NFL Implements New Ball Handling Procedures

[joseephuss]

The calculations and results will include an error term. You can account for an error term and still be considered "100% in line" with expected results as well as prior results. That's why the real world gives a range within which the balls should be, instead of one single, set value.

Sure looks an awful lot like you're worried that a random test this season might prove that a decrease of roughly 1.25 PSI is perfectly normal in a game played in rainy, upper-40's conditions. Why is that?

I'm not worried about anything.

 

[Rogah]

I'm not worried about anything.

Well you sure seem pretty darn worried about the idea that testing the balls this year will show that the Patriots balls from the AFCCG were 100% in line with both the laws of physics and what is typical for the rest of the league in similar conditions.

All the above is not to mention the mind blowing possibility that on really cold days in GB or Minny, a loss of 2.5 PSI would be typical. So if an average loss of 1.25 PSI merits a 4 month, $5 million independent investigation, then what will a loss of TWICE that amount entail??!!

 

[burmafrd]

of all the homers Rogah you take the cake.

I wonder just how you can look yourself in the face when spewing all the BS.

You so carefully ignore Brady's lies. You so carefully ignore your teams past cheating. Which means you will NEVER get any benefit of the doubt and deservedly so. Once a cheater ALWAYS a cheater. And your truly ridiculous claims as regards physics (which clearly are about as understandable to you as the darkside of the moon) is just the cherry on top.

 

[Rogah]

of all the homers Rogah you take the cake.

I wonder just how you can look yourself in the face when spewing all the BS.

You so carefully ignore Brady's lies. You so carefully ignore your teams past cheating. Which means you will NEVER get any benefit of the doubt and deservedly so. Once a cheater ALWAYS a cheater. And your truly ridiculous claims as regards physics (which clearly are about as understandable to you as the darkside of the moon) is just the cherry on top.

Everything I have said about the physics of the situation is 100% factual. I have challenged every single member of the forum to do the calculations themselves and, for some reason, no one has accepted the challenge.

Your lies and personal attacks do nothing to change the laws of physics. If my physics are wrong, tell us all how. Put up or shut up time.

(Don't worry, everyone knows you have nothing you can put up but also lack the decency to shut up, so we all look forward to your next nonsensical reply with personal attacks and lies)

 

[BoysFan4ever]

of all the homers Rogah you take the cake.

I wonder just how you can look yourself in the face when spewing all the BS.

You so carefully ignore Brady's lies. You so carefully ignore your teams past cheating. Which means you will NEVER get any benefit of the doubt and deservedly so. Once a cheater ALWAYS a cheater. And your truly ridiculous claims as regards physics (which clearly are about as understandable to you as the darkside of the moon) is just the cherry on top.

Preach!

 

[joseephuss]

Well you sure seem pretty darn worried about the idea that testing the balls this year will show that the Patriots balls from the AFCCG were 100% in line with both the laws of physics and what is typical for the rest of the league in similar conditions.

!

Where did you come up with that conclusion? I have said or shown nothing to indicate that I am worried at all about them testing the footballs or what the results will be. I'm not against these procedures and the results will be what they will be. You are the one worried about the future data and already jumping to conclusions about these possible results. So much so that you are willing to ignore Brady lying about not even knowing who McNally was.

 

[Rogah]

If my physics are wrong, tell us all how. Put up or shut up time.

<crickets chirping>

 

[Rogah]

Where did you come up with that conclusion? I have said or shown nothing to indicate that I am worried at all about them testing the footballs or what the results will be. I'm not against these procedures and the results will be what they will be. You are the one worried about the future data and already jumping to conclusions about these possible results.

Whuh huh? Do I sound like I'm worried about the upcoming testing?? I can't wait for the upcoming testing..!! You're the one saying "there's no such thing as having results 100% in line and who cares what the laws of physics say when we have these mildly contradictory statements..."

You're getting your preemptive excuse making in now, perhaps because you know what the results will be?

So much so that you are willing to ignore Brady lying about not even knowing who McNally was.

