Not Overly Impressed With Chance Warmack

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Watched him against Tenn, LSU and ND and did not really come away impressed youtube scouting. I don't watch NCAA sports except to look at draft prospects and I never watch ESPN but for Spurs, Red Sox and Cowboys games so I am insulated from the hype. I get the feeling that some of the hoopla about him is from the "best OL in football" and "best running team in football" comments you get from Mussberger and the like. Anyway onto specifics.

This is not to say that he is not a good prospect. He excels at getting off the line and straight ahead into LBers. He really really excels at doing combo blocks with his center. That tandem blew people up.

He has decent lateral mobility and decent quickness for a man his size. You can use him on traps and to a lesser degree on pulling him to the outside for outside runs and screens. He was pretty good at all of this. He becomes less effective the farther he has to go and the more time a defender has to avoid him.

What left me completely underwhelmed was his drive blocking and pass protection. Manned up on a DT he didn't get very good movement and instead stood his guy up; he uses his hands well to keep guys out of his body, but outside of combo blocks and LBers masquerading as deer in the headlights I just didn't see all the pancakes that I was expecting from reading about him here. In pass protection he was slow to set and gave ground with regularity. That last part was disconcerting considering how effective they were running the ball.

He's a good prospect and stands to be a solid pro but I do not get the notion that he is a top 15 prospect especially not for the NFL game. Just don't see it.

On a side note the AL QB is awful. Inaccurate, not particularly athletic and it was funny watching him run around like a ninny and have the center either ignore or push him away. The center had zero respect for him and I can understand why.

 

[burmafrd]

Watched him against Tenn, LSU and ND and did not really come away impressed youtube scouting. I don't watch NCAA sports except to look at draft prospects and I never watch ESPN but for Spurs, Red Sox and Cowboys games so I am insulated from the hype. I get the feeling that some of the hoopla about him is from the "best OL in football" and "best running team in football" comments you get from Mussberger and the like. Anyway onto specifics.

This is not to say that he is not a good prospect. He excels at getting off the line and straight ahead into LBers. He really really excels at doing combo blocks with his center. That tandem blew people up.

He has decent lateral mobility and decent quickness for a man his size. You can use him on traps and to a lesser degree on pulling him to the outside for outside runs and screens. He was pretty good at all of this. He becomes less effective the farther he has to go and the more time a defender has to avoid him.

What left me completely underwhelmed was his drive blocking and pass protection. Manned up on a DT he didn't get very good movement and instead stood his guy up; he uses his hands well to keep guys out of his body, but outside of combo blocks and LBers masquerading as deer in the headlights I just didn't see all the pancakes that I was expecting from reading about him here. In pass protection he was slow to set and gave ground with regularity. That last part was disconcerting considering how effective they were running the ball.

He's a good prospect and stands to be a solid pro but I do not get the notion that he is a top 15 prospect especially not for the NFL game. Just don't see it.

On a side note the AL QB is awful. Inaccurate, not particularly athletic and it was funny watching him run around like a ninny and have the center either ignore or push him away. The center had zero respect for him and I can understand why.

completely disagree.

Not sure you were really watching Warmack.

And this from someone that suffered when ND got owned. But I still can acknowledge a real player.

So you are smarter then all the college scouts, pro scouts, coaches and everyone else?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's not particularly hard to figure out who the LG is. I told you what I saw. If you want to disagree then great but the blanket dismissal doesn't add much to the discussion.

 

[MonsterD]

He's a good prospect and stands to be a solid pro but I do not get the notion that he is a top 15 prospect especially not for the NFL game. Just don't see it.

100% agree, I think in 3-4 years Cooper will be known as the best guard from the draft.

 

[HoosierCowboy]

he's not Larry Allen yet but he's an upgrade for us and one of the top few OL in the draft--plus he's a winner

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He'll never approach prime Allen unless he gets a lot more quickness and more strength. He's a damn good prospect. I just don't see the power people talk about. He doesn't anchor particularly well and it stood out in the LSU game but it was also an issue against Tenn and to a lesser degree ND. He doesn't get very good push straight up drive blocking one on one on a DT.

What I noticed was him hooking with the center and plowing people downfield and combo on the DT and peeling to the second level. When he drove off the ball against ND right upfield into the LB he showed pretty good explosion and got to the LBers fast and overwhelmed them.

