Not a single "elite" starter in Dallas? PFF Depth Chart

[MichaelWinicki]

No WR would be downgraded over their blocking it's all about their receiving numbers and the plays they make catching the football. Even some of the greatest TE's haven't been the best of blockers but that didn't show up on their stat sheet.

When comparing to other productive wide receivers who are better blockers... then yeah the guy that blocks worst is going to take a back seat to guys who are equally great at catching the ball and assist their offense by being good blockers also.

 

[KJJ]

When comparing to other productive wide receivers who are better blockers... then yeah the guy that blocks worst is going to take a back seat to guys who are equally great at catching the ball and assist their offense by being good blockers also.

If you ask those who rank the elite players at each position I doubt any took blocking into consideration when raking the WR's. I doubt anyone would downgrade Lynn Swann or John Stallworh as receivers based on their skills as a blocker. TE's are the only receivers who are going to be judged on their blocking and receiving by those who rank players because blocking is an important part of being a TE. Even as important as blocking is for a TE if Tony Gonzalez was an average blocker he would still be considered the greatest TE in history due to his all-time receiving numbers.

You never hear anyone talk about Jerry Rice as a blocker it's his receiving numbers everyone marvels at and it's those numbers that him ranked by many as the greatest player in NFL history. WR's are judged off their ability to separate, catch the ball and their receiving numbers. I've yet to hear of a WR in the draft being downgraded or passed over due to their lack of blocking skills. If they're a good blocker it's a bonus but it's not something that's taken into consideration when ranking the elite WR's.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If you ask those who rank the elite players at each position I doubt any took blocking into consideration when raking the WR's. I doubt anyone would downgrade Lynn Swann or John Stallworh as receivers based on their skills as a blocker. TE's are the only receivers who are going to be judged on their blocking and receiving by those who rank players because blocking is an important part of being a TE. Even as important as blocking is for a TE if Tony Gonzalez was an average blocker he would still be considered the greatest TE in history due to his all-time receiving numbers.

You never hear anyone talk about Jerry Rice as a blocker it's his receiving numbers everyone looks at and it's those numbers that him ranked by many as the greatest player in NFL history. WR's are judged off their ability to separate, catch the ball and their receiving numbers. I've yet to hear of a WR in the draft being downgraded or passed over due to their lack of blocking skills. If they're a good blocker it's a bonus but it's not something that's taken into consideration when ranking the elite WR's.

now you're speaking for scouts. Wr blocking no longer matters. Nice. I should just appeal to authority I don't have in my arguments it's just so compelling.

 

[KJJ]

now you're speaking for scouts. Wr blocking no longer matters. Nice. I should just appeal to authority I don't have in my arguments it's just so compelling.

What's up with you? It seems like you're following me around from one topic to another just looking for an argument. I never said WR blocking doesn't matter but would you downgrade a Jerry Rice, Calvin Johnson or a Dez Bryant because of their blocking and choose a lesser "receiver" who's a better blocker? Give me an honest answer to that question.

 

[jnday]

I have been focusing on your posts since the draft and I still have yet to see anything objective or empirical in anything that you say.

instead it is a litany of half *** power rankings

Yet his post are the most liked on the forum. Fans relate to the knowledge that he shares. He gets as many "likes" every week as you have your entire posting career. In your mind, I am sure you think everybody is wrong except you. It would benefit you to humble yourself and Kearney from the greatness that is Risen Star, the most liked and appreciated poster on this board. I have read on this site that stats don't lie. The stats support these claims.

 

[xwalker]

I have been focusing on your posts since the draft and I still have yet to see anything objective or empirical in anything that you say.

instead it is a litany of half *** power rankings

Yet his post are the most liked on the forum. Fans relate to the knowledge that he shares. He gets as many "likes" every week as you have your entire posting career. In your mind, I am sure you think everybody is wrong except you. It would benefit you to humble yourself and Kearney from the greatness that is Risen Star, the most liked and appreciated poster on this board. I have read on this site that stats don't lie. The stats support these claims.

