Offensive Holding Penalty Facts- Cowboys vs Opponents

[MarcusRock]

What is this?

It's Parsons using a rip move which falls into the exceptions of the holding rule like I've told you every time you try to post this still photo without context to insinuate a hold when holding is a motion penalty you have to see via video. Works on some people, just not on those in the know.

 

[Runwildboys]

Which would make you one. Kudos to Bob for the stealth thread in detecting all the conspiracy folk.

Like a moth to a flame, drawn by the fire ...

Are you saying it makes me a conspiracy theorist to admit that my opinion might be wrong?

 

[Runwildboys]

Go on any football forum and you'll find threads where fans think the refs are out to get their team. They can't all be right, but they could all be wrong.

I don't think for a moment that they're out to get us. But I allow for the .01% possibility of being mistaken.

 

[plasticman]

No matter how experienced or capable, referees are human. Any time a human element is involved, perfection is an impossibility. However, the more frequently flaws are made, the closer every team comes to an equal amount of fairness. It's simply the Law of Averages.

Can referee calls be more accurate? Certainly, and I'm sure they work on that. It hurts when the outcome of a game depends on it, but I don't beleive in any type of conspiracy against the Cowboys by the refs.

 

[Blackrain]

You got to love it every time people question whether the NFL is a completely and totally pure uncorrupted entity.

They are labeled conspiracy theorists by the people who still believe in Santa Claus the Easter Bunny and think the moon is made of green cheese.

It's really a hoot everything we grew up believing in that was uncorruptible has been proven without a doubt to be totally corrupted why should the NFL be any different.

It's not a game anymore it's the entertainment industry and it's designed to make money and the owners let go on what needs to be done to make the maximum amount of money and if that means manipulate certain games at certain times by way of the referees to get maximum revenue They are on board doing it.

There is no conspiracy there in it to make the most money they can and they use whatever methods they need to do that.

 

[MarcusRock]

Are you saying it makes me a conspiracy theorist to admit that my opinion might be wrong?

No, just having fun with this. You're not one that takes this stuff seriously. Should have included something to show I was joking.

 

[MarcusRock]

You got to love it every time people question whether the NFL is a completely and totally pure uncorrupted entity.

They are labeled conspiracy theorists by the people who still believe in Santa Claus the Easter Bunny and think the moon is made of green cheese.

It's really a hoot everything we grew up believing in that was uncorruptible has been proven without a doubt to be totally corrupted why should the NFL be any different.

It's not a game anymore it's the entertainment industry and it's designed to make money and the owners let go on what needs to be done to make the maximum amount of money and if that means manipulate certain games at certain times by way of the referees to get maximum revenue They are on board doing it.

There is no conspiracy there in it to make the most money they can and they use whatever methods they need to do that.

Who in the world could think that the moon is made of green cheese? Do you see green when you look at the moon? If so, perhaps you need new lenses. Lol.

Listen, I'm not naive to the fact that big business will always try to stack the odds in their favor but what does the NFL have to fear? They're basically a monopoly that makes money hand over fist no matter what. Why would you risk getting exposed for manipulation when you're already on the money train naturally. But let me put on a conspiracy hat for a second. If I wanted to manipulate games to make them flow how I wanted, I would not use the refs. First off, you have to wait for an actual (or close if you were being crooked) penalty to unfold. Sure you could not make calls but with everything videoed, how bad would it look that 4 blatant calls go uncalled on a pivotal drive in a playoff game? Relying on the refs leaves too much to chance and too much scrutiny.

If you really want to rig games, you start with the player that has the ball in his hands the most: QBs. You only have to get to a few and they can literally throw away games for you if that's what you need as a big boss. Pay 'em a few mil under the table and they would think nothing of it. The price goes up the more important the game. I don't know about you but no Super Bowl QB looked more like he was on the take than Neil O'Donnell against us. Who throws those passes? So while I'm not a fan of conspiracy because it looks like a convenient excuse for when your team loses (because there's crickets when we're winning), I can think that way if need be. My plan would be virtually undetectable and accomplish the same thing y'all think refs are trying to accomplish with hardly any questions asked. So if you want to talk conspiracy, why not go all out?