He is also well coached as he doesn't take false steps and keeps defenders off of and in front ofhim with his hands. I just didn't see him getting up under guys and carrying them downfield. That to me is dominant power run blocking and I didn't see it.

I was just expecting this guy driving DT into the turf and I didn't see it. He doesn't have elite quickness. When he was asked to get out to the perimeter which was not that often cause they only really did on screens, I saw a whole lot of lunging and diving.

Solid player but nowhere near elite.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I think he is a very good prospect.

However for what the cowboys want...Cooper is the better prospect between the two.

Cooper is more suited for a zone blocking scheme because he is more athletic but he also has the added bonus of the possibility of playing at center.

So if both were on the board...AND...Dallas wanted to take one of them over other players...my prediction is that they would take Cooper over him.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

I suspect that if Cooper is gone, then Dallas would probably look at a Safety, D-line or a RT over Warmack. Heck, maybe even a linebacker. That is just my non-insider opinion.

Warmack would have fit in well a few years back, but I'm not so sure they want to spend a premium pick on him when he doesn't appear to be a great fit in their zone-blocking scheme.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This is exactly what I saw when I watched Warmack earlier in the year. Board called me crazy. I expect they will label you the same Fuzzy.


:laugh2:

 

[9darter]

100% agree, I think in 3-4 years Cooper will be known as the best guard from the draft.

Cooper is the better player, I don't even think it's close.

I pretty much agree with everything, Fuzzy said.

 

[Future]

This is exactly what I saw when I watched Warmack earlier in the year. Board called me crazy. I expect they will label you the same Fuzzy.


:laugh2:

I don't think its that uncommon, especially since a lot of people think Cooper will go first.

 

[DFWJC]

I was curious about the QB/Center comments.
Can I assume you were discussing the ND game only when they had the meltdown?

You do know they are best friends and roommates, right?
There is a huge level of respect and admiration from those two if you knew anything about them.

As for Warmack. If he goes in the top 10, I do think he will have been overdrafted.
If he drops to 18, I'd love to have him...though I do prefer Cooper over him overall with our scheme.

Back the QB. This is the classic example of how a QB can have crzy-good numbers (TD/int ratio) when he has a dominant (or at least good) line. Even a JAG QB can have great success if he is well protected 90% of the time.

 

[TheFinisher]

I hope the 17 teams in front of us talk themselves out of Warmack too, that way the best player in the draft falls into our laps.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't think its that uncommon, especially since a lot of people think Cooper will go first.

I don't think he is a first round talent. Not particularly powerful nor mobile a 1st rounder does not make.

 

[tm1119]

For everybody saying they saw the same thing and slobbering over Cooper.....what the heck do you see when you watch Cooper tape? Cooper sure as heck isn't driving d lineman straight back with power. And that was in the ACC which is a much inferior football conference to the SEC. Cooper is more athletic and mobile, sure, but there is absolutely no argument that he is a better at the line of attack blocker.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I was curious about the QB/Center comments.
Can I assume you were discussing the ND game only when they had the meltdown?

You do know they are best friends and roommates, right?
There is a huge level of respect and admiration from those two if you knew anything about them.

As for Warmack. If he goes in the top 10, I do think he will have been overdrafted.
If he drops to 18, I'd love to have him...though I do prefer Cooper over him overall with our scheme.

Back the QB. This is the classic example of how a QB can have crzy-good numbers (TD/int ratio) when he has a dominant (or at least good) line. Even a JAG QB can have great success if he is well protected 90% of the time.

I don't watch NCAA games on principle and like I said I don't get into the ESPN story lines as I don't watch ESPN unless it's my pro teams' games.

Womack in particular was letting himself get backed into the QBs lap. That's why I am not impressed with him. You have to run the ball when your QB is that inaccurate and he gets pressure in his face. If those LSU DTs could've keyed in on the pass it would have been a long day for AL.

Womack and the center sure could tandem block though. Saban had a well coached offensive line.

