NFLN: Lions get permission to speak with Garrett

Bach

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Hostile;2539876 said:
So the right thing to do is ignore the fact that Landry was not immediately a "proven winner" and go right to the point where he was and start there? Yeah that makes sense.

When he made the playoffs 18 of 20 years but you want to go back to the very beginning of the franchise to make a point, yeah it's a reach.

Hey guys, we need to stick with Wade and staff since the expansion Cowboys stuck with Landry in the 60's.

Good plan.
 

newlander

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This team NEEDS SGt. Hulka and his big toe: too bad he's dead.....................
 

DallasEast

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cowboyed;2539700 said:
Ok, but you are either ignorant of the fact or conveniently left out that Jones had a very short time line from Miami to hire Garrett and that Wade Phillips was on board with this. In fact Wade was on board with Garrett being assistant head coach.

If this were an issue Wade would never have agreed to become head coach then. Wade agreed, good grief! We already have learned that Wade is a hands off head coach even on the defensive side. Sad to state that Wade had to be strongly urged by Jerry to get more involved in his very own coaching specialty when our defense was heading south game after game.

Ironically Jerry's involvement motivated Wade to take a more active role on defense and overall it worked!
Taking things a little personally this morning, aren't we? "Ignorant?" Nothing you have stated proved what I said was wrong.

According to you, "Wade Phillips was on board with this". If true (and I'm not stating that you are wrong), Jerry Jones had already made his choice for head coach (Phillips) before the head coach interview/search process had ended and before Jones had hired Garrett as the team's offensive coordinator. Therefore, the whole head coaching selection process would have been, by definition, an elaborate fiction for everyone else.

Jerry Jones should have avoided the pretense, cut the so-called "exhaustively thorough" new head coach search short, hired Phillips first, allowed Phillips (i.e. the newly established head coach) to further continue the ruse that he himself was making a head coaching-like decision such as establishing his own staff and hired Jason Garrett within that tiny window of opportunity since Phillips WOULD HAVE PICKED him as his offensive coordinator anyway, correct?

Please.

You want to talk about facts? Let's talk facts.

Fact: Jason Garrett was an assistant coach candidate for offensive coordinator. He wasn't THE only assistant coach candidate for the job.

Fact: Jerry Jones, the general manager, coveted Garrett's services initially.

Fact: Wade Phillips, a prospective BUT not yet HIRED head coach at that time, was asked BY Jones whether Phillips AGREED with HIS decision on securing Garrett.

Fact: Phillips, who was not yet named the head coach, agreed with what his future employer was doing before he had the top job himself.

NONE of these facts dismisses my opinion. Jerry Jones hired Jason Garrett. Jason Garrett wasn't the only coaching candidate for the job. However, he was the coach whom Jones wanted most. In fact, Jones wanted Garrett to eventually become the successor of his next head coach whom he hadn't even hired yet. I ask you, in your opinion from what you have observed yourself, "Is that the norm for hiring assistant coaches in the NFL OR is it the norm for how Jerry Jones runs this franchise"?

The general manager hired an assistant coach before hiring his head coach when there were still available coaches other than necessarily Jason Garrett for his soon-to-be head coach to choose from. In my opinion, head coaches are more effective when they have hand-picked their own staffs. Wade Phillips wasn't given that opportunity to do it himself in regards to his offensive coordinator.

While I have already freely admitted that Phillips can make poor assistant coach selections (e.g. Stewart), it doesn't preclude the chance that he, as the head coach, could have selected a (good) offensive coordinator that he was more familiar instead of having to agree or disagree with whom the general manager had previously decided upon. It is not ignorant to acknowledge the more common assistant coach/hiring practice within the NFL as the basis of my opinion.
 

Silverstar

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DallasEast;2540078 said:
Taking things a little personally this morning, aren't we? "Ignorant?" Nothing you have stated proved what I said was wrong.

According to you, "Wade Phillips was on board with this". If true (and I'm not stating that you are wrong), Jerry Jones had already made his choice for head coach (Phillips) before the head coach interview/search process had ended and before Jones had hired Garrett as the team's offensive coordinator. Therefore, the whole head coaching selection process would have been, by definition, an elaborate fiction for everyone else.

Jerry Jones should have avoided the pretense, cut the so-called "exhaustively thorough" new head coach search short, hired Phillips first, allowed Phillips (i.e. the newly established head coach) to further continue the ruse that he himself was making a head coaching-like decision such as establishing his own staff and hired Jason Garrett within that tiny window of opportunity since Phillips WOULD HAVE PICKED him as his offensive coordinator anyway, correct?

