Official Roy Halladay Trade Thread

[Rampage]

So? That's not even that much. Look at the Red Sox,Angels,Tigers,Cubs,Mets rosters. Are they not buying a ring either?

I'll say it again. The Yankees have the 2nd highest rate of homegrown players on their roster in the league. I don't know how you can really buy a ring when you also have the highest rate in the AL.

Therefore you got owned. Next please.

the yankees have a 680 million dollar infield not including Cano. the yankees/cashman are a joke

 

[SLATEmosphere]

the yankees have a 680 million dollar infield not including Cano. the yankees/cashman are a joke

And? That's what the market is. It's called inflation.

 

[Rampage]

And? That's what the market is. It's called inflation.

:laugh2: riiiiight.

 

[DIAF]

So? That's not even that much. Look at the Red Sox,Angels,Tigers,Cubs,Mets rosters. Are they not buying a ring either?

I'll say it again. The Yankees have the 2nd highest rate of homegrown players on their roster in the league. I don't know how you can really buy a ring when you also have the highest rate in the AL.

Therefore you got owned. Next please.

Uhm, no. YOU are owned. I don't give a **** if your bench players, middle relief, or the back end of your rotation are all homegrown. The Yankees impact players are all mostly hired guns, with the exception of Jeter, Joba, Rivera, and Posada.

Who do you think is doing most of the heavy lifting on the Yanks? The homegrown players?

LOL.

96 of the Yankees' 148 total homers this season have been hit by bought players.
301 of the 528 rbis.
3/5ths of the starting rotation, combining for 28 of the team's 61 wins and 34 of the team's 46 Quality Starts.

HMMMMMM

 

[ajk23az]

So? That's not even that much. Look at the Red Sox,Angels,Tigers,Cubs,Mets rosters. Are they not buying a ring either?

I'll say it again. The Yankees have the 2nd highest rate of homegrown players on their roster in the league. I don't know how you can really buy a ring when you also have the highest rate in the AL.

Therefore you got owned. Next please.

Uhm, no. YOU are owned. I don't give a **** if your bench players, middle relief, or the back end of your rotation are all homegrown. The Yankees impact players are all mostly hired guns, with the exception of Jeter, Joba, Rivera, and Posada.

Who do you think is doing most of the heavy lifting on the Yanks? The homegrown players?

LOL.

96 of the Yankees' 148 total homers this season have been hit by bought players.
301 of the 528 rbis.
3/5ths of the starting rotation, combining for 28 of the team's 61 wins and 34 of the team's 46 Quality Starts.

HMMMMMM

OWNED

Like DIAF said, who gives a crap if the people that never get to play are homegrown. They aren't the ones that are winning games for your team.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

:laugh2:

Two dogs fighting over who owns the dogs back.

All teams bring in talent. I doubt there is any team who has 50% of there roster home grown. That's just not how it works any longer.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Uhm, no. YOU are owned. I don't give a **** if your bench players, middle relief, or the back end of your rotation are all homegrown. The Yankees impact players are all mostly hired guns, with the exception of Jeter, Joba, Rivera, and Posada.

Who do you think is doing most of the heavy lifting on the Yanks? The homegrown players?

LOL.

96 of the Yankees' 148 total homers this season have been hit by bought players.
301 of the 528 rbis.
3/5ths of the starting rotation, combining for 28 of the team's 61 wins and 34 of the team's 46 Quality Starts.

HMMMMMM

Pettitte, Hughs and Aceves are all home grown. Technically, Matsui has never played for another MLB team.

 

[DIAF]

Pettitte, Hughs and Aceves are all home grown. Technically, Matsui has never played for another MLB team.

Pettite doesn't count anymore. He was brought in as a free agent. So was Matsui. Doesn't matter that he didnt come from some MLB's farm, he's still a FA.

I didn't count Hughes or Aceves in my totals from their starting pitching. All of what I cited is Burnett/Sabathia/Pettite.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Pettite doesn't count anymore. He was brought in as a free agent. So was Matsui. Doesn't matter that he didnt come from some MLB's farm, he's still a FA.

I didn't count Hughes or Aceves in my totals from their starting pitching. All of what I cited is Burnett/Sabathia/Pettite.

Pettite doesn't count anymore? That's crazy. He's got 12 seasons with the Yankees starting with his first 9 and three with Houston. He's been back with the Yanks since the 2007 season. Maybe he doesn't count to you but that is not how I see it. As for matsui, well, all of these guys were FAs at some point, unless they went straight from HS or College Ball to the Majors. All of them have contracts with minor league clubs and all of them have their contract purchased by the major league clubs.

