O/T why is this not the lead on sportscenter?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Hey man I hear ya. I just think allen is an above average player. And seeing that he is playing against the colts offense, I would think they would bring it up.

I dont think he is an elite player like you said just above average!!

Here is even a better example of someone you could use.

Leonard Little.

I mean the man kills someone in a DUI and they do the story a few days and than seem to drop it.

Jerry Rice gets busted in a "massage Parlor" and not much is ever said about it...of course Jerry Rice at the time was one of the leagues golden boys.

Here is another example from a few years ago...and really one of the main reasons I quit watching the NBA all together...have not watched an NBA game since.

The bulls were the powerhouse of the NBA. For some time they could just not get over the hump, but finally they did. Jordan was the golden boy of the NBA...even when he left they kept using him to pimp the NBA.

However what got to me was during the bulls championship runs Rodman came aboard with the bulls.

Now don't get me wrong, rodman was a person similar to TO in the idea that he garnered media attention and brought a great deal on himself.

But what I found troubling is during a game, Jordan would get away with obvious fouls because he was the NBA darling, while Rodman at times could just look at a person and get a Tech Foul. IT was crazy...like I said rodman did many thing and brought many things on himself...but there were indeed times when he would do nothing and get T-Fouls while the same game Jordan would get no fouls on things that were obvious.

The bigger issue to me was that it was going on with the refs/and nba, for the same team...and that was what made it so obvious to me.

So I am not saying you are wrong Theebs...I see it happen.

I am just giving some opinions of why Jared Allen is not garnering the attention .

 

[LaTunaNostra]

I find it funny that some try to appear level-headed and unbiased when they talk negative about Owens, .. when we all know that isn't the truth.

They don't need to do that anymore.

We all know who doesn't like him and we know most of the reasons why.

Those opinions would be respected more if you actually gave him credit where credit is due, and then point out fault where it is due.

When all they bring is negative, I lose interest in what they are saying, because the source is obvious.

Why don't you say who 'they' are?

Afraid 'they' will pull up mega threads in which they defended his drops, or the unfair portion of the press coverage?

The 'level-headed' do include those of us who admire his play, yet loathe his grandstanding, napping, calling our asst coaches as snitches, spitting, claiming Kickers should not have been cut, and endless foot-in-mouthing.

Refusing to enable immature or unsportsmanlike behavior should in no way be a litmus test for 'fairness'. Wholesale absolution of anyone's poor behavior does no one good.

It's also unfair that Bill should have to constantly ward off mediots because Owens has his odd relationship with the press to maintain. Tuna has done a great job of minimizing the harm Owens could have done, but it's a shame a 65 year old coach with Parcells' pedigree should have had to spend ONE second this year even entertaining questions about ANY player's behavior or remarks. Imagine if there were 52 others like Owens.

When Bill makes his decision to stay or leave, based on how much energy he still has to do the job, it's fair to say Owens will NOT have driven him from the game, as many claimed he would. That is all to BP's credit - he's handled the situation BRILLIANTLY.

But we will never know how much the circus has sapped Bill's energy, and how much the thought of another year of it may figure in his decision.

If you choose to justify or rationalize every thing the man does, fine.

But there are those of us who can and do freely admit Owens has done well for this team this year, but call him out for various antics that have put the whole team under the mediot microscope, and put pressure on Bill to 'prove' he has the locker room under control.

Just shut up and play is the advice most of us have given, but Owens has proven himself capable of only doing the latter.

 

[theebs]

Here is even a better example of someone you could use.

Leonard Little.

I mean the man kills someone in a DUI and they do the story a few days and than seem to drop it.

Jerry Rice gets busted in a "massage Parlor" and not much is ever said about it...of course Jerry Rice at the time was one of the leagues golden boys.

Here is another example from a few years ago...and really one of the main reasons I quit watching the NBA all together...have not watched an NBA game since.

The bulls were the powerhouse of the NBA. For some time they could just not get over the hump, but finally they did. Jordan was the golden boy of the NBA...even when he left they kept using him to pimp the NBA.

However what got to me was during the bulls championship runs Rodman came aboard with the bulls.

Now don't get me wrong, rodman was a person similar to TO in the idea that he garnered media attention and brought a great deal on himself.

But what I found troubling is during a game, Jordan would get away with obvious fouls because he was the NBA darling, while Rodman at times could just look at a person and get a Tech Foul. IT was crazy...like I said rodman did many thing and brought many things on himself...but there were indeed times when he would do nothing and get T-Fouls while the same game Jordan would get no fouls on things that were obvious.

