NFL Penalizing Salary Cap for Cowboys and Commanders

[Cowboysfan570]

The ones that AdamJT and Hoofbite laid out earlier in this thread.

Okay, I just went through and searched this whole thread (since you must have missed the 10+ pages where this was all discussed):

Hoofbite:

http://i5.***BLOCKED***/albums/y188/thehoofbite/Untitled1-1.jpg

Peppers' is particularly damning. Magically the guy's cap hit drops by over $21 million as soon as a salary cap is back in place?

Jackson, Schaub, and Peters are also pretty glaring there. If this ever gets to court, it would seem to be at least (IANAL) that those could be pointed to as proof that the punishment was arbitrary in nature.

 

[hutch1254]

I think what amazes me the most is the timing of this thing. It took the NFL all this time to figure it out and now they roll it out to both team about 24 hours before free agency? It's almost like the timing is part of the punishment, along with the stated monetary amounts.

Also, if the Skins had any idea this was coming do you think the Skins would have still traded with the Rams?

How does this impact potential free agents wanting to come here? Some may not even bother making a call or taking our call. It could happen.

10 mil isn't too bad for us but wow, 36 mil for the Skins plus their trade...they better hope RG3 turns to gold.

And lastly, this whole thing is just a huge load.

 

[Pabst]

The more I read about this, the more I think the punishments will be rescinded or blocked.

If this is taken to court, the NFL will lose. They have no legal leg to stand on. A lot of dirty laundry will get aired, and that will look very bad for the league.

I think it's very telling that both the Cowboys and Commanders gave statements to the effect of "We conducted all contracts legally, and have not received any written penalties so far."

I think that's them telling the league "You have time to clean this crap up before we file an injunction tomorrow morning and then take your ***** to court."

 

[DasTex]

The ones that AdamJT and Hoofbite laid out earlier in this thread.

Okay, I just went through and searched this whole thread (since you must have missed the 10+ pages where this was all discussed):

AdamJT13:




Hoofbite:

http://i5.***BLOCKED***/albums/y188/thehoofbite/Untitled1-1.jpg

It's called the

 

[dreghorn2]

The ones that AdamJT and Hoofbite laid out earlier in this thread.

Okay, I just went through and searched this whole thread (since you must have missed the 10+ pages where this was all discussed):

AdamJT13:




Hoofbite:

http://i5.***BLOCKED***/albums/y188/thehoofbite/Untitled1-1.jpg

Hey thanks for searching back for that..

i don't know why the league feels there is a distinction between those moves and the ones DAL and WASH made -- but they do.

I am hoping those questions are asked and soon but the fact remains the same, the rest of the league are out to get Jerry and Danny.

 

[Nightman]

But didn't Dallas convert Austin's $7.8m of his $8.5m base salary in 2011 to a signing bonus that was spread out over the 5 years remaining. So his base salary went from $17m to $685k from 2010 to 2011, but his 2012 cap hit is only $2.5M.

 

[DasTex]

I think what amazes me the most is the timing of this thing. It took the NFL all this time to figure it out and now they roll it out to both team about 24 hours before free agency? It's almost like the timing is part of the punishment, along with the stated monetary amounts.

Also, if the Skins had any idea this was coming do you think the Skins would have still traded with the Rams?

How does this impact potential free agents wanting to come here? Some may not even bother making a call or taking our call. It could happen.

10 mil isn't too bad for us but wow, 36 mil for the Skins plus their trade...they better hope RG3 turns to gold.

And lastly, this is whole thing is just a huge load.

Timing is based off the fact that it would be less likely for this to be taken to court or appealed. They can't just wait or majority of the FA's would be gone. Basically a way to shove it to both teams

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yep so do i.

As far as last minute stuff, i can't imagine a scenario where Goodell and the other owners would not know that this decision, and the timing of its release, would not cause a significant stir.

I am sure they have discussed for some time all the possible scenarios that DAL and WASH might place before them as they react to the ruling.

