Ogletree put up some eye popping combine numbers

[LarryCanadian]

Nice listen on the Michael Irvin show. Ogletree sounds like he has a decent attitude. No real concerns show up when he talks about his history (personal issues, etc). He mentions not being perceived as a great "practice" player or having the best work ethic. He admits to being a bit inconsistent in practice (game guy) but disagreed with the work ethic part.

Thanks for the link Speed.

He certainly doesn't look "small" and the speed, and short distance burst/quickness is a real nice complement to rest of our squad at WR. The crisp route running puts him up the ladder as well.

LarryCanadian

 

[cowboyjoe]

[
his 20 yard shuttle and his three cone really demonstrate his incredible quickness and change of direction, which may be way he is able to run such smooth routes. Coming from a big school, where he put up decent stats, I wonder why he slipped through the cracks. Very weird.[/QUOTE]

i wrote a story on him, didnt you read it?
he had a severe leg injury, slowly came back from that, then didnt have a good qb his junior year;

Who is Kevin Ogletree?
« on: August 26, 2009, 01:56:53 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic

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Who is Kevin Ogletree?

High School and Personal
Kevin Ogletree was born August 5th, 1987 in Queens, N.Y., raised by his late grandmother, Patricia Rossianno. Now living with his uncle, Mark Rossianno, son of Leslie Ogletree, has an older brother, Calvin. Kevin’s great uncle played football at Fayetteville State and is in the school’s athletic Hall of Fame.

Electrifying wide receiver for coach Tom Pugh at Holy Cross High School, was the Daily News and Newsday Player of the Year as a senior after catching 61 passes for 1170 yards and 19 touchdowns, all figures that are league records, while being Newsday and Daily News All-City and All-Queens record stats. Kevin Ogletree had 19 touchdown catches one shy of the state record, that’s right one catch shy of the state record. Ogletree led his team to a conference championship while scoring three touchdowns in the title game, including one on a 64-yard interception, despite playing with a fractured wrist, and intercepted five passes. Yes, that’s right, Kevin played defensive back while at high school too and excelled there too. All conference performer as a junior when he caught 40 passes for 1027 yards and 10 touchdowns and also a standout in basketball and baseball, honor student.


One of only 26 players in ACC history with two-50 catch seasons in a career, Ogletree is ranked seventh in school history with 117 career receptions and 13th with 1332 receiving yards. “Kevin has been a significant part of our team,” said head coach Al Groh. “He was a strong performer and an excellent teammate. Kevin received his degree in December and feels this is the appropriate time for him to move on; we agree and support him in his decision and wish him much success.” Ogletree received his degree in sociology last month, a semester early. Again, this is a mark in a very bright person that can learn pro style offense and excel as a pro football player. Kevin Ogletree’s best receiving yardage game was vs. Maryland when he totaled 133 yards on just three catches, including 38- and 44-yard scoring receptions and Kevin also caught UVa’s longest pass in that game. His first touchdown catch was game-winner in overtime vs. Wyoming Kevin was brought along slowly as a true freshman, made the travel squad but didn’t get into his first game until the sixth week against Florida State but appeared in every game thereafter, including a start against Temple. Ogletree’s first reception was a five-yard catch at North Carolina while catching a team-leading five passes for 20 yards against Temple.

Kevin Ogletree was one of the Big School Sleepers at the NFL Combine. At the size of -6’0 1/2“ 196 pound and a redshirt junior to boot, Ogletree had one of the most impressive combines of any wide receiver, and was one of the best athletes at the NFL Scouting Combine, and in addition to his impressive physical tools, he flashed great ball skills and route-running ability at practice. Williams also made his mark and was outstanding in the bag and pursuit drills. Ogletree looked real good, he had a really great combine including an unofficial 4.37 40, and I think he was best in one of the cone drills too. There's the injury concern for some. Kevin had a devastating leg injury, which flared up somewhat in mini camp due to some nerve leg damage. So, in reality, Kevin looks like another steal that the Dallas Cowboys have gotten like Scandrick last year. I've read conflicting things about him: he has track-speed, but he can't get separation/not a deep threat. When DC a super Dallas Cowboy fans gave him an interview, Ogletree said that his deep threat speed wasn’t exploited while at Virginia for whatever reason. This may be a blessing in disguise for the Cowboys being able to get him as an undrafted player. So, his lack of experience in deep route running can be taught with veteran wide receivers, coaching staff and time to be bigger and stronger in offseason conditioning. If you go back and look at his high school numbers on deep routes, Ogletree excelled in deep routes. I am thinking more that the playing style of Virginia didn’t allow for deep routes, along with the departure of the school’s top 2 quarterbacks and Kevin’s leg injury. Kevin graduated early & sounds like a good citizen, but 1 report www.collegefootballnews.com said coaches "were not sad to see him go." Just who is this guy?