The bigger issue to me was that it was going on with the refs/and nba, for the same team...and that was what made it so obvious to me.

So I am not saying you are wrong Theebs...I see it happen.

I am just giving some opinions of why Jared Allen is not garnering the attention .

Again I agree completely. The leonard little stuff is really disturbing, someones family member was lost because of him and he received basically no punishment. Similar to vince neil.

Its just confusing and insulting. It also is very clear why it is not made a big deal of. I was just bringing it up because, I thought it would be something we would hear about, because of how important he is in stopping manning and the colts.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Why don't you say who 'they' are?

Afraid 'they' will pull up mega threads in which they defended his drops, or the unfair portion of the press coverage?

The 'level-headed' do include those of us who admire his play, and loathe his grandstanding, napping, calling our asst coaches as snitches, spitting, claiming Kickers should not have been cut, and endless foot-in-mouthing.

Refusing to enable immature or unsportsmanlike behavior should in no way be a litmus test for 'fairness'. Wholesale absolution of anyone's poor behavior does no one good.

It's also unfair that Bill should have to constantly ward off mediots because Owens has his odd relationship with the press to maintain. Tuna has done a great job of minimizing the harm Owens could have done, but it's a shame a 65 year old coach with Parcells' pedigree should have had to spend ONE second this year even entertaining questions about ANY player's behavior or remarks. Imagine if there were 52 others like Owens.

When Bill makes his decision to stay or leave, based on how much energy he still has to do the job, it's fair to say Owens will NOT have driven him from the game, as many claimed he would. That is all to BP's credit - he's handled the situation BRILLIANTLY.

But we will never know how much the circus has sapped Bill's energy, and how much the thought of another year of it may figure in his decision.

If you choose to justify or rationalize every thing the man does, fine.

But there are those of us who can and do freely admit Owens has done well for this team this year, but call him out for various antics that have put the whole team under the mediot microscope, and put pressure on Bill to 'prove' he has the locker room udner control.

Just shut up and play is the advice most of us have given, but Owens has proven himself capable of only doing the latter.

Ding Ding Ding.

Owens has done a heck of a job, minus he drops, and put up very good numbers this year. There may be a few who deny that but I can't.

But all of the good he does on the field is often over shadowed by his goofy antics or words to the media.

He is not guilty of everything the media brings on him...but he is without doubt not innocent of everything either.

 

[WV Cowboy]

A couple of your last posts have been great, and have given many many excellent examples of the double standard in sports reporting, media.

And although Owens is a magnet for attention, he is yet another victim of the media double standard which you so eloquently have described.

He is by no means innocent, but he gets a double whammy of the exact thing that you are talking about.

Doesn't make it right, but that is the way it is, like you say.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Ding Ding Ding.

Owens has done a heck of a job, minus he drops, and put up very good numbers this year. There may be a few who deny that but I can't.

But all of the good he does on the field is often over shadowed by his goofy antics or words to the media.

He is not guilty of everything the media brings on him...but he is without doubt not innocent of everything either.

Ding Ding Ding

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Ding Ding Ding.

Owens has done a heck of a job, minus he drops, and put up very good numbers this year. There may be a few who deny that but I can't.

But all of the good he does on the field is often over shadowed by his goofy antics or words to the media.

He is not guilty of everything the media brings on him...but he is without doubt not innocent of everything either.

What amuses me is his constant whining about the press attention...the 'if it were anyone else, no one would call attention to it'. Whereas if the press did overlook it, the guy would really go over the edge. Being ignored is the one tactic exhibitionists can't handle.

Well, let's see what tomorrow night brings. Hopefully, it's a win that features Owens enough to keep the whining to a minimum..AND the need to do something other than play to get the limelight back on him.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

What amuses me is his constant whining about the press attention...the 'if it were anyone else, no one would call attention to it'. Whereas if the press did overlook it, the guy would really go over the edge. Being ignored is the one tactic exhibitionists can't handle.

Well, let's see what tomorrow night brings. Hopefully, it's a win that features Owens enough to keep the whining to a minimum..AND the need to do something other than play to get the limelight back on him.

The demented side of me sometimes wishes to see the following...

The reporters come into the locker room and head to TO's locker.

TO is sitting there with a huge smile on his face just loving it.

The Reporter asks a simple question and TO starts talking about something that you know will start a media storm.

Just as he is getting into something that is going to set stuff off a shoe comes flying from across the room and lodges right in his big mouth.

