NFLN: Lions get permission to speak with Garrett

[Bach]

Uh, Landry was not a proven winner for many years. In 1965 the fans and media were calling for his head. His record was a sterling 25-53-4. Cowboys players wanted him fired. His systems were not working.

In your mind, that is a "proven winner?"

Tex Schramm gave him a 10 years extension. It took him 6 more years to win a Super Bowl and shed the label "Next Year's Champs."

You honestly want to tell me fans today would give him the "benefit of the doubt?" No way in hell.

If you want to go back to the first 5 of 6 years the franchise existed to try and make some point, then have at it.

 

[iceberg]

You are one of the few posters on here Iceberg that is defending wanting to keep Garrett.

I am just curious as to why? What exactly is going to change by keeping Garrett?

That is what I just dont get. If we keep the same players and the same coaches, then why should we expect a totally different result?

Albert Einstein called this the definition of insanity.

So why keep Garrett, why are you so adament about keeping him???

last year garrett worked pretty well. this year we hit a rough spot, yes. is it not just as insane to change leadership at every sign of adversity and never give continuity a chance? we knew when we hired garrett it was a long term plan. i was thankful to have a long term plan in place.

i don't want to see us knee jerk around and every time we don't get our way fans stomp their foot and get a new coach.

now, for garrett to be HC wade has to be fired, right?

there. there's your change. so it couldn't be "the same" under that scenario so that quote can't apply.

 

[Hostile]

You have no point if you're trying to compare having continuity with Wade with that of Landry.

I also know the team was founded in 1960 so it's no surprise they would struggle in the early 60's and just changing out coaches wasn't the issue.

And when you then go on to miss the playoffs only twice in 20 years then obviously you aren't going to just abandon things on either of those two occasions after just one or two bumps on the road.

One or two "bumps in the road." If you don't think Landry was under fire until he actually proved he could win then you're delusional.

It's not a comparison of Wade to Tom. It's a comparison of philosophies of "continuity," Jerry's new buzz word. When all the Cowboys world (fans, media, and players) were hanging Tom Landry in effigy (this is a metaphor) the GM preached "stay the course." Gee, that sounds familiar. Like a plea for stabilization. "Continuity" maybe?

Is it exactly the same circumstances? No, I never said it was. But I certainly didn't make it all that difficult to grasp.

Starting in the mid 80's til Jimmy got hired there did need to changes though that weren't made.

Interesting. Especially considering the 20 year winning streak ended in 1985 which would be the exact middle of the 80's. We won the NFC East that year. But changes needed to be made according to you. Interesting.

So you would change a legendary coach who had just won a division, and completed a 20 year run of winning seasons. Interesting.

I guess the fact that tightwad Bum Bright was the owner and wouldn't let Tom or Tex do anything to improve the team has no bearing at all on this?

Yep, interesting.

But this team hasn't won a playoff game in 13 years. This team has a HC who has been a HC with 5 teams now and has never won a playoff game.

Yeah, we all know all of this stuff, not just you.

So any comparisons, regardless of how exact or inexact, of this current team with Wade and the Landry years is totally irrelevant and a reach.

Ah, but I didn't compare the coaches. I compared the philosophies of "continuity." Therein lies the difference.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think we are in a tough spot.

1. Jerry wants it to look like hiring Wade was right so he lets him roll another year
2. Its bad to change coaches often

none of the above should weigh in the decision to keep him but they will....​

You are giving your opinion on why Jerry is staying with Wade. I have no problem with that this board is where people go to give opinions but lets don't pretend that you know the reason Jerry is staying with Wade. Jerry stated why he will stay with Wade, people may not like that or agree with it but only 1 man knows for sure and that is Jerry.

 

[newlander]

As Bill Murray once said in Stripes:

"And then..................DEPRESSION set in."...............................

 

[Hostile]

If you want to go back to the first 5 of 6 years the franchise existed to try and make some point, then have at it.

So the right thing to do is ignore the fact that Landry was not immediately a "proven winner" and go right to the point where he was and start there? Yeah that makes sense.

 

[Doomsay]

I don't think we have a fool for a GM, he has gone out and brought in good talent and our drafts have been much better including this past draft that has seen Felix Jones, Bennett and Choice. No the only fools I see are people running around like chicken with their heads cut off thinking they know how to run a team.

In case you haven't noticed, talented players without an empowered and talented coaching staff don't win championships. A GM that wants to make splashy acquisitions hire patsy coaches and then undermine them privately and publicly is a fool. He did it after Jimmy and we stank until Bill came in, and now he's doing it again. All this continuity bull is the only way Jerry can spin the retention of a laughable coach that garners no respect in the locker room or around the league. Doesn't mean that he isn't a good DC under the right circumstance, but he is a terrible head coach.

 

[Doomsday101]

In case you haven't noticed, talented players without an empowered and talented coaching staff don't win championships. A GM that wants to make splashy acquisitions hire patsy coaches and then undermine them privately and publicly is a fool. He did it after Jimmy and we stank until Bill came in, and now he's doing it again. All this continuity bull is the only way Jerry can spin the retention of a laughable coach that garners no respect in the locker room or around the league. Doesn't mean that he isn't a good DC under the right circumstance, but he is a terrible head coach.