I've seen several people post that they would like to have a dis-like button. All of those posts that I've seen were referring to the same person.

 

[Hoofbite]

I've seen several people post that they would like to have a dis-like button. All of those posts that I've seen were referring to the same person.

A dislike button would be just as meaningless as the like button currently is.

Just an observation but it seems that the "who" is often as equally influential as the "what" in terms of liked posts.

If you want an example look no further than this very thread. Risen Star (some would call a "realist") posts that Tyron Smith is elite. A "realist" who posts something positive and he actually gets flack for it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What's up with you? It seems like you're following me around from one topic to another just looking for an argument. I never said WR blocking doesn't matter but would you downgrade a Jerry Rice, Calvin Johnson or a Dez Bryant because of their blocking and choose a lesser "receiver" who's a better blocker? Give me an honest answer to that question.

Following you around? Get over yourself. I respond to what I consider asinine takes. Its not you but what you are saying that I am responding to. I get tired of people making up stories to fill in the gaps of their ignorance and then inserting that for the truth. Anyone who does that will hear from me. You are one of far too many that do as such as a matter of course.

You have no way of knowing the things you claim.

You poisoned your hypothetical with the 'lesser' assertion. It's self fulfilling, circular argument.

WR are coached and evaluated on blocking as well as route running and every other facet of their game. It is what it is.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yet his post are the most liked on the forum. Fans relate to the knowledge that he shares. He gets as many "likes" every week as you have your entire posting career. In your mind, I am sure you think everybody is wrong except you. It would benefit you to humble yourself and Kearney from the greatness that is Risen Star, the most liked and appreciated poster on this board. I have read on this site that stats don't lie. The stats support these claims.

McDonalds is up to how many sold now? Justin Bieber has sold how many records? Risen Star is the McDonalds of the zone. Bravo on your popularity contest. Appeal to the bandwagon is what it is.

Youre cute with your high school clique logic though.

How about you actually address my point: his complete lack of examples or analysis in his valuation of players. It is what it is too.

 

[jnday]

McDonalds is up to how many sold now? Justin Bieber has sold how many records? Risen Star is the McDonalds of the zone. Bravo on your popularity contest. Appeal to the bandwagon is what it is.

Youre cute with your high school clique logic though.

How about you actually address my point: his complete lack of examples or analysis in his valuation of players. It is what it is too.

You don't have a point unless you are trying to fool everybody into thinking you are some Einstein , which you clearly are not. It hurts , but his knowledge of the game doesn't come from a you tube video like yours.

 

[Bullflop]

if their ratings are objectivethen so are opinion polls and psychological surveys. they are an objective measure of one mans opinion.

True -- I understand that. Actually, I was basically referring to an "objective" opinion as opposed to a "biased" one that you're likely to see on most team websites. Of course, whether the individual is objective or biased depends entirely upon his ability to separate whatever his level of emotional involvement may be from the cold hard facts. Nevertheless, it seems to me that those individuals who are neither fans nor haters would naturally be the most likely give objective opinions. Granted, discerning which individuals are which is often difficult to know for sure.

 

[DallasEast]

Likes. Funny, I thought the Like button was clicked whenever someone... well, liked something. I did not know it was a sound quantifier for validity. Who would have thought another discussion device in cyberspace would pop up that would ever top opinions-made-fact? lol.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You don't have a point unless you are trying to fool everybody into thinking you are some Einstein , which you clearly are not. It hurts , but his knowledge of the game doesn't come from a you tube video like yours.

Ahh yes, another one pulling the 'you think youre so smart' inferiority defense. My intelligence is besides the point and you saying the above just speaks to your pettiness and lack of substance to your argument.

 

[KJJ]

Following you around? Get over yourself. I respond to what I consider asinine takes. Its not you but what you are saying that I am responding to. I get tired of people making up stories to fill in the gaps of their ignorance and then inserting that for the truth. Anyone who does that will hear from me. You are one of far too many that do as such as a matter of course.

