours is not, then we can forget the bet. No need to escrow a $5 bet.

I will give you double or nothing after the Packers win the 1st game.
 

Venger

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DallasDomination;2891586 said:
I like The vikings too but favre is a INT machine...Wouldnt surprise me if they finished 8-8 or 9-7 tops.
Really? They went 10-6 and won their division last year with a large bag of nothing at QB. Favre doesn't have enough left to make a bad team good, but he sure as hell is better than what they were trotting out last year, and he has enough to make a good team better.

It's like this at the Mavericks forums too... everyone overvalues what we have, and undervalues what everyone else has.

Venger
 

Venger

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FloridaRob;2891765 said:
I will give you double or nothing after the Packers win the 1st game.
Hmmmm... I ought to turn that down since I'm not sure I'd offer the same odds - since I think the second game is the harder to win. Let's see after the first game. Time to go check the Pack schedule...
 

FloridaRob

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Kilyin;2891668 said:
lol at Aaron Rodgers being a 'best QB in the conference'.

watch and learn. The Packers were 6 and 10 last year because of their defense. Rodgers led the team to game winning drives last year in several games only to see the defense let the other team run down the field and score or watch Mason Crosby miss field goals he should have made.

The ONLY question I have about Rodgers is his health. He has to stay healthy. For a 1st year starter, he had a great season and now with the FAvre situation removed, and a year behind him, and a defense that will be much improved, he will be successsfull. 4000 yards passing, 28 tds with 13 picks for a QB is great in any year, but for it being his 1st year, speaks volumes about his talent.
 

Kilyin

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FloridaRob;2891777 said:
watch and learn. The Packers were 6 and 10 last year because of their defense. Rodgers led the team to game winning drives last year in several games only to see the defense let the other team run down the field and score or watch Mason Crosby miss field goals he should have made.

The ONLY question I have about Rodgers is his health. He has to stay healthy. For a 1st year starter, he had a great season and now with the FAvre situation removed, and a year behind him, and a defense that will be much improved, he will be successsfull. 4000 yards passing, 28 tds with 13 picks for a QB is great in any year, but for it being his 1st year, speaks volumes about his talent.

I guess I should've looked before I leaped, as they say. I didn't realize Rodgers had put up such good numbers last year, as I don't really follow Green Bay too closely. Let's see if that continues though before we annoint him a top QB.
 

SMCowboy

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Venger;2891752 said:
It means the Cowboys have no track record of success or quality of play that is a rational basis on which to posit the notion they are a "top team". Why, because we like them?

Venger, using your logic, you can't give the Giants the #1 spot, because the only thing that they have proven, is that without Plaxico Burress, they have ZERO offense.

The Vikings can't get the #1 spot, because Farve proved last year that his arm can not take a full NFL season anymore, and the Vikings haven't won a playoff game since 2004, and that was with Dante Culpepper at QB.

The Eagles can't get the #1 spot, because they have yet to prove that they can win the Super Bowl. And McNabb has to prove that he can make it threw two straight seasons without an injury.

The Panthers can't be the #1 team, because they have to prove that they can have two back to back winning seasons, something they have YET to be able to do as a franchise.

The truth is ALL teams in the NFC have MAJOR question marks this year. The difference is, Dallas is the ONE team who's major question marks is not able the talent on the field, but instead how they will perform in December and January. To me that is alot less of a question mark than the talent that is on the field.
 

SMCowboy

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FloridaRob;2891777 said:
watch and learn. The Packers were 6 and 10 last year because of their defense. Rodgers led the team to game winning drives last year in several games only to see the defense let the other team run down the field and score or watch Mason Crosby miss field goals he should have made.

The ONLY question I have about Rodgers is his health. He has to stay healthy. For a 1st year starter, he had a great season and now with the FAvre situation removed, and a year behind him, and a defense that will be much improved, he will be successsfull. 4000 yards passing, 28 tds with 13 picks for a QB is great in any year, but for it being his 1st year, speaks volumes about his talent.

