RELEASED Nolan Carroll Released

[plasticman]

The lack of return on Carrrol is chump change compared to the drafting of three first team All Pros on the offensive line, a linebacker All Pro in Lee, a pro bowler quarterback in the 4th round, a free agent All World kicker and several other feee agents that have greatly contributed.

Nobody bats a thousand in acquring players, recently the Cowboys have done a pretty good job.

 

[lukin2006]

good riddance...

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

The only issue I have is that he counts 2 million against the cap next year.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Nobody bats a thousand in acquring players, recently the Cowboys have done a pretty good job.

They are a Switzer fumble and TWill tipped pass from being 4-1. Must be doing something right.

 

[big dog cowboy]

The only issue I have is that he counts 2 million against the cap next year.

That is a drop in the bucket. Salary cap for next year is $178M.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

That is a drop in the bucket. Salary cap for next year is $178M.

Doesn’t matter that makes it a horrible signing.

 

[Sydla]

It makes perfect sense. They guys you need to be looking at with this approach are the young players they are developing and not the stop-gap guys they've brought in, since that's where they're making the significant investment.

I've never suggested they didn't whiff on Carroll, and have consistently only said that it didn't matter that much that he ended up being such a short bridge since we actually do have young players behind him who appear to be stepping up. The fact that Lewis can actually play does, in fact, cover up for that FA whiff. That's exactly the point.

Your mistake in evaluating the approach is to assume a linear connection between price and talent. The whole reason we take the approach we do is because we think you have to overpay for good players in FA, you have to pay through the nose for premium players, the best players never become available at all, but that you can find values on average guys and role players once the market dies down. That approach makes sense from a cap perspective. But it means you have to find and develop your impact players in the draft. When those guys are out injured (Hitchens, Lee), or can't play (Smith, Heath), or take a step back (Brown, Jones, Wilson), *that's* what bites you. Not the market-rate contract you gave to the wrong guy to be a stop-gap CB for you while you backfilled with your 2nd and 3rd round picks.

It makes little sense. You can't say that they've whiffed on calculated bets and then say the approach isn't then wrong. When the approach is to sign FA rejects and they don't work out and from a larger picture, you aren't making SB runs, then yeah, the approach probably needs some tweaking.

Name for me a team that has won a SB or been very successful by completely ignoring FA other than to sign bargain bin players like we do now? There aren't many out there. Denver, NE, Seattle, etc............ all have used FA better than we have. Talib, Ware, Hogan, Sheard, Lynch......... all mid to even higher lever FAs that were key members of SB teams. Those teams supplemented their drafts with smart, shrewd and this is the key factor, quality mid-level free agents. Not the freaking Nolan Carrolls of the world as their prime FA acquisitions.

While they don't go crazy with the high priced guys, they hit that mid-level market, something we refuse to do.

And every year its the same thing here. We lament the holes we have not realizing they probably could have been better filled with a smarter approach to FA. Some have tricked themselves into thinking that every hole we create will be filled with draft picks, when in reality, that's unlikely to work just as throwing your entire cap space into a FA class isn't going to work.

 

[Sydla]

That is a drop in the bucket. Salary cap for next year is $178M.

$2M could mean the difference again in being able (or willing) to sign a Micah Hyde type this offseason that can really help you and signing a known reject like a Nolan Carroll.

 

[Nightman]

That is a drop in the bucket. Salary cap for next year is $178M.

1.1%

 

[Melonfeud]

The lack of return on Carrrol is chump change compared to the drafting of three first team All Pros on the offensive line, a linebacker All Pro in Lee, a pro bowler quarterback in the 4th round, a free agent All World kicker and several other feee agents that have greatly contributed.

Nobody bats a thousand in acquring players, recently the Cowboys have done a pretty good job.

Good post Plasticman,,, but ,,, and it might be considered 'poor form' in certain circles to critique a quality contribution such as yours but that should read: UDFA ALL WORLD KICKER.

(us Jerry Jones fan club members like you&I should never pass on a single opportunity to laud our teams beloved owner/ G.M. PRAISES, as I'm pretty sure he'd personally scouted and groomed that guy,,,)

 

[Nightman]

$2M could mean the difference again in being able to sign a Micah Hyde type this offseason that can really help you and signing a known reject like a Nolan Carroll.

Stop the nonsense

We are 12m under the cap right now without touching Witten, Dez or TCrawford
We are 19m under the cap next year without roll-over or any restructures

We have 30m left untouched........... Micah Hyde(really?you didn't just notice those 4 INTs with your hindsight vision) has nothing to do with Carroll

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Not sure many posters here know but Carrol is a high character guy, much like Carr. His mother is an attorney ......in fact she was the first African American LT Governor for the state of Florida under Scott. Many are wondering why in the world we signed him. Not saying this was it entirely but this franchise does place a premium on high character.

 

[Sydla]

Not sure many posters here know but Carrol is a high character guy, much like Carr. His mother is an attorney ......in fact she was the first African American LT Governor for the state of Florida under Scott. Many are wondering why in the world we signed him. Not saying this was it entirely but this franchise does place a premium on high character.

Yeah and after signing with the Cowboys, he promptly went out and got a DUI.

They signed him because they thought he could play. I suspect Marinelli was the one pushing for him thinking he was the ideal fit for his zone defense. Turned out, his last few years in Philly were not an anomaly. He just wasn't a very good CB. Throw a concussion on top of that and the Cowboys figured what's the point of keeping a crappy CB with scrambled eggs for brains around anymore.

At least they noticed their screw up this early and didn't trick themselves again into thinking he can come back and play quality CB for us down the road. That's a win, for sure.

