NFL.com coach rankings

[Diehardblues]

First of all, the HOF HC we had in Parcells wasn't the same coach that took the Pats and Giants to the SB. He had been retired for four years and had to be begged to come back to coaching. And note, after Dallas, he didn't take another job in coaching again.

Secondly, if you want to play the Parcells card, then let's be totally honest here. He took over a Cowboys team is way worse shape than Garrett was given. And went to the playoffs twice in 4 years compared to Garrett's two appearances in 7, when he took over a much better situation.

Thirdly, yes, even with Jones, there's always a chance the next could be better. The point of continuing down the road with Garrett beyond 2018 if he keeps delivering disappointing seasons isn't based in rational thinking. It's just yet another lame defense mechanism that the pro-Garrett crowd has conjured up to defend a guy who has bad a pretty mediocre 7 year run. Your last sentence is funny. So you have hope with Garrett in charge?

Of course Parcells was the same coach. That’s a laughable assumption . Lol

Parcells took over a strong defensive team with no offense or QB and it was #1 defense in 2003.

Garrett took over a team with a depleted defense, aging and injured DL & OL with a franchise QB , HOF TE and All Pro DE.

I’d call it pretty even. If Bill had Romo or Garrett had Bills defense might have had a serious contender.

Basically , I have little hope with Jerry. Garrett provides me more hope when he has more talent like in 2014 and 2016. Without that, no, wouldn’t have much hope.

 

[HungryLion]

Remember Bill had a top defense which carried Quincy.

My intent was not to bash Parcells for I believe he’s the best HC we’ve had since Jimmy resurrecting us from the ashes of 5-11 Campo and Jerry funk. 2003 was no doubt one of the best coaching jobs in Cowboy history and illustrates the importance of great coaching.

My bigger point is when evaluating the overall success with Bill vs Garrett is very similar under Jerry which is the basis of my argument that regardless our coaching it’s going to be compromised with Jerry’s control and why the end results have been similar.

Fair enough. I mean you don’t have to sell me on wanting an actual GM rather than Jerry continuing to do his thing. I would love it for that to happen.

 

[Diehardblues]

Well if you look at the names below him, some are retreads or guys with little to no track record. So no, it's probably unlikely guys with a track record will suddenly rocket up the listings. That's the problem with Garrett. He's got a pretty solid track record to date. Hence why most people outside of this franchise think he's an average coach in that 12-16 range.

Some others on the list are young guys, unproven guys, ranked low because they are simply unknowns. Garrett isn't an unknown. He's a known commodity.

But keep on ripping the talent on the team as a cover for the fact Garrett simply hasn't done a good enough job. It's downright bizarre that Jason Garrett is the hill some of you want to die on. You'll rip just about everything else around the franchise - owner, GM, talent - but Garrett? Nope. That's a guy who needs to be protected.

LOL.

I really don’t give us much hope with a slightly above average GM, HC, QB and defense.

 

[Sydla]

Of course Parcells was the same coach. That’s a laughable assumption . Lol

Parcells took over a strong defensive team with no offense or QB and it was #1 defense in 2003.

Garrett took over a team with a depleted defense, aging and injured DL & OL with a franchise QB , HOF TE and All Pro DE.

I’d call it pretty even. If Bill had Romo or Garrett had Bills defense might have had a serious contender.

Basically , I have little hope with Jerry. Garrett provides me more hope when he has more talent like in 2015 and 2016. Without that, no, wouldn’t have much hope.

Oh so coaches don't burn out, lose their effectiveness? They do.

Parcells most definitely did not take over a strong defensive team. Parcells took over in 2003. The 2002 Cowboys were 13th in scoring defense and the 2001 Cowboys were 20th in scoring defense. So no, he didn't inherit a dominant defensive team.

If you are really trying to argue that Garrett inherited a worse situation (or similar), then there is no point in anyone debating you again on this topic. Because it's obvious you have no desire to debate honestly.

 

[Diehardblues]

Fair enough. I mean you don’t have to sell me on wanting an actual GM rather than Jerry continuing to do his thing. I would love it for that to happen.

It’s not only Jerry as GM that’s a problem but it’s his meddling not allowing the HC to have more control which even derailed Bill and why most likely other good coaches won’t want anything to do with us. Who could blame them unless they can’t land a job elsewhere ?

 

[Sydla]

I really don’t give us much hope with a slightly above average GM, HC, QB and defense.

Yet you defend the status quo. The GM isn't changing.

So your response to that is........... well if we can't change the GM, then damn, let's not change the coach if he spits the bit again.

LOL.

 

[Diehardblues]

Oh so coaches don't burn out, lose their effectiveness? They do.

Parcells most definitely did not take over a strong defensive team. Parcells took over in 2003. The 2002 Cowboys were 13th in scoring defense and the 2001 Cowboys were 20th in scoring defense. So no, he didn't inherit a dominant defensive team.

If you are really trying to argue that Garrett inherited a worse situation (or similar), then there is no point in anyone debating you again on this topic. Because it's obvious you have no desire to debate honestly.

He inherited enough talent on defense he could shape it with good drafts which illustrates how critical it is to have great coaching.

I retain my position in how I described their situations. Garrett took over a 6-10 team that was marginally overall better than the 5-11 team Bill took over with the exceptions I mentioned.