I am not ignoring anything. I, along with every other intelligent person on the planet, consider the actual forensic evidence significantly more important that 2 mildly inconsistent statements made months apart whereby a superstar QB got confused about the identity of the part time locker room attendant.

You, however, are ignoring the fact that the laws of physics aren't on your side here.

By the way, if you're so interested in lies, why are you ignoring the 2 whoppers told by the NFL office? Doesn't that concern you in the slightest? Or is it ok for the league office to lie, so long as the "right team" is the one being lied about?

 

[Longboysfan]

Ahhhh... No.
The information showed differend.
My guess is Brady clutches his balls a lot harder than most.
He squishes the air out of them.

 

[Rogah]

Ahhhh... No.
The information showed differend.
My guess is Brady clutches his balls a lot harder than most.
He squishes the air out of them.

Uh, ok...

 

[joseephuss]

Starting Temperature 70 degrees
Starting gauge pressure is 12.5 psi
Halftime temperature 50 degrees
Halftime pressure calculated by ideal gas law is expected to be 11.47 psi

 

[Rogah]

Starting Temperature 70 degrees
Starting gauge pressure is 12.5 psi
Halftime temperature 50 degrees
Halftime pressure calculated by ideal gas law is expected to be 11.47 psi

That's correct. Using your own calculations, you obviously agree that when you start at 12.5 PSI, it is fair to say a 20 degree drop will reduce your air pressure by roughly 1 PSI. However, let's face it, there is a lot of uncertainty in the above. We don't really know what the room temperature was when the balls were originally measured. Also, it is the gametime temperature that was 50 degrees, not the halftime temperature.

No one seems to know for sure how much the temperature dropped in the 2 hours between when the game was scheduled to begin and when halftime began, but given that we are talking about New England in January at night, I think it's safe to say the temperature probably dropped another 3-4 degrees. All of a sudden, the actual measurements of the balls are in range with where the Ideal Gas Law predicts they should be.

So like the AEI graphic proves, the balls were in range of where they are scientifically predicted to be. I'd say that's a pretty important fact, wouldn't you?

 

[Nightman]

But according to the Wells report the balls were brought back into the "heated" officials locker room before they were tested.

In fact they ran out of time and had to delay the second half. So wouldn't that mean the balls were "re-inflated" by going back into a warm environment for 20 minutes. And they still tested 1psi below the lower limits.

And the balls were re-inflated to 13psi and then brought outside and for the second half and none of them lost pressure when tested after the game.

 

[joseephuss]

That's correct. Using your own calculations, you obviously agree that when you start at 12.5 PSI, it is fair to say a 20 degree drop will reduce your air pressure by roughly 1 PSI. However, let's face it, there is a lot of uncertainty in the above. We don't really know what the room temperature was when the balls were originally measured. Also, it is the gametime temperature that was 50 degrees, not the halftime temperature.

No one seems to know for sure how much the temperature dropped in the 2 hours between when the game was scheduled to begin and when halftime began, but given that we are talking about New England in January at night, I think it's safe to say the temperature probably dropped another 3-4 degrees. All of a sudden, the actual measurements of the balls are in range with where the Ideal Gas Law predicts they should be.

So like the AEI graphic proves, the balls were in range of where they are scientifically predicted to be. I'd say that's a pretty important fact, wouldn't you?

I've never disagreed that the pressure will drop in the footballs.

The Wells report listed the temperatures of when the footballs were first tested(67-71) and the temperature at halftime(48). The game time temperature was 51 at the start.

What I find significant is that the Patriot footballs that were tested exhibited lower pressure than those of the Colts footballs that were also tested. Also that the pressure of the Patriots footballs measured at a lower reading than predicted by the Ideal Gas Law while the Colts footballs measured at a slightly higher reading than predicted by the calculations.

By the way, you can try not be so condescending when discussing this topic. I can decide for myself what I find to be the important facts.

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

This rule won't change much except one thing - it's going to put a damper on the conspiracy theories about ball inflation. A number of QBs such as Rodgers have commented about it.

Nearly every fan thinks their team is picked on by the NFL front office and one of their rivals get preferential treatment - that can't be true. Reality is NFL 'justice' is very uneven.