 

[RS12]

I thought Warmack did his best work in the SEC title game versus Georgia. Manhandling everything in his path. Georgia has at least five guys in their front seven who will play on Sundays. Watch some of the seal blocks he got on guys who will be good pros. I am 100% certain he will have a better career than DeCastro. I am 80% certain he will make multiple Pro Bowls. I am 95% certain he WONT be drafted by the Cowboys if he is available FWIW

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

For everybody saying they saw the same thing and slobbering over Cooper.....what the heck do you see when you watch Cooper tape? Cooper sure as heck isn't driving d lineman straight back with power. And that was in the ACC which is a much inferior football conference to the SEC. Cooper is more athletic and mobile, sure, but there is absolutely no argument that he is a better at the line of attack blocker.

I watched Cooper and he would anchor and not give ground. It was against MD and VT. He wasn't drive blocking DT downfield but he would drive them to the turf. He gets high in his stance when moving forward which limited his effectiveness. Temas would slant at him a lot and he didn't use his hands particularly well.

In space it's not even close. Womack spent a whole lot of time on the ground. Where Womack was exploding off the line straight ahead into the LB which it seem ND never adjusted to, Cooper was getting to the second level, turning and sealing guys. He could pick off safeties when he pulled where Womack dived and missed them.

I would rather pick up Richardson myself. Richardson has a good motor, explodes off the ball, a good feel for the game ie reading screens or disengaging and and angles for pursuit. All of that with talent around him that was clearly overmatched. TN and AL gameplanned around him extensively and he still made plays. He got washed out a lot because they shcemed around hhim but I was impressed.

I looked at a bit of Vacarro there isn't much out there. They played him a lot in the slot so I think the criticism of him not making plays on the ball is overrated. His ability to diagnose run/pass which is key for this defense was off the charts good but he was at best inconsistent tacking on passes/runs into his zone.

This is all youtube scouting obviously. I want to see Floyd and the Star guy. I haven't yet. But of the OG, Vacarro and Richardson I liked Richardson best by far, Cooper and Vacarro after that as a wash and I would trade down if all 3 were gone and Womack was left.

 

[DFWJC]

I don't watch NCAA games on principle and like I said I don't get into the ESPN story lines as I don't watch ESPN unless it's my pro teams' games.

Womack in particular was letting himself get backed into the QBs lap. That's why I am not impressed with him. You have to run the ball when your QB is that inaccurate and he gets pressure in his face. If those LSU DTs could've keyed in on the pass it would have been a long day for AL.

Womack and the center sure could tandem block though. Saban had a well coached offensive line.

I was asking about the QB.
Was that just in the ND game that you saw total disrespect by the center for the QB?

I understand your take on Womack. I would disagree that he's not 1st round material. But no big deal. I do think they hype is gotten out of hand.

 

[tm1119]

I watched Cooper and he would anchor and not give ground. It was against MD and VT. He wasn't drive blocking DT downfield but he would drive them to the turf. He gets high in his stance when moving forward which limited his effectiveness. Temas would slant at him a lot and he didn't use his hands particularly well.

In space it's not even close. Womack spent a whole lot of time on the ground. Where Womack was exploding off the line straight ahead into the LB which it seem ND never adjusted to, Cooper was getting to the second level, turning and sealing guys. He could pick off safeties when he pulled where Womack dived and missed them.

I would rather pick up Richardson myself. Richardson has a good motor, explodes off the ball, a good feel for the game ie reading screens or disengaging and and angles for pursuit. All of that with talent around him that was clearly overmatched. TN and AL gameplanned around him extensively and he still made plays. He got washed out a lot because they shcemed around hhim but I was impressed.

I looked at a bit of Vacarro there isn't much out there. They played him a lot in the slot so I think the criticism of him not making plays on the ball is overrated. His ability to diagnose run/pass which is key for this defense was off the charts good but he was at best inconsistent tacking on passes/runs into his zone.

This is all youtube scouting obviously. I want to see Floyd and the Star guy. I haven't yet. But of the OG, Vacarro and Richardson I liked Richardson best by far, Cooper and Vacarro after that as a wash and I would trade down if all 3 were gone and Womack was left.

Quick, name 1 defensive lineman on either Maryland or Va Tech....I'll wait. And now that I'm looking at it I think Goodman from Clemson is the only d lineman from the ACC (not named Sly Williams) that will even get drafted at all. SEC and ACC are different worlds when it comes to defensive play. Cooper would not have been pushing anybody back or knocking anybody down playing SEC football. Not many o-lineman can really.

I like Cooper and would be very happy if we drafted, but people need to stop acting like there is a big gap between him and Warmack. Or a gap at all really.