 

[dfense]

There are alot of things wrong with this list. But that's just my opinion. It is funny how many people hate a coach who was just coach of the year. He managed to beat almost every team he faced with a 5th round rookie QB. But he gets zero credit for that. People want it both ways. Dak wins despite coaching, or bad coaching when Dak is only average.

He loses his RT to retirement, his starting guard, his LT to injury and his workhorse RB. His rookie QB comes back to earth his sophomore year, partly due to lackluster line play. He has basically a rookie secondary after releasing most of their DB's. And it's all Garrett's fault. You could argue he did better than expected last year. It's really a no win situation for him. He can only coach what is given to him. Bad backup QBs, poor depth, etc are not his fault. He has to play the hand he is dealt.

No doubt, most "experts" will see a .500 or worse season this year. When Dallas does better, and they will, you can bet Garrett wont get any credit.

 

[dfense]

Yea.. and why I’m so concerned with Dak.

A slightly above average QB with a slightly above average HC isn’t a recipe for success especially with a slightly above average defense.

I think the Dfense is going to be a pleasant surprise this year.

 

[Diehardblues]

Yet you defend the status quo. The GM isn't changing.

So your response to that is........... well if we can't change the GM, then damn, let's not change the coach if he spits the bit again.

LOL.

I’m all for a new HC if I thought there was a better option within Jerry’s ways.

 

[Sydla]

He inherited enough talent on defense he could shape it with good drafts which illustrates how critical it is to have great coaching.

I retain my position in how I described their situations. Garrett took over a 6-10 team that was marginally overall better than the 5-11 team Bill took over with the exceptions I mentioned.

Oh so now he inherited enough talent that he could reshape it with good drafts? LOL. So in other words, he built a good defense through his drafts and actually didn't really inherit a really good defense like you claimed 15 minutes earlier.

You are floundering now.

Garrett took over a 6-10 team that had a franchise QB and a hall of fame pass rusher. That alone gave him a leg up on Parcells.

 

[Diehardblues]

I fell we’ve come too far to abort now and keep spinning the wheel as we had most of this era.

IMO Jason provides us the best opportunity with Jerry’s ways. Only a total collapse would change my view but I’m also very concerned Dak is enough to help elevate Garrett as Romo did.

 

[Sydla]

I’m all for a new HC if I thought there was a better option within Jerry’s ways.

So as I said, just continue down the same road with the same coaches spitting out the same results?

Makes sense.

 

[Sydla]

I fell we’ve come too far to abort now and keep spinning the wheel as we had most of this era.

IMO Jason provides us the best opportunity with Jerry’s ways. Only a total collapse would change my view but I’m also very concerned Dak is enough to help elevate Garrett as Romo did.

Based on what?

Do you know who might want the job if there was an opening? Do you know who definitely wouldn't want the job?

Unless you can answer those questions, you really have no idea whether or not Jason Garrett gives the Cowboys the best chance to succeed under Jerry.

 

[Diehardblues]

Oh so now he inherited enough talent that he could reshape it with good drafts? LOL. So in other words, he built a good defense through his drafts and actually didn't really inherit a really good defense like you claimed 15 minutes earlier.

You are floundering now.

Garrett took over a 6-10 team that had a franchise QB and a hall of fame pass rusher. That alone gave him a leg up on Parcells.

It’s marginal IMO. A franchise QB vs a top defense. Bill big miss during his tenure was not drafting a top QB. It left us desperate for has beens like Drew and Vinny.

 

[Diehardblues]

Based on what?

Do you know who might want the job if there was an opening? Do you know who definitely wouldn't want the job?

Unless you can answer those questions, you really have no idea whether or not Jason Garrett gives the Cowboys the best chance to succeed under Jerry.

Based on the kind of coaches we’ve had. What gives you confidence it would be anyone better?

What good coach wants a situation without more control? It’s a ticket to failure and frustration.

 

[Sydla]

It’s marginal IMO. A franchise QB vs a top defense. Bill big miss during his tenure was not drafting a top QB. It left us desperate for has beens like Drew and Vinny.

Parcells didn't inherit a top defense. You can continue to try to claim that but it's erroneous because there is little statistical evidence to back your statement.

 

[Sydla]

Based on the kind of coaches we’ve had. What gives you confidence it would be anyone better?

What good coach wants a situation without more control? It’s a ticket to failure and frustration.

I don't have a ton of confidence the next guy will be great. It's hard to hire a great coach.

But I have a significant amount of confidence Garrett will not be a great coach given we've seen him now for 7+ years. So, another missed playoffs in 2018 and I am will to take that risk. It's pointless at that point to go into a 9th season with Garrett in charge.

 

[Diehardblues]

Parcells didn't inherit a top defense. You can continue to try to claim that but it's erroneous because there is little statistical evidence to back your statement.

He inherited enough talent on defense to mold it into a top defense . How else would you explain a top defense in 2003?

 

[LocimusPrime]

I have to disagre. Tomlin has a super bowl win, another Super Bowl appearance, 8 total playoff wins and a much better winning percentage than Garrett. It’s not close between the two.

John Harbaugh has a Super Bowl championship, 10 playoff wins and a better winning percentage than Garrett.

I mean McCarthy has Rodgers I’ll give you that, but his amount of success also far surpasses Garrett.

There is no way, to reasonably argue that Garrett is a better coach than any of those guys.

Fair points