All teams in any pro sport bend/break rules. It's because I have yet to meet a perfect person....nearly every person I know or follow has something about them that will disappoint me - even Tom Landry. Of course there are unscrupulous people like Skip Bayless that character assassinated one of the best sports role models in a book - I reject Bayless' judgement. I don't like or condone cheating, but everybody does that and other things...anyone ranting I condone cheating is deep into another vice called dishonesty.

Back in 2006 if I were the new NFL commissioner, I would do more than blindly follow David Stern's lead in the NBA of punishing the boys behaving badly. Like a competent HR department, I'd have a committee go thru various situations and formulate procedures and penalties in advance. No guessing public opinion - the most comical example being the Ray Rice suspension. I'd also investigated the Patriots in general years ago to settle the suspicion of cheating. Either there would be proof like the type that caused Lance Armstrong's downfall or dismissed to a haters myth on the level of a flat Earth and faked Moon landings.

 

[Rogah]

But according to the Wells report the balls were brought back into the "heated" officials locker room before they were tested.

The Patriots balls were tested immediately, before they had the chance to warm up. Then they were reinflated, then the 4 Colts balls were tested. The Colts balls had the chance to warm up.

And the balls were re-inflated to 13psi and then brought outside and for the second half and none of them lost pressure when tested after the game.

Your chronology is significantly mixed up.

 

[Rogah]

I've never disagreed that the pressure will drop in the footballs.

So then what exactly is the problem here?

What I find significant is that the Patriot footballs that were tested exhibited lower pressure than those of the Colts footballs that were also tested.

Well, as demonstrated, the Colts balls had the chance to warm up.

Of course, all this is not to mention the absolute cluster-bleep regarding the 2 gauges where they don't know which was used pregame, the whole thing relied on Andersen's memory of the pregame gauge reading BUT they threw away his best recollection of which gauge he used.

The Wells Report relied heavily on Andersen's memory to go after the Patriots, but for some completely nonsensical reason, they disregard his memory on the one thing that would have worked in the Patriots' favor. I wonder why that is.......

Also that the pressure of the Patriots footballs measured at a lower reading than predicted by the Ideal Gas Law

Not true. If you average all 12 Patriots balls, they are within the predicted range of the Ideal Gas Law.

while the Colts footballs measured at a slightly higher reading than predicted by the calculations.

Yes that happened when they warmed up.

By the way, you can try not be so condescending when discussing this topic. I can decide for myself what I find to be the important facts.

I am throwing around a mere fraction of the insults, personal attacks and condescending remarks that I receive.

 

[AtlCB]

I've never disagreed that the pressure will drop in the footballs.

The Wells report listed the temperatures of when the footballs were first tested(67-71) and the temperature at halftime(48). The game time temperature was 51 at the start.

What I find significant is that the Patriot footballs that were tested exhibited lower pressure than those of the Colts footballs that were also tested. Also that the pressure of the Patriots footballs measured at a lower reading than predicted by the Ideal Gas Law while the Colts footballs measured at a slightly higher reading than predicted by the calculations.

By the way, you can try not be so condescending when discussing this topic. I can decide for myself what I find to be the important facts.

When you are losing an argument, condescension can be an effective tool.

 

[Nightman]

The Patriots balls were tested immediately, before they had the chance to warm up. Then they were reinflated, then the 4 Colts balls were tested. The Colts balls had the chance to warm up.
Your chronology is significantly mixed up.

It was reported that all of the balls were re-inflated at halftime and none lost pressure like the balls NE used in the first half when they were tested immediately after the game.

 

[Nightman]

The Patriots balls were tested immediately, before they had the chance to warm up. Then they were reinflated, then the 4 Colts balls were tested. The Colts balls had the chance to warm up.
Your chronology is significantly mixed up.

The Colts balls were tested within seconds of the Pats balls and both were tested well into the 13 minute halftime. Plenty of time for both to warm up inside a bag.

If your theory was true then NE balls would have registered higher readings as they warmed up but the results showed the opposite to be true. The reading were getting lower at they went on.