No doubt that Rodgers is one of the better QB's in the division. But, to say he is the best, it a bit of a reach. You also have Tony Romo (put up 4200 yards, 36 TD's, and 19 INT's) his first full year as a starter. Not to mention Jay Cutler is the signal caller in Chicago, and you can't forget Drew Brees in New Orleans (5,069 yards, 34 TD's, and 17 INT's last year). Not to mention Kurt Warner (4,583 yards, 30 TD's, 13 INT's).
 

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Venger;2891770 said:
Really? They went 10-6 and won their division last year with a large bag of nothing at QB. Favre doesn't have enough left to make a bad team good, but he sure as hell is better than what they were trotting out last year, and he has enough to make a good team better.

It's like this at the Mavericks forums too... everyone overvalues what we have, and undervalues what everyone else has.

Venger

The other interesting thing about last year for them was that they needed to beat the Giants to get into the playoffs, if I remember correctly. They were behind most of the game, and think they won on a late FG against a Giant team that had absolutely nothing to play for. The Giants already had secured the 1 seed, I think. They rested a lot of players and not sure Eli played the entire game. So, I don't automatically think they are going to be winning that division this year. I actually think it will go down to the last week again with them and GB.
 

FloridaRob

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SMCowboy;2891869 said:
No doubt that Rodgers is one of the better QB's in the division. But, to say he is the best, it a bit of a reach. You also have Tony Romo (put up 4200 yards, 36 TD's, and 19 INT's) his first full year as a starter. Not to mention Jay Cutler is the signal caller in Chicago, and you can't forget Drew Brees in New Orleans (5,069 yards, 34 TD's, and 17 INT's last year). Not to mention Kurt Warner (4,583 yards, 30 TD's, 13 INT's).

did not say he was the best. I said he was one of the best. I know as a Packer fan, there are not a lot of QB I would want right now over Aaron. Out of the group you mentioned, I would not want WArner or Cutler over Rodgers.
 

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SMCowboy;2891860 said:
Venger, using your logic, you can't give the Giants the #1 spot, because the only thing that they have proven, is that without Plaxico Burress, they have ZERO offense.
I wouldn't give them the #1 spot. Using logic (mine or not). They have a solid defense but their QB is wholesale suspect and they have nobody to catch the ball.

The Vikings can't get the #1 spot, because Farve proved last year that his arm can not take a full NFL season anymore, and the Vikings haven't won a playoff game since 2004, and that was with Dante Culpepper at QB.
Be very careful using length of time without a playoff win as your judge, because the Cowboys would be what, ranked #30 in the league based on that?

Favre proved he cannot make a bad team good. But he made the Jets into a team worth watching. Hell, they went 8-3 before the Jets crashed (rock me!).

The Eagles can't get the #1 spot, because they have yet to prove that they can win the Super Bowl. And McNabb has to prove that he can make it threw two straight seasons without an injury.
You keep saying teams can't be the #1 team - you are making an argument conflating perfect with best. No team is perfect. Pointing out their imperfections doesn't mean they cannot be the best.

The truth is ALL teams in the NFC have MAJOR question marks this year.
See above - you conflate perfect with best. Since all teams have flaws, none is the best? That is axiomatic failure of the first order.
The difference is, Dallas is the ONE team who's major question marks is not able the talent on the field,
How do you make that Scooby Doo sound? Brrrewhhahaha??? Dallas doesn't have major question marks at talent? Come on people! We just kicked our #1 WR to the curb, our QB has a notorious habit of cratering end of year, we have no depth on the OL, or RB by committee was called out by the GM for not playing with injury, we are still trying to get the 3-4 to work here with many questionable positions on the defensive side, including in the secondary and along the LB corps - really, we don't have question marks on talent?

but instead how they will perform in December and January. To me that is alot less of a question mark than the talent that is on the field.
Man, we have GOT to confiscate the rose colored glasses around these parts. I want them to turn the corner too, but part of progress is being realistic about where you are to begin with...
 
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