 

[ESisback]

Are you saying it makes me a conspiracy theorist to admit that my opinion might be wrong?

He’s got YOU pegged! Everyone else too! He OWNS us!

 

[Blackrain]

Who in the world could think that the moon is made of green cheese? Do you see green when you look at the moon? If so, perhaps you need new lenses. Lol.

Listen, I'm not naive to the fact that big business will always try to stack the odds in their favor but what does the NFL have to fear? They're basically a monopoly that makes money hand over fist no matter what. Why would you risk getting exposed for manipulation when you're already on the money train naturally. But let me put on a conspiracy hat for a second. If I wanted to manipulate games to make them flow how I wanted, I would not use the refs. First off, you have to wait for an actual (or close if you were being crooked) penalty to unfold. Sure you could not make calls but with everything videoed, how bad would it look that 4 blatant calls go uncalled on a pivotal drive in a playoff game? Relying on the refs leaves too much to chance and too much scrutiny.


If you really want to rig games, you start with the player that has the ball in his hands the most: QBs. You only have to get to a few and they can literally throw away games for you if that's what you need as a big boss. Pay 'em a few mil under the table and they would think nothing of it. The price goes up the more important the game. I don't know about you but no Super Bowl QB looked more like he was on the take than Neil O'Donnell against us. Who throws those passes? So while I'm not a fan of conspiracy because it looks like a convenient excuse for when your team loses (because there's crickets when we're winning), I can think that way if need be. My plan would be virtually undetectable and accomplish the same thing y'all think refs are trying to accomplish with hardly any questions asked. So if you want to talk conspiracy, why not go all out?

I like your take on it but players that made bad plays on purpose would very much negatively affect their career and they would be out of the game quickly where it seems referees can make bad calls continually and still be kept on.

When you asked how bad would it look if they missed four calls in a row it would look about as bad as it looks when you watch what they do to Micah that doesn't get called. Lol.

Why would you risk getting caught manipulating games the one thing that motivates many people to do stupid things and get caught GREED.

That's why those owners have meetings together so they're all on the same page that certain things have to be done at certain times to maximize profit.

It's definitely not a conspiracy because they all know about it it's a method of maximizing profits in what has become an industry based on entertainment rather than sportsmanship and fair play.

Just my opinion and I'm not trying to sway anyone to my way of thinking but I will say again and I can't name these entities because they are probably not allowed to be talked about on this site but every single one of them down to the boy scouts of America that we thought were wholesome pure and we could put our faith into have been proven corrupt.

So I just can't put the NFL up on a pinnacle and say they are above everything else.

 

[MarcusRock]

He’s got YOU pegged! Everyone else too! He OWNS us!

Nah, just you. You're 2 posts past that "buh bye" post now but still talking. No control, just like I said. However, you didn't want to talk about that Washington thing you did, now did you, "real fan?" Lol.

 

[MarcusRock]

I like your take on it but players that made bad plays on purpose would very much negatively affect their career and they would be out of the game quickly where it seems referees can make bad calls continually and still be kept on.

When you asked how bad would it look if they missed four calls in a row it would look about as bad as it looks when you watch what they do to Micah that doesn't get called. Lol.

Why would you risk getting caught manipulating games the one thing that motivates many people to do stupid things and get caught GREED.

That's why those owners have meetings together so they're all on the same page that certain things have to be done at certain times to maximize profit.

It's definitely not a conspiracy because they all know about it it's a method of maximizing profits in what has become an industry based on entertainment rather than sportsmanship and fair play.

Just my opinion and I'm not trying to sway anyone to my way of thinking but I will say again and I can't name these entities because they are probably not allowed to be talked about on this site but every single one of them down to the boy scouts of America that we thought were wholesome pure and we could put our faith into have been proven corrupt.

So I just can't put the NFL up on a pinnacle and say they are above everything else.