I think they mean business.

of course they mean business. they have moved forward with this. the issue is whether they contractually or legally have a basis for doing this. they are trying to enforce a CBA that they had voided.

Whether or not they means business has nothing to do with whether or not Snyder or Jones call and have their Minnesota retainer to put something together to be in district court by wednesday. Snyder has nothing to lose at this point.

 

[JonJon]

Timing is based off the fact that it would be less likely for this to be taken to court or appealed. They can't just wait or majority of the FA's would be gone. Basically a way to shove it to both teams

Both teams could theoretically decide to dump all of the penalties into next years cap, which would leave plenty of time for court and also wouldn't harm this years free agency.

 

[dreghorn2]

of course they mean business. they have moved forward with this. the issue is whether they contractually or legally have a basis for doing this. they are trying to enforce a CBA that they had voided.

Whether or not they means business has nothing to do with whether or not Snyder or Jones call and have their Minnesota retainer to put something together to be in district court by wednesday. Snyder has nothing to lose at this point.

Meaning business says that they have considered a legal challenge from either team, and have essentially dismissed it.

They feel confident in the courts or in the back room pressure they can put on either owner.

Wonder if they are right.

 

[DasTex]

Both teams could theoretically decide to dump all of the penalties into next years cap, which would leave plenty of time for court and also wouldn't harm this years free agency.

For Dallas, yes - but no way Washington takes that big of a hit next year.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Meaning business says that they have considered a legal challenge from either team, and have essentially dismissed it.

They feel confident in the courts or in the back room pressure they can put on either owner.

Wonder if they are right.

Dismissed it? How do you figure that?

I am sure they considered getting sued last year too by the NFLPA. You act as if the league has not gotten their ***** handed to them in court recently. American Needle they lost and they were going to lose when push came to shove in the antitrust.

Rather then make predictions that are based on absolutely nothing about what they have or have not figured, why don't we remain in the realm of things we actually do know.

 

[dreghorn2]

Dismissed it? How do you figure that?

I am sure they considered getting sued last year too by the NFLPA. You act as if the league has not gotten their ***** handed to them in court recently. American Needle they lost and they were going to lose when push came to shove in the antitrust.

Rather then make predictions that are based on absolutely nothing about what they have or have not figured, why don't we remain in the realm of things we actually do know.

Who is making predictions?

You think they go ahead and do this if they thought they risked a potential game changing anti-trust lawsuit or collusion charges.

Ok, maybe you are right, the NFL owners, their lawyers, and the commissioner are idiots.

Once again, hope you are right.

 

[trickblue]

LOL. You are one of my favorite contributors to the zone.

Nice to see we have quality thinkers on board here...

Genius isn't always recognized by the layman...

You, sir, get it...

 

[Staxxxx]

So according to the latest to come out on this this decision was made by the NFL's Management Council Executive Committee. A little research shows that the Giants John Mara is the committee chairman. I couldn't find a site that listed all of the members but did find that the packers Mark Murphy serves on the committee and apparently so does Jerry Jones. So in a nutshell the head of the Cowboys and Commanders jury is a division rival. One team that gets a free pass by the committee is on that committee as is one that gets their hands slapped. Man the plot just continues to thicken.

http://articles.boston.com/2011-10-20/sports/30302876_1_john-mara-committee-structure-bob-mcnair

New York Giants owner John Mara was appointed chairman of the NFL Management Council, the league’s most powerful committee.

Commissioner Roger Goodell announced Thursday several changes to the leadership of league committees, with Mara replacing Panthers owner Jerry Richardson as head of the Management Council, which is the main NFL labor committee

http://www.packers.com/team/staff/mark-murphy/1e6572d2-1c0e-496c-8743-9a15333aed42

Mark Murphy Biography

• Serves on the NFL’s Management Council Executive Committee

Serves on the NFL’s Management Council Executive Committee

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/c...-cowboys-punishments-to-be-split-over-2-years

The annual figures represent half of their punishments and were imposed because there was a feeling among the NFL's Management Council Executive Committee that penalizing the clubs the entire amounts in one season would be too harsh.