Please.

You want to talk about facts? Let's talk facts.

Fact: Jason Garrett was an assistant coach candidate for offensive coordinator. He wasn't THE only assistant coach candidate for the job.

Fact: Jerry Jones, the general manager, coveted Garrett's services initially.

Fact: Wade Phillips, a prospective BUT not yet HIRED head coach at that time, was asked BY Jones whether Phillips AGREED with HIS decision on securing Garrett.

Fact: Phillips, who was not yet named the head coach, agreed with what his future employer was doing before he had the top job himself.

NONE of these facts dismisses my opinion. Jerry Jones hired Jason Garrett. Jason Garrett wasn't the only coaching candidate for the job. However, he was the coach whom Jones wanted most. In fact, Jones wanted Garrett to eventually become the successor of his next head coach whom he hadn't even hired yet. I ask you, in your opinion from what you have observed yourself, "Is that the norm for hiring assistant coaches in the NFL OR is it the norm for how Jerry Jones runs this franchise"?

The general manager hired an assistant coach before hiring his head coach when there were still available coaches other than necessarily Jason Garrett for his soon-to-be head coach to choose from. In my opinion, head coaches are more effective when they have hand-picked their own staffs. Wade Phillips wasn't given that opportunity to do it himself in regards to his offensive coordinator.

While I have already freely admitted that Phillips can make poor assistant coach selections (e.g. Stewart), it doesn't preclude the chance that he, as the head coach, could have selected a (good) offensive coordinator that he was more familiar instead of having to agree or disagree with whom the general manager had previously decided upon. It is not ignorant to acknowledge the more common assistant coach/hiring practice within the NFL as the basis of my opinion.

I think Jones had a small window to hire Garrett away from Miami and he had to pull the trigger quickly. Honestly, I think it was just as simple as that. If Phillips had been hired first, I think Garrett would have interviewed with Phillips and just come on board anyway IMO. In hindsight, maybe promoting Sparano to HC would have been better....who knows. Phillips simply had more experience and knew how to run a successful 3-4 defense...so Jerry chose Phillips. Now, Wade is 22-10 and our defense has had 105 sacks in 2 seasons. Some say, we should fire him and basically the entire coaching staff along with him for not making the playoffs. If you fire Wade, you're basically blowing up the whole coaching staff after 2 years....again.

I don't agree with that.
 

Doomsay

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Silverstar;2540057 said:
Having the Jets, Bills and Fins in the division certainly helped the Pats playoff chances during that stretch. Not to mention, taping their signals and other teams' as well. It's all tainted as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, that's not the best coaching staff ownership combo in the NFL - I'd rather stick with the biggest embarrassment of a coaching staff for another season, for "continuity". Good point.

24-2 in December
 

alancdc

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He makes 3 million with Dallas. Why would he leave unless he is just tired of dealing with the drama?
 

Silverstar

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Doomsay;2540264 said:
Yeah, that's not the best coaching staff ownership combo in the NFL - I'd rather stick with the biggest embarrassment of a coaching staff for another season, for "continuity". Good point.

24-2 in December


Why don't you just sign up and get it over with.

Here you go... http://www.patsfans.com/


Enjoy.
 

Doomsay

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alancdc;2540325 said:
He makes 3 million with Dallas. Why would he leave unless he is just tired of dealing with the drama?

Given the trajectory of the offense (especially in big games), he might not get another chance at HC.
 

Silverstar

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Doomsay;2540444 said:
Weak response to losing an arguement. Towing the Jerry line is what is killing the team, not opposing it.

Huh?

Jerry isn't going anywhere and neither is Wade in 2009. You can either deal with it and root for your team or climb aboard another bandwagon to fit your football needs. In this case...December dominance since 2003.

So, once again....http://www.patsfans.com/


Enjoy.
 

DallasEast

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Silverstar;2540213 said:
I think Jones had a small window to hire Garrett away from Miami and he had to pull the trigger quickly. Honestly, I think it was just as simple as that.
It is as simple as that. Jerry Jones felt that he had to pull the trigger, not the head coach who usually makes that decision.
Silverstar;2540213 said:
If Phillips had been hired first, I think Garrett would have interviewed with Phillips and just come on board anyway IMO.
Possibly, but we will never truly know. Perhaps Phillips already had someone else in mind while interviewing for Parcells vacancy before Jones asked him about Jason Garrett. He already had Brian Stewart in mind as his #1 defensive coordinator candidate. What if he had someone else in mind as his #1 offensive coordinator candidate? Maybe the idea of not agreeing with Jones on Garrett helped persuade Phillips to go along with Jones' recommendation. Who knows?
Silverstar;2540213 said:
In hindsight, maybe promoting Sparano to HC would have been better....who knows. Phillips simply had more experience and knew how to run a successful 3-4 defense...so Jerry chose Phillips. Now, Wade is 22-10 and our defense has had 105 sacks in 2 seasons. Some say, we should fire him and basically the entire coaching staff along with him for not making the playoffs. If you fire Wade, you're basically blowing up the whole coaching staff after 2 years....again.