The cameras turn towards where the shoe came from.

Bill is just standing there with his hands behind his back, rocking on the balls of his feet, head up like he is scanning the ceiling and whistling a little.

:laugh2:

 

[LaTunaNostra]

The demented side of me sometimes wishes to see the following...

The reporters come into the locker room and head to TO's locker.

TO is sitting there with a huge smile on his face just loving it.

The Reporter asks a simple question and TO starts talking about something that you know will start a media storm.

Just as he is getting into something that is going to set stuff off a shoe comes flying from across the room and lodges right in his big mouth.

The cameras turn towards where the shoe came from.

Bill is just standing there with his hands behind his back, rocking on the balls of his feet, head up like he is scanning the ceiling and whistling a little.

:laugh2:

:laugh1: :laugh1:

It wouldn't have to be something as hard as a shoe, BP.

Your garden variety athletic sock would do just fine.

 

[WV Cowboy]

The demented side of me sometimes wishes to see the following...

The reporters come into the locker room and head to TO's locker.

TO is sitting there with a huge smile on his face just loving it.

The Reporter asks a simple question and TO starts talking about something that you know will start a media storm.

Just as he is getting into something that is going to set stuff off a shoe comes flying from across the room and lodges right in his big mouth.

The cameras turn towards where the shoe came from.

Bill is just standing there with his hands behind his back, rocking on the balls of his feet, head up like he is scanning the ceiling and whistling a little.

:laugh2:

You would think that if you were the head coach, and something was bothering you so much, that you would have addressed that by now.

I would.

If not, you allow a big pink elephant in to the relationship.

Maybe these things don't bother him, just as he has said in PC's.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

You would think that if you were the head coach, and something was bothering you so much, that you would have addressed that by now.

I would.

If not, you allow a big pink elephant in to the relationship.

Maybe these things don't bother him, just as he has said in PC's.

Maybe it does not bother him....I am not bill so I can't say for a fact.

However IMO it does bother him.

 

[Oh_Canada]

What has T.O said this season that has beeennn soooooo bothersome? What he complained cause he didn't get the ball enough after a loss in which he had little involvement...so do half the recievers in the league.

I'm sorry, but I happen to like T.O. I like him because he comes across to me as honest. More honest than three quarters of the players in the NFL or for that matter most pro athletes. He has also never been caught using drugs, never been arrested for anything, and generally seems like a good citizen.

If his only fault is that he gets emotional and occassionally says things people don't want to hear...well than "f" them. That's what he feels and to me it's a breath of fresh air.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

What has T.O said this season that has beeennn soooooo bothersome? What he complained cause he didn't get the ball enough after a loss in which he had little involvement...so do half the recievers in the league.

I'm sorry, but I happen to like T.O. I like him because he comes across to me as honest. More honest than three quarters of the players in the NFL or for that matter most pro athletes. He has also never been caught using drugs, never been arrested for anything, and generally seems like a good citizen.

If his only fault is that he gets emotional and occassionally says things people don't want to hear...well than "f" them. That's what he feels and to me it's a breath of fresh air.

I don't like you countries bacon...therefore....

 

[WV Cowboy]

Maybe it does not bother him....I am not bill so I can't say for a fact.

However IMO it does bother him.

If you are right, and it does bother him, and he has not dealt with it directly with Owens, ... shame on him.

And he gets what he deserves.

I can't imagine a HC tolerating something a player is doing without addressing it with him.

 

[Jarv]

I don't like you countries bacon...therefore....

Canadian bacon rocks !

I swear Brain, sometimes you are such a ham.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

I can't imagine a HC tolerating something a player is doing without addressing it with him.

Right, shame on Bill for is handling of a notorious "issue". :laugh1:

Just another example of how it's ALWAYS someone else's fault. ALWAYS someone's else's failing.

It couldn't POSSIBLY be that Owens himself marches to a different drummer, and you CANNOT treat him like the other 52.

Part of handling volatile egos (the kind that are known to go off on hcs on the sideline for daring to question an endzone nap) is understanding just how far direct confrontation will go in solving the problem. And how much it could 'blow things up'.

Faced with a player who screams 'He didn't respect me' at the slightest imagined slight, the coach who understands psychology does NOT confront.

That is what Reid did. Tuna understood ignoring (as long as things didn't go too far) while at the same time not allowing his locker room to fracture,was the better tactic.

But by all means, the 'shame' is on Bill for not participating in or precipitating in the kind of tug-a-war that last year had Owens screaming at the top on his lungs in the Philly lockerroom "Come on, anyone who wanta a piece of me, here I am".