Dallas owner Jerry Jones is a member of mittee.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Who is making predictions?

You think they go ahead and do this if they thought they risked a potential game changing anti-trust lawsuit or collusion charges.

Ok, maybe you are right, the NFL owners, their lawyers, and the commissioner are idiots.

Once again, hope you are right.

its called a calculated risk and again you act as if the NFL has not gone down that path. i have no idea who thought what or who is driving this issue. Neither do you so please just stop with the pie in the sky generalizations.

Maybe you think the logic of 'these people who i am just assuming are involved cannot be that stupid therefor this is going to stick' has any place here but i will pass on it.

Come up with a worthwhile point and i will respond otherwise the last word is yours.

 

[Hoofbite]

So according to the latest to come out on this this decision was made by the NFL's Management Council Executive Committee. A little research shows that the Giants John Mara is the committee chairman. I couldn't find a site that listed all of the members but did find that the packers Mark Murphy serves on the committee and apparently so does Jerry Jones. So in a nutshell the head of the Cowboys and Commanders jury is a division rival. One team that gets a free pass by the committee is on that committee as is one that gets their hands slapped. Man the plot just continues to thicken.

From what I have read, each team has a representative and the all actions or decisions are voted on.

This appears to be a league-wide memo to Jerry and Dan.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

From what I have read, each team has a representative and the all actions or decisions are voted on.

This appears to be a league-wide memo to Jerry and Dan.

I don't think this is accurate. I don't think that all of them are on the committee. Its just one of 8 different committees.

They call the owners, the owners and not a committee. At least when the owners would vote on a CBA for example. Where are you reading its all of them?

 

[Hoofbite]

But didn't Dallas convert Austin's $7.8m of his $8.5m base salary in 2011 to a signing bonus that was spread out over the 5 years remaining. So his base salary went from $17m to $685k from 2010 to 2011, but his 2012 cap hit is only $2.5M.

I think you got it right.

Cap hits (abouts):

2010: 17M (Didn't count)
2011: 2.5M
2012: 2.5M

Austin was given a contract without a signing bonus and the contract was signed like 6 months after the cap limit fell off.

When is the last time that Jerry gave a contract without a bonus like that to a high contract.

Roy, Barber, Ware, Romo, Witten, Ratliff, Newman

They got bonuses, IIRC.

When you throw in the fact that the average salary cap hit for Top 10 WRs for the combined years of 2011 and 2012 (excluding Megatron's crazy number so #2 - #11) is like 18-19M dollars, it's kind of obvious that the team deliberately designed that contract to look like that.

The average team pays out 18-19M for the services of a Top 10 WR for 2011 and 2012.

Dallas payed a little less than 5M.

I kind of also think that this is where the Bears get off the hook. Peppers has a cap hit thats like top 10-20 in the league. They didn't gain cap space by paying him so much more up front. They just paid him more of front which by itself is ridiculous because who knows where he lands if they don't offer him the moon.

But, I can kind of see the bass ackwards thought process. Dallas benefitted from an extremely low cap number paid to a high price FA and the Bears didn't.

When considering the cap is the limiting factor in talent acquisition, it kind of makes sense. Kind of.

 

[Hoofbite]

I don't think this is accurate. I don't think that all of them are on the committee. Its just one of 8 different committees.

They call the owners, the owners and not a committee. At least when the owners would vote on a CBA for example. Where are you reading its all of them?

I found copy of the 2006 Constitution and Bylaws. I'd post the damn section but for some reason the PDF is locked and I can't copy it.

In short, it says the team appoints a guy to be it's member and can have an alternative if they chose. Guys serves until his membership card is revoked basically.

Here's the link I found for the Constitution and Bylaws.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content//public/static/html/careers/pdf/co_.pdf