Well, that's why I'm saying it doesn't happen all the time, only when a big boss needs it. That way the player only throws things here and there and his good performance is mostly intact (although big bosses were calling on Dak a lot after that Denver game last year, lol). There's no doubt Goodell and the owners need to be on the same page to maximize profits. I'm just saying if you're going to influence something, you don't leave it to chance. Waiting for situations to happen in games among one or several 7-ref crews is leaving things to chance when you only need to approach one or a few QBs. I'm not naive that big business cares about anyone but their bottom lines but the bottom line has always been working. Why risk that among all these extra people you need to carry out your plans? You can't have just 1 ref do it because he can be overruled, so you need all 7 on board. 1 is less than 7 so go for the QB and you have more control and less risk.

Does the NFL only care about money? What business doesn't? But everyone is just shooting in the dark with their Scooby-Doo theories about how the NFL only cares about money when any real scheme would be beyond the common fan, I'll tell you that. The best laid schemes are the ones no one would ever think is possible. Look, I know things are crooked and that "that old time America" is just propaganda of a different shade, but if I can't pinpoint where the scheme is coming from here exactly why would I worry about it, especially in an entertainment realm? If it's rigged, just don't spoil the results. But if you want to, just tell me so I can bet on it for guaranteed winnings. Lol.

 

[Whirlwin]

I know many Cowboys fans think our opponents get away with holding way too much- especially on Micah Parsons. I mostly agree. So I found this NFL penalties website that logs each holding penalty called for each team at what point in the game.

According to the research I did there, the Cowboys have been called for offensive holding 8 times (11 but three were declined) and our opponents have been called 9 (10 but 1 was declined) times. Even though we may think it’s been “unfair”, our opponents have been flagged more than we have for offensive holding.

Here’s the link.
https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/offensive-holding?year=2022&view=log

As a side note, the NFL team with most holding penalties is the Seattle Seahawks with 12. As I mentioned earlier, the Cowboys have had 8.

Edit: Thanks to @doomsday9084 for the updated info.

Two minutes and one second left before halftime. Wilson is horse collared and thrown to the ground right in front of a referee. The Bears quarterback runs 12 yards for a first down.

 

[Blackspider214]

I know many Cowboys fans think our opponents get away with holding way too much- especially on Micah Parsons. I mostly agree. So I found this NFL penalties website that logs each holding penalty called for each team at what point in the game.

According to the research I did there, the Cowboys have been called for offensive holding 8 times (11 but three were declined) and our opponents have been called 9 (10 but 1 was declined) times. Even though we may think it’s been “unfair”, our opponents have been flagged more than we have for offensive holding.

Here’s the link.
https://www.nflpenalties.com/penalty/offensive-holding?year=2022&view=log

As a side note, the NFL team with most holding penalties is the Seattle Seahawks with 12. As I mentioned earlier, the Cowboys have had 8.

Edit: Thanks to @doomsday9084 for the updated info.

This doesn't tell the whole story. Just like you can't judge how fairly a game was called by simply looking at the penalties called.

This doesn't begin to show all the missed holding calls our opponents get away with. Missed calls and what happens after either that play and on after is a big factor. There was a point in the Bears game where they had a scoring drive extended because of a terrible missed holding call on 3rd down. It was 28-7 at the time. Had we easily got the sack as should, Bears punt and we put that game away at 35-7. But they score and cut it down 28-14. But none of that shows up on any stat sheet and you would never know by reports like what you posted.

 

[Blackrain]

Well, that's why I'm saying it doesn't happen all the time, only when a big boss needs it. That way the player only throws things here and there and his good performance is mostly intact (although big bosses were calling on Dak a lot after that Denver game last year, lol). There's no doubt Goodell and the owners need to be on the same page to maximize profits. I'm just saying if you're going to influence something, you don't leave it to chance. Waiting for situations to happen in games among one or several 7-ref crews is leaving things to chance when you only need to approach one or a few QBs. I'm not naive that big business cares about anyone but their bottom lines but the bottom line has always been working. Why risk that among all these extra people you need to carry out your plans? You can't have just 1 ref do it because he can be overruled, so you need all 7 on board. 1 is less than 7 so go for the QB and you have more control and less risk.