Matsui played in Japan so you can view that how ever you like but technically, he is a Yankee Product. Most of all the Hispanic Ball Players played for other teams in other countries before they got contracts here in the states. They are all not being classified as FAs.

Hughes and Aceves are both valuable relievers who have made significant contributions. Aceves is 6-1 this year with a 2.89 ERA. Hughes is 4-2 with a 3.43 ERA. Both are key relief pitchers but if you are not counting Relievers, that's fine.

 

[Rogah]

They have a pretty good farm system. They just fill certain holes with high priced FA's. They want to win. Most people don't know that 58% of their current roster is homegrown. That's 2nd in the league to the Rockies. Jackson,Montero,Brackman and Betences are all legit prospects. There's nothing wrong with filling holes in your roster with big FA's. As a fan I wanna see that. Most of thier talent is homegrown and they have a misconception about them "buying" a ring.

I disagree. Your argument relies on a flawed premise. If we accept your figure that 58% of their roster is "home grown" it does not logically follow that the talent on the team is distributed equally amongst all 25 players. Clearly, much of the big-name talent on the Yankees club has been bought or aquired via trade. This includes A-Rod, Teixeira, Damon, Sabathia, Swisher, Matsui, Burnett and yes, even Pettitte who obviously started with NY but was aquired via free agency after a stint in Houston.

Of course, I have always considered this argument a ridiculous one. A championship is a championship, I don't care how the players were aquired. I never understood why people got all defensive when being accused of "buying a championship". Just to use the Red Sox as a comparison, they have "bought" or aquired via trade... Manny Ramirez, Beckett, Wakefield, Foulke, Pedro Martinez, Schilling, Timlin, Embree, Varitek, Lowe, Ortiz, Damon, Bellhorn, Millar, Mueller, Lowell, J.D. Drew, Cabrera and Matsuzaka. (NOTE: That list of Red Sox players includes those who contributed to either their 2004 or their 2007 championships).

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I disagree. Your argument relies on a flawed premise. If we accept your figure that 58% of their roster is "home grown" it does not logically follow that the talent on the team is distributed equally amongst all 25 players. Clearly, much of the big-name talent on the Yankees club has been bought or aquired via trade. This includes A-Rod, Teixeira, Damon, Sabathia, Swisher, Matsui, Burnett and yes, even Pettitte who obviously started with NY but was aquired via free agency after a stint in Houston.

Of course, I have always considered this argument a ridiculous one. A championship is a championship, I don't care how the players were aquired. I never understood why people got all defensive when being accused of "buying a championship". Just to use the Red Sox as a comparison, they have "bought" or aquired via free agency... Manny Ramirez, Beckett, Wakefield, Foulke, Pedro Martinez, Schilling, Timlin, Embree, Varitek, Lowe, Ortiz, Damon, Bellhorn, Millar, Mueller, Lowell, J.D. Drew, Cabrera and Matsuzaka. (NOTE: That list of Red Sox players includes those who contributed to either their 2004 or their 2007 championships).

What is the definition of Home Grown?

 

[ajk23az]

What is the definition of Home Grown?

Drafted by and brought up through their farm system is mine. I really can't think of another..

 

[Timbo2st]

Take the Phillies off the list

The Philadelphia Phillies and Cleveland Indians agreed to a trade that would bring Cliff Lee to the NL East leaders along with outfielder Ben Francisco for four minor leaguers, according to major league sources.

Triple-A right-hander Carlos Carrasco, Class A righty Jason Knapp, catcher Lou Marson -- the likely heir apparent to Victor Martinez -- and shortstop Jason Donald will be sent to Cleveland.

The trade is pending physical exams.

The Phillies weren't required to give up pitcher J.A. Happ or the three prospects they balked at trading for Roy Halladay -- outfielders Dominic Brown and Michael Taylor, and pitcher Kyle Drabek.

Lee, the 2008 AL Cy Young winner who turns 31 next month, is having another solid season for the Indians, posting a 3.14 ERA while walking just 33 in 152 innings. He will make $8 million in 2010 and then be eligible for free agency.

Lee, who was a guest on ESPN950 in Philadelphia Wednesday morning, was asked if he definitely plans to test free agency.

"That's where every player wants to be, so honestly, the closer I get to that point, the more likelihood I'm going to be testing free agency. But I still have a year and two months 'til then, so we'll see."

Lee would be the sixth Cy Young winner to be traded in the offseason or during the season following his Cy Young win. Last season, 2007 AL Cy Young winner CC Sabathia was traded by the Indians to the Milwaukee Brewers.