 

[Sydla]

Stop the nonsense

We are 12m under the cap right now without touching Witten, Dez or TCrawford
We are 19m under the cap next year without roll-over or any restructures

We have 30m left untouched........... Micah Hyde(really?you didn't just notice those 4 INTs with your hindsight vision) has nothing to do with Carroll

Stop the nonsense yourself. When you are a penny pinching organization like we are in FA, every million counts. $2MM in dead money next year for a guy you should have known sucked before you even signed him is a mistake. Massive mistake? Of course not. But yet another example of FA foibles by this organization.

And I was pushing Hyde when FA started. I never bought the Heath hype.

 

[Stash]

Stop the nonsense yourself. When you are a penny pinching organization like we are in FA, every million counts. $2MM in dead money next year for a guy you should have known sucked before you even signed him is a mistake. Massive mistake? Of course not. But yet another example of FA foibles by this organization.

And I was pushing Hyde when FA started. I never bought the Heath hype.

The same $2 million The Excusers want to pass off as nothing is the difference between the deal Terrell McClain got in Washington vs what Credic Thornton got here. Washington still has their player, we have a gaping hole and dead cap space.

The same $2 million is the difference between keeping Carr or Claiborne or signing a stiff like Nolan Carroll that gets cut after one sorry *** month on the job. Oh, and yet another hole on the roster and dead cap space.

But yeah, let them continue to try to preach that it's "nonsense". I know where the real "nonsense" is coming from.

 

[Idgit]

It makes little sense. You can't say that they've whiffed on calculated bets and then say the approach isn't then wrong. When the approach is to sign FA rejects and they don't work out and from a larger picture, you aren't making SB runs, then yeah, the approach probably needs some tweaking.

Name for me a team that has won a SB or been very successful by completely ignoring FA other than to sign bargain bin players like we do now? There aren't many out there. Denver, NE, Seattle, etc............ all have used FA better than we have. Talib, Ware, Hogan, Sheard, Lynch......... all mid to even higher lever FAs that were key members of SB teams. Those teams supplemented their drafts with smart, shrewd and this is the key factor, quality mid-level free agents. Not the freaking Nolan Carrolls of the world as their prime FA acquisitions.

While they don't go crazy with the high priced guys, they hit that mid-level market, something we refuse to do.

And every year its the same thing here. We lament the holes we have not realizing they probably could have been better filled with a smarter approach to FA. Some have tricked themselves into thinking that every hole we create will be filled with draft picks, when in reality, that's unlikely to work just as throwing your entire cap space into a FA class isn't going to work.

You can definitely have the right approach and not get the results if the players don't develop. Just like you can spend big in FA and whiff. There are lots of possible breaking points.

GB is probably the best example of a team that's used the draft and develop method. For a while there, IIRC, Julius Peppers was the only free agent of note on their roster. But other teams do it, too. You mention New England, but they do a lot of what they do via trade. It's guys like Rodney Harrison and Rob Ninkovich they bring in via FA.

Dallas, too, has been resigning a lot of draft pick hits to long contracts. And they were at the tail-end of the big Romo deal. So you gotta give someplace. And we've dabbled with some bigger deals. Thornton's deal wasn't a bottom feeder deal. Greg Hardy wasn't that long ago. Alfred Morris. Henry Melton had a big deal a few years back. Those are mid-level guys, for the most part.

 

[Sydla]

You can definitely have the right approach and not get the results if the players don't develop. Just like you can spend big in FA and whiff. There are lots of possible breaking points.

GB is probably the best example of a team that's used the draft and develop method. For a while there, IIRC, Julius Peppers was the only free agent of note on their roster. But other teams do it, too. You mention New England, but they do a lot of what they do via trade. It's guys like Rodney Harrison and Rob Ninkovich they bring in via FA.

Dallas, too, has been resigning a lot of draft pick hits to long contracts. And they were at the tail-end of the big Romo deal. So you gotta give someplace. And we've dabbled with some bigger deals. Thornton's deal wasn't a bottom feeder deal. Greg Hardy wasn't that long ago. Alfred Morris. Henry Melton had a big deal a few years back. Those are mid-level guys, for the most part.

That's a real convenient way to look at it to allow one to not have to admit their franchise isn't exactly succeeding.

Hey, it hasn't really worked but that doesn't mean it's the wrong approach!

 

[Idgit]

That's a real convenient way to look at it to allow one to not have to admit their franchise isn't exactly succeeding.

Hey, it hasn't really worked but that doesn't mean it's the wrong approach!

That's why I said there are many possible breaking points. You actually can have the right approach and still miss on a couple of guys and not get where you're going. That leaves you with a good, competitive team but no championship. Which is pretty much what we're seeing in Dallas right now.

It's not convenient. It's harder to solve when the problems are more complex. But it's still a better way to look at the problem than thinking you can boil everything down to something as silly as whiffing on Nolan Carroll.

 

[Sydla]

That's why I said there are many possible breaking points. You actually can have the right approach and still miss on a couple of guys and not get where you're going. That leaves you with a good, competitive team but no championship. Which is pretty much what we're seeing in Dallas right now.

It's not convenient. It's harder to solve when the problems are more complex. But it's still a better way to look at the problem than thinking you can boil everything down to something as silly as whiffing on Nolan Carroll.

Carroll is just a symptom of a bigger problem that I have stated multiple times.

Their FA "plan" blows. They don't utilize FA properly, and haven't for years. If it's not overspending in FA like they did years ago, it's now shopping in the bargain bin thinking they will strike gold with a cheap, after thought turning into something he's probably not.

I hope someday soon they realize there is this massive big middle ground where great teams usually shop and find pretty good success.

 

[Alexander]