Does the NFL only care about money? What business doesn't? But everyone is just shooting in the dark with their Scooby-Doo theories about how the NFL only cares about money when any real scheme would be beyond the common fan, I'll tell you that. The best laid schemes are the ones no one would ever think is possible. Look, I know things are crooked and that "that old time America" is just propaganda of a different shade, but if I can't pinpoint where the scheme is coming from here exactly why would I worry about it, especially in an entertainment realm? If it's rigged, just don't spoil the results. But if you want to, just tell me so I can bet on it for guaranteed winnings. Lol.

I agree the quarterback would be the prime person to influence the game although I just don't believe you'd ever get anyone like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning to do that.

I also don't believe it's done all the time only certain games at certain times and I believe there are people monitoring the amount of viewing audience every game has and how the score influences people changing the channel and turning the game off.

Those people that monitor the viewing audience have obviously seen if you go into halftime with the score very close people will tend to keep watching if one team is three touchdowns ahead very good chance they change to something else.

There are bean counters in every form of business and the NFL is no different They probably have it narrowed down to the point where they can Tell how much revenue is lost between teams going in to halftime three points apart or two touchdowns apart.

You have to remember this isn't like baseball basketball or hockey where there's a ton of games.
There is pre-season 17 regular season games and the playoffs. That is a very tiny window compared to the other sports.

So strictly my opinion and I'm not trying to force it on anyone but I believe they are out to make every cent they can in the short window of time they have every season.

Hey brother I have basically accepted the way things are.
it is what it is but it does get frustrating sometimes

I think Micah would be able to break the single season sack record this year if he wasn't being held so much.

 

[MarcusRock]

I agree the quarterback would be the prime person to influence the game although I just don't believe you'd ever get anyone like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning to do that.

I also don't believe it's done all the time only certain games at certain times and I believe there are people monitoring the amount of viewing audience every game has and how the score influences people changing the channel and turning the game off.

Those people that monitor the viewing audience have obviously seen if you go into halftime with the score very close people will tend to keep watching if one team is three touchdowns ahead very good chance they change to something else.

There are bean counters in every form of business and the NFL is no different They probably have it narrowed down to the point where they can Tell how much revenue is lost between teams going in to halftime three points apart or two touchdowns apart.

You have to remember this isn't like baseball basketball or hockey where there's a ton of games.
There is pre-season 17 regular season games and the playoffs. That is a very tiny window compared to the other sports.

So strictly my opinion and I'm not trying to force it on anyone but I believe they are out to make every cent they can in the short window of time they have every season.

Hey brother I have basically accepted the way things are.
it is what it is but it does get frustrating sometimes

I think Micah would be able to break the single season sack record this year if he wasn't being held so much.

But you see, that's why Brady or Manning doing these things is genius. People still believe in the "hero narrative" and would never think such a thing. That's why it's perfect. Like you mention with corrupt agencies pretending they're so wholesome, the same goes for individuals, even the ones put on pedestals as pure sportsmen. Lance Armstrong went virtually unscathed for doping partly because people still didn't want to believe it even though he played in a doping playpen with that sport. But, but cancer and Livestrong though. Was a great marketing tool. People are so in love with the programming put into them by Disney that they'll deny their own existence rather than give it up.

I don't know how adspace is sold exactly, but I think it's sold beforehand. But what you say could influence how much people pay for 2nd half ads in the future if they think they won't get as many eyes. So I can admit there is incentive to keep games close in a case like that and it probably pays to do so. Again, if I don't know the eventual outcome, I can pretend it just happened that way. It wouldn't bother me if it was all scripted. I know the world isn't innocent and to me it's just sports. But rigging in other parts of our society where it hurts people because of greed, etc.? Yeah, that bothers me. But sports is my entertainment to help distract me from that.