I don't agree with that.
Good point. Successful team have relatively good continuity within its coaching ranks. Still, Phillips doesn't instill within me the solid and only leader image this team needs. If Bradie James' recent comments about not immediately embracing Phillips' proposed coaching philosophy changes is indicative of other players viewpoints, Phillips doesn't seem to instill that rock steady image within the players' eyes either, in my opinion.
 

Doomsay

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Silverstar;2540497 said:
Huh?

Jerry isn't going anywhere and neither is Wade in 2009. You can either deal with it and root for your team or climb aboard another bandwagon to fit your football needs. In this case...December dominance since 2003.

So, once again....http://www.patsfans.com/


Enjoy.

Oh I'm dealing with it just fine thanks, you know.. with rational discourse about the problems that the team has, rather than obedience to a flawed management team. Somebody else not me, brought up the Patriots as an example of a team that had good coaching / management but wasn't successful in their opinion because they didn't make the playoffs this year despite losing the league's MVP in game one.

You jumped on that subject and also foolishly suggested that New England's coaching staff wasn't that impressive. Clearly the numbers don't back either of you up, you can try to deflect attention away from your gaff by putting up your Pats link, but it doesn't make your statement any less ignorant.
 

khiladi

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dbair1967;2537779 said:
like someone else stated, you guys want to ignore the fact that Garrett did indeed re-do the entire passing offense. He called all those plays.

You mean the same offense that everybody figured out and no longer performed the next season, the very season they failed to make the play-offs... The 4-6 was pretty effective too as the base defense teams ran in the 80s...
 

Silverstar

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Doomsay;2540618 said:
Oh I'm dealing with it just fine thanks, you know.. with rational discourse about the problems that the team has, rather than obedience to a flawed management team. Somebody else not me, brought up the Patriots as an example of a team that had good coaching / management but wasn't successful in their opinion because they didn't make the playoffs this year despite losing the league's MVP in game one.

You jumped on that subject and also foolishly suggested that New England's coaching staff wasn't that impressive. Clearly the numbers don't back either of you up, you can try to deflect attention away from your gaff by putting up your Pats link, but it doesn't make your statement any less ignorant.

New England's coaching staff has certainly been impressive in their accomplishments, winning 3 SB's in 4 years. It's just the way they went about it, that a lot of fans especially in the AFC, now feel was cheating by taping their teams' signals. I'm just one of many, who also feels that way and that's why I used the word "tainted" regarding their SB success. Apparently, the league and commisioner felt the same way and dealt with it accordingly...I suppose.

Still, you seem to think the Pats are the ideal organization at this time and I was merely pointing you in that direction with my link. The ignorance is coming from you, because you obviously can't accept the way things will be for Dallas in 2009 or the whole Spygate matter regarding the Pats. Do you dismiss the fact, they taped other teams' signals?
 

khiladi

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dbair1967;2538285 said:
two pretty football savvy people offered him the HC job last yr, ahead of two guys who are both coach of the yr candidates...are you saying those people didnt know what they were doing?

You think those two savvy football people would hire Garrett after this year, trading their now current coaches for Garrett???
 

2much2soon

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I don't have a link but was just out driving around and I heard on ESPN radio that Garrett had been given permission to interview with Detroit?
Anybody else hear this?
 

Doomsday101

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2much2soon;2541124 said:
I don't have a link but was just out driving around and I heard on ESPN radio that Garrett had been given permission to interview with Detroit?
Anybody else hear this?

Yes he will get an interview with the Lions but the Lions list appears pretty long in candidates they are looking at.
 

Bob Sacamano

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Doomsday101;2539811 said:
I don't think we have a fool for a GM, he has gone out and brought in good talent and our drafts have been much better including this past draft that has seen Felix Jones, Bennett and Choice. No the only fools I see are people running around like chicken with their heads cut off thinking they know how to run a team.

I don't think he's a fool either

just an egotistical maniac who makes it hard for coaches to coach because he wants his hand-prints on everything, so that everyone knows that any Cowboy's success came from him
 
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