You have no way of knowing the things you claim.

You poisoned your hypothetical with the 'lesser' assertion. It's self fulfilling, circular argument.

WR are coached and evaluated on blocking as well as route running and every other facet of their game. It is what it is.

What's asinine about saying a WR's blocking skills is the least important trait when evaluating a WR? Do you honestly believe a talented very productive WR is going to be downgraded and passed over in the draft for a lesser receiver who's a better blocker? What era are you living in? You never answered my question would you downgrade a Jerry Rice, Calvin Johnson or a Dez Bryant due to their blocking skills and choose a lesser "receiver" who's a better blocker? Would you have passed on Dez because of his blocking? Have you ever heard Kiper or any draft expert downgrade who they feel is the most gifted pass catching WR in the draft in favor of one who's less gifted as a receiver but is a much better blocker?

Go find an article or scouting report that lists blocking" high on the list" of requirements when grading an NFL WR prospect. WR's are graded on everything but the most important traits are body control, speed, agility and their ability to catch the football. The primary thing that a receiver must have is the ability to adjust to the football. Strength and sure soft hands are also essential to playing the position. NFL teams are looking for big, physical WR's who can go up and snatch the football. Below are three scouting reports on Sammy Watkins. Two of the reports don't even mention his blocking and the other report lists blocking near the bottom of his list of strengths.


http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/4/17/5624280/sammy-watkins-scouting-report

http://BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1/scoutingreport2014swatkins.php

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/sammy-watkins?id=2543457

 

[Nova]

PFF had Trent Williams and Joe Thomas as #1 & #2. I don't know if anyone can quibble with either of those guys being the top "dogs" at this point.

Then you had a big group of tackles that Tryon that was part of which was very good... Guys like Joe Staley, Jason Peters and Jordan Gross. I'm betting if you visited the forums of the teams those guys played on you're hearing the same gripes from their fans, "He (our offensive tackle) is elite, this PFF stuff is bogus".

Tyron just needs to improve his game a smidgen to be an elite OT.

Must've missed this!

All Pro voters certainly argued with Williams being a top dog. I think Joe Thomas is in the right place, but not Trent Williams.

I also post on a forum that has fans from all over the league, the overall consensus in the last poll was a slight edge to Tyron over Williams. Gross often isn't mentioned, even by the Carolina fans.

Williams allowed 8 sacks last year to Tyron's 1. Granted, Tyron was bailed out by Houdini Romo some times and Williams had a busted RGIII, but that's still a huge discrepancy. And then when you dive into total pressures, Tyron was the more efficient pass blocker overall, anyway.

Gotta remember, Tyron handed the best pass rusher in the league (and arguably best edge rusher of the last 5 years or so) his worst and least efficient pass rushing game of the season.

And in the run game, where Williams previously had an edge, Tyron has improved quite a bit. From what I've been able to find the avg ypc behind Williams is 4.8 yards. Tyron? 4.73. If those numbers hold true, that's not much of a discrepancy at all.

 

[KJJ]

now you're speaking for scouts. Wr blocking no longer matters.

Find a quote where I said WR blocking doesn't matter. In my previous post I listed 3 scouting reports on Sammy Watkins and only ONE mentioned his blocking. Of all the qualities scouts look for in a WR blocking is well down the list. You don't agree with that?

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Dez and Smith and Bailey I'd have as for sure elite at their positions.

I'd still put Witten there as well but I'll fully admit that I have a bit of a bias since he's my favorite Cowboys player today, and my 2nd all time favorite so I know I'm not completely objective when it comes to him.

I'd have had Romo has a high quality starter as well, instead of just a good starter. But those are the only things I'd really change about any of it.

 

[burmafrd]

I really wish they had never put in a like button. I will never use it certainly. And could care less whether I am liked or not for anything.