 

[Rogah]

Drafted by and brought up through their farm system is mine. I really can't think of another..

That's what I would say too, although I would have to add that they would have to had stayed with the team up to the current day. So to address the question of whether or not Pettitte can still be considered "home grown"... well, it's not something I really care about one way or the other, but I would personally put him in the "no" column because while he did come up in the Yankees system, the Yankees eventually aquired him via free agency. If the Red Sox went out and traded for Garciaparra, I wouldn't consider him "home grown" either.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That's what I would say too, although I would have to add that they would have to had stayed with the team up to the current day. So to address the question of whether or not Pettitte can still be considered "home grown"... well, it's not something I really care about one way or the other, but I would personally put him in the "no" column because while he did come up in the Yankees system, the Yankees eventually aquired him via free agency. If the Red Sox went out and traded for Garciaparra, I wouldn't consider him "home grown" either.

I don't really agree with this.

If a guy comes up through the system and plays for a team the large majority of his career, I'd say he's home grown. He was developed by that franchise so to me, that makes him a product of the Franchise to me.

 

[DIAF]

Wow, the Cleveland GM ought to be shot in both eyes for making that deal. They didn't get any of the phillies prized prospects for Lee. They got 2 good ones in Donald and Carrasco, but nothing i'd give up a #1 starter for. They got some 18 year old pitcher that they are apparently in love with, but he's at least 3 or 4 years away. Bleh.

 

[peplaw06]

What is the definition of Home Grown?

That's a tough one IMO. What if it's a prospect who was dealt when they were in the minor leagues?

I'm a Mariners fan from back since the Mid 90s, and we traded Ken Phelps for Jay Buhner when he had only played 7 total games for the Yankees. He's a life-long Mariner as far as I'm concerned.

I say if he's still a rookie his first year with your club, then I wouldn't consider his acquisition as part of "buying a championship" were that to occur.

 

[bbgun]

Just to use the Red Sox as a comparison, they have "bought" or aquired via trade... Manny Ramirez, Beckett, Wakefield, Foulke, Pedro Martinez, Schilling, Timlin, Embree, Varitek, Lowe, Ortiz, Damon, Bellhorn, Millar, Mueller, Lowell, J.D. Drew, Cabrera and Matsuzaka. (NOTE: That list of Red Sox players includes those who contributed to either their 2004 or their 2007 championships).

Tell me about it. Here's a breakdown of their 2004 World Series roster, featuring the players who actually took the field. Names in red denote "homegrown" players. Pathetic, no? Maybe this makes their championship less "legitimate" or "heartwarming" in DIAF's eyes. Like Sox fans give a damn.

Hitters:

Mark Bellhorn
Orlando Cabrera
Johnny Damon
Gabe Kapler
Derek Lowe
Doug Mientkiewicz
Kevin Millar
Doug Mirabelli
Bill Mueller
Trot Nixon
David Ortiz
Manny Ramirez
Pokey Reese
Jason Varitek


Pitchers:

Tim Wakefield
Bronson Arroyo
Alan Embree
Keith Foulke
Derek Lowe
Pedro Martínez
Curt Schilling
Mike Timlin
Tim Wakefield

 

[Rogah]

If we want to look at pure prospects, I have to give the Red Sox the upper hand. IMHO, they have the best prospects available for trade. But the Yankees cannot be ruled out because they can offer more money than any other team.

Now before anyone chimes in with the fact that you can't include cash payments (above $1 million, I believe) in a trade, what the Yankees can do is offer to take on Vernon Wells who is due something like $100 million in the next 5 years. Quite a bit for a guy hitting .265 since 2007. Getting rid of that behemoth contract would be just as valuable to Toronto as any prospect. I think they would be willing to take less from NY than from Boston if NY is willing to take on Wells.

 

[Rogah]

Tell me about his. Here's a breakdown of their 2004 World Series roster, featuring the players who actually took the field. Names in red denote "homegrown" players. Pathetic, no? Maybe this makes their championship less "legitimate" or "heartwarming" in DIAF's eyes. Like Sox fans give a damn.

Varitek came over from Seattle in the same trade that got Derek Lowe, so you can take him off the list as well In what has got to be one of the worst trades in Mariners history, they gave up Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe for Heathcliff Slocumb.

Dan Duquette couldn't draft to save his life. They had one of the worst Minor League systems in baseball. Current Red Sox management has done a better job. Pedroia, Buchholz, Lester and Ellsbury all come to mind off the top of my head.... not to mention Hanley Ramirez, whom they drafted and traded for Beckett and Lowell.