The mentally ill require 'special' treatment.

Props to Bill for understanding that.

And he gets what he deserves.

Unbelievable! LOL!

 

[WV Cowboy]

Right, shame on Bill for is handling of a notorious "issue". :laugh1:

Just another example of how it's ALWAYS someone else's fault. ALWAYS someone's else's failing.

It couldn't POSSIBLY be that Owens himself marches to a different drummer, and you CANNOT treat him like the other 52.

Part of handling volatile egos (the kind that are known to go off on hcs on the sideline for daring to question an endzone nap) is understanding just how far direct confrontation will go in solving the problem. And how much it could 'blow things up'.

Faced with a player who screams 'He didn't respect me' at the slightest imagined slight, the coach who understands psychology does NOT confront.

That is what Reid did. Tuna understood ignoring (as long as things didn't go too far) while at the same time not allowing his locker room to fracture,was the better tactic.

But by all means, the 'shame' is on Bill for not participating in or precipitating in the kind of tug-a-war that last year had Owens screaming at the top on his lungs in the Philly lockerroom "Come on, anyone who wanta a piece of me, here I am".

The mentally ill require 'special' treatment.

Props to Bill for understanding that.

Man, you have issues with Owens ! :laugh2:

I have noticed that you may not realize this, but "handling" a situation or "dealing with it" does not always involve confrontation.

Believe it or not, confrontation is not always the answer to the issue.

And what I am suggesting is treating him just like the other 52, not different.

If you have something to discuss with Owens, go to him and discuss it.

My point was that, all that bothers you does not bother Parcells. Thank goodness he is not so petty to let it.

I don't think Parcells feels threatened by Owens at all.

If he did have a problem, I think he WOULD handle the situation without confrontation, but he would handle it. I don't think he would let that pink elephant exist in the lockerroom, I give him way more credit than that.

They seem to be doing just fine together. They don't hang out, but at the end of the Carolina game you could tell they are doing just fine as coach/player.

He even says as much in the PC's.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

e

Man, you have issues with Owens ! :laugh2:

I have noticed that you may not realize this, but "handling" a situation or "dealing with it" does not always involve confrontation.

Believe it or not, confrontation is not always the answer to the issue.

And what I am suggesting is treating him just like the other 52, not different.

That is just ludicrous. You CANNOT treat this guy like everyone else. He has the classic martyr complex, sees himself as a victim, and holds grudges forever. The word "betrayal' falls from his lips whenever he feels crossed.

Parcells has long been known as a coach who understands psychology, and usually gets it nailed. He obviously understood that he could not call TO out like he does Marcus Spears or Pat Crayton. Could not make an issue of drops in pcs, or challenge TO to run better routes the way he would other players.

It doesn't mean Bill backs down, it means he understands the risk-reward factor there too. And that is that it isn't worth it to incite Owens considerable rage or fuel his victim complex. Then you DO have a problem. He has to be placated, but not enabled. If that much isn't obvious, I don't know what is.

The press baited Tuna all year, and not once did he give in to the urge to utter anything that could be taken by Owens as signs of 'betrayal'. Tuna was diplomatic, without ever directly backing off a moral issue. He did this by generalizing TO's behaviour to 'the game' or "football players" in such a way that the other guys would understand what was or was not acceptable.

Just go back and listen to the pc responses after the spitting incident, and the napping. Classic behavioral strategies, which any parent recognizes - you don't need to be a shrink to understand that not all children CAN be treated the same. Not all are as well balanced.

If you have something to discuss with Owens, go to him and discuss it.

Do you think after Bill heard Owens whine on national tv that Bill wasn't solicitous enough after the OD, that he would then go and ask him why he felt that way? No, the strategy has been not to use any more words than needed, not to get into discussion, because every interaction has the possibility, or even probability, of being misconstrued. The less you interact, the less op for a blow up. When dealing with paranoia, even egregious butt kissing can backfire. And misinterpretation with TO results in grudges.

My point was that, all that bothers you does not bother Parcells. Thank goodness he is not so petty to let it.

Of course, Bill can't afford to be as petty as a fan. BP has a team to run, and has a mission - to win. But no one knows how much or how little the whole circus has annoyed, irritated, or distressed Bill this year. He may have shrugged it all off and the blase face he shows the press is how he really feels.

Or he could have been up every night this season, sleepless, wondering how best to approach the TO-Haley situation, and the endless press baiting. Hence, his lack of energy late season.