I believe in giving coaches more than 2 years to do the job if you disagree that is fine. As for BP I like him as well but I recall many around here wanting him fired as well. I have been a fan of football a long time and one thing I know for sure fans are quick to holler for a coach’s head and any owner worth his salt is an idiot if it listens to fans to make major decisions as in hiring or firing of a HC.

 

[arync]

please take him and get a touch OC in here that will tell Romo, TO, and Roy the truth about themselves

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Uh, Landry was not a proven winner for many years. In 1965 the fans and media were calling for his head. His record was a sterling 25-53-4. Cowboys players wanted him fired. His systems were not working.

In your mind, that is a "proven winner?"

Tex Schramm gave him a 10 years extension. It took him 6 more years to win a Super Bowl and shed the label "Next Year's Champs."

You honestly want to tell me fans today would give him the "benefit of the doubt?" No way in hell.

I was going to say that in this day and age, it wouldn't matter if this Cowboys team was coming off of 3 straight 5-11 seasons, if Wade didn't win a playoff game within his first two seasons there is no way the fans, the media, anyone would want him to stay.

In today's game, even if the Cowboys were a brand new team, there is no way a coach would be given the benefit of the doubt of having 5-6 seasons to turn the team into a respectable group. No way at all.

In the what have you done for me lately, win right now, culture of today's fans there is no way a Coach is going to get anything but roasted unless he goes to the playoffs and wins playoff games at least 3 times every 4 seasons. That's the only way they're not getting roasted within 1 or 2 seasons.

 

[newlander]

I respect your opinion Dooms: and I see your point. However, IMO Wade has lost all credibility: the players think he is a joke. How on earth does he get that back so they'll play for him?

 

[Hostile]

In case you haven't noticed, talented players without an empowered and talented coaching staff don't win championships. A GM that wants to make splashy acquisitions hire patsy coaches and then undermine them privately and publicly is a fool. He did it after Jimmy and we stank until Bill came in, and now he's doing it again. All this continuity bull is the only way Jerry can spin the retention of a laughable coach that garners no respect in the locker room or around the league. Doesn't mean that he isn't a good DC under the right circumstance, but he is a terrible head coach.

In case you haven't noticed, the Patriots have both of those things and aren't winning one for the 4th straight year.

It isn't all that easy.

 

[iceberg]

As Bill Murray once said in Stripes:

"And then..................DEPRESSION set in."...............................

you can't leave - all the plants will die!!!

 

[Oh_Canada]

The problem here is the head coach not the OC. The players aren't playing hard and they are barely even practicing together, because the head coach thinks giving time off is more important.

 

[Hostile]

you can't leave - all the plants will die!!!

That's the fact Jack!

 

[iceberg]

That's the fact Jack!

where's your drill seargent?

 

[Doomsay]

In case you haven't noticed, the Patriots have both of those things and aren't winning one for the 4th straight year.

It isn't all that easy.

You really want to use the Patriots as a counter-example to the weak coaching staff and dysfunctional ownership model that we enjoy? They are 24-2 in December since 2003, think about it. I'd take their 11-5 record with a last-started-in-high school-quarterback over anything Jerry and his puppet coach could ever do. That coaching staff elevates those players into over-achievers, not the soft, whining, finger pointing underachievers that we cultivate.

 

[Blue&Silver]

They won't take him. I'm afraid we are stuck with him and might as well start living with it.

 

[Bach]

One or two "bumps in the road." If you don't think Landry was under fire until he actually proved he could win then you're delusional.

It's not a comparison of Wade to Tom. It's a comparison of philosophies of "continuity," Jerry's new buzz word. When all the Cowboys world (fans, media, and players) were hanging Tom Landry in effigy (this is a metaphor) the GM preached "stay the course." Gee, that sounds familiar. Like a plea for stabilization. "Continuity" maybe?

Like I said, if you have to go back to the 1960's to a time when we were an expansion franchise, then it's a reach.

As for continuity, why would we want continuity with a HC who has been a proven loser like Wade? Oh I see, because of Landry in the '60's. Gotcha.

Interesting. Especially considering the 20 year winning streak ended in 1985 which would be the exact middle of the 80's. We won the NFC East that year. But changes needed to be made according to you. Interesting.

So you would change a legendary coach who had just won a division, and completed a 20 year run of winning seasons. Interesting.

Some on the coaching staff, yes. Things had gotten stagnant by the mid to late 80's. If you recall they hadn't won a playoff game since the divisional round of '82.

Ah, but I didn't compare the coaches. I compared the philosophies of "continuity." Therein lies the difference.

Continuity when you bring up Landry and his staff is rather ridiculous to comparison to continuity in regards to someone like Wade and his staff.

 

[Silverstar]

You really want to use the Patriots as a counter-example to the weak coaching staff and dysfunctional ownership model that we enjoy? They are 24-2 in December since 2003, think about it. I'd take their 11-5 record with a last-started-in-high school-quarterback over anything Jerry and his puppet coach could ever do. That coaching staff elevates those players into over-achievers, not the soft, whining, finger pointing underachievers that we cultivate.

Having the Jets, Bills and Fins in the division certainly helped the Pats playoff chances during that stretch. Not to mention, taping their signals and other teams' as well. It's all tainted as far as I'm concerned.