Just because Bill managed to get this team thru a season without a major incident, doesn't mean it came easy. That Bill's fine effort did not take a toll.

I don't think Parcells feels threatened by Owens at all.

I'd bet my life he feels his team threatened by the possibility of what the whole football world saying/hoping would come to pass, actually would.

A sword of Damocles hanging all season, even if Bill did prevent it from dropping. The man loves his team, HIS players. He is entirely protective of their well being, and the perception of it.

If he did have a problem, I think he WOULD handle the situation without confrontation, but he would handle it. I don't think he would let that pink elephant exist in the lockerroom, I give him way more credit than that.

But he DID handle it. By shutting down as much communication as possible. By Owens' own admission, by making the relationship professional, but not the personal one he has with so many other players. By not criticizing, but by not opening his arms either. By keeping Owens in some ways an outsider, he could not hurt the team with any of his antics, or thru the resultant press.

They seem to be doing just fine together. They don't hang out, but at the end of the Carolina game you could tell they are doing just fine as coach/player.

He even says as much in the PC's.

Exactly. It's a professional relationship, and that means understanding that 'discussion' of the kinds of things you might bring up to the less volatile with no thought at all, cannot be broached.

But to say you can deal with TO like you can any other personality is absurd.

And totally denigrates Bill's masterful job handling of Owens this year.

 

[lane]

i wish we had jared allen...

that is one bad ace dude.

allen and ware together would be allsome!!

 

[Bleu Star]

e

That is just ludicrous. You CANNOT treat this guy like everyone else. He has the classic martyr complex, sees himself as a victim, and holds grudges forever. The word "betrayal' falls from his lips whenever he feels crossed.

Parcells has long been known as a coach who understands psychology, and usually gets it nailed. He obviously understood that he could not call TO out like he does Marcus Spears or Pat Crayton. Could not make an issue of drops in pcs, or challenge TO to run better routes the way he would other players.

It doesn't mean Bill backs down, it means he understands the risk-reward factor there too. And that is that it isn't worth it to incite Owens considerable rage or fuel his victim complex. Then you DO have a problem. He has to be placated, but not enabled. If that much isn't obvious, I don't know what is.

The press baited Tuna all year, and not once did he give in to the urge to utter anything that could be taken by Owens as signs of 'betrayal'. Tuna was diplomatic, without ever directly backing off a moral issue. He did this by generalizing TO's behaviour to 'the game' or "football players" in such a way that the other guys would understand what was or was not acceptable.

Just go back and listen to the pc responses after the spitting incident, and the napping. Classic behavioral strategies, which any parent recognizes - you don't need to be a shrink to understand that not all children CAN be treated the same. Not all are as well balanced.



Do you think after Bill heard Owens whine on national tv that Bill wasn't solicitous enough after the OD, that he would then go and ask him why he felt that way? No, the strategy has been not to use any more words than needed, not to get into discussion, because every interaction has the possibility, or even probability, of being misconstrued. The less you interact, the less op for a blow up. When dealing with paranoia, even egregious butt kissing can backfire. And misinterpretation with TO results in grudges.



Of course, Bill can't afford to be as petty as a fan. BP has a team to run, and has a mission - to win. But no one knows how much or how little the whole circus has annoyed, irritated, or distressed Bill this year. He may have shrugged it all off and the blase face he shows the press is how he really feels.

Or he could have been up every night this season, sleepless, wondering how best to approach the TO-Haley situation, and the endless press baiting. Hence, his lack of energy late season.

Just because Bill managed to get this team thru a season without a major incident, doesn't mean it came easy. That Bill's fine effort did not take a toll.



I'd bet my life he feels his team threatened by the possibility of what the whole football world saying/hoping would come to pass, actually would.

A sword of Damocles hanging all season, even if Bill did prevent it from dropping. The man loves his team, HIS players. He is entirely protective of their well being, and the perception of it.



But he DID handle it. By shutting down as much communication as possible. By Owens' own admission, by making the relationship professional, but not the personal one he has with so many other players. By not criticizing, but by not opening his arms either. By keeping Owens in some ways an outsider, he could not hurt the team with any of his antics, or thru the resultant press.



Exactly. It's a professional relationship, and that means understanding that 'discussion' of the kinds of things you might bring up to the less volatile with no thought at all, cannot be broached.

But to say you can deal with TO like you can any other personality is absurd.

And totally denigrates Bill's masterful job handling of Owens this year.

That's a wrap folks. LTN has got it all figured out where it pertains to that which is TO.