Combine Results Pro Day Results
Combine Invite: Yes
Here are his stats-
40 Yard Dash: From 4.37 to 4.38, Vertical Jump: 36, Broad Jump: 10'02", Short Shuttle: 4.08, 3-Cone Drill: 6.67
40 Time: 4.36 40 Low: 4.30 40 High: 4.53
Projected Round: 4 Stock: High: 3-4 Low: 5-6
Rated number 17 out of 311 WR's 124 / 2534 TOTAL
Height: 6004
Weight: 196
40 Yrd Dash: 4.36
20 Yrd Dash: 2.51
10 Yrd Dash: 1.50 225 Lb. Bench Reps:
Vertical Jump: 36
Broad Jump: 10'02"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.08
3-Cone Drill: 6.67
Draft Scout Snapshot: DS Rating on 1/7/09: #15 Junior WR, #134/750 Overall, Projected Rnd: 4-5 in 2010

As impressive as those numbers are his production was just average you could say at the University of Virginia with 58 catches, 723 yards, a 12.5 yard average, 5 TDs, with a long catch and run of 51 yards. However, Virginia had lost its top 2 QBs and Ogletree was clearly the best receiver on the team. Ogletree had 52 catches for 582 yards in 2006 and is seventh in Cavaliers history with 117 receptions, he missed 2007 with a fractured leg, he is a smooth vertical threat with the ability to go up and pluck the ball out of the air, he has some flaws he’ll need to learn beat press coverage and some of the little things like taking out the strong safety on a downfield play and make sharper cuts. If you listened to the interview of D C blog, you will learn that Ogletree just hasn’t been content to run routes, but learn, communicate with the defensive backs to learn techniques if he had given away his routes. Here is the link to the podcast of DC and Ogletree so you can form your own thoughts. http://www.dcfanatic.com/
Go down to the bottom of podcasts till you see interview with Ogletree at the bottom of dc fanatic‘s website.


While at training camp Ogletree has shown good hands, making several catches during 7-on-7 drills and another during team drills. One Cowboys observer noted that rookie free-agent WR Kevin Ogletree made a strong first impression, but Ogletree still is considered a long shot to make the team. Undrafted WR Kevin Ogletree had the most impressive catch of the day, making a leaping grab over Hamlin on a skinny post during one-on-one drills. Here are some more reports on Ogletree at mini camp. Two more rookies who opened eyes at practice were undrafted free-agent wide receiver Kevin Ogletree and linebacker Jason Williams, a third-round draft pick.

"
"

Good analysis, we also picked up Kevin Ogletree who was rated higher than Manuel Johnson and who was also at UVA with John Garrett. That’s right coach John Garrett at the time worked with Kevin Ogletree. If you count Ogletree we got 8 out of the top 134 players from a list that CBS Sportline published, no other team can say that.
Cavaliers wide receiver Kevin Ogletree, who passed up his final season of college eligibility after recording a team-high 58 receptions, was not selected. Chicago-based agent Joe Flanagan said Sunday night that Ogletree had accepted a free-agent offer from the Cowboys. Asked for his reaction to Ogletree not being drafted, Flanagan said, "You know what? I don't have any comment now about anything." It was the second time in five years that a prominent UV underclassmen had made himself available for the NFL Draft and not been chosen. Linebacker Kai Parham went that route after making first-team All-ACC in 2005 and never played professionally.

Here are some more video podcasts to view Ogletree and form your own views.

"http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f2ec58"


"http://www.virginiasportstv.com/inde...&v=1785&f=.mov"

P.S. dont forget ogletree with be on ktbb.com at 5:30 today in an interview

 

[texbumthelife]

In any case, he has yet to show that he plays as fast as he times. He has always been known as a good route runner though.

Maybe your eyes are slow or something but he has consistently been behind his defender. That is a mark of good routes, quickness and speed.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

6' is bordering on small for an NFL WR.

he's closer to 6'1"

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Thanks for the link. I listened to the radio interview between Irvin and Ogletree.

That was a very good, candid interview. Ogletree admits he wasn't the greatest practice player and may have taken it for granted that because he was the man among receivers he may not have pushed himself at UVA. But now he's rededicated himself. I can accept and believe that. A lot of players hate practicing, particularly if you've been playing football a long time.

I also know it's a reality that coaches sometimes care more about their system than tailoring their system to the players.

I see that even at the community level where some of the coaches of teams in our community football league have tremendous talent but the coaches keep trying to force their system. It's sad, but it happens.

Be that as it may, I'm excited about Ogletree. Kid is well-spoken too.

racist.

 

[BAT]

Maybe your eyes are slow or something but he has consistently been behind his defender. That is a mark of good routes, quickness and speed.

Maybe you should try reading from left to right. I did not say he was not fast, I said he does not play as fast as he times. You do know he ran a 4.36 right? How many times have you seen Ogletree streaking down the field w/a defender no where to be seen?

Again, Ogletree is fast, he just has yet to display 4.3 fast, on the field.

 

[texbumthelife]

racist.

against professional athletes?

 

[texbumthelife]

Maybe you should try reading from left to right. I did not say he was not fast, I said he does not play as fast as he times. You do know he ran a 4.36 right? How many times have you seen Ogletree streaking down the field w/a defender no where to be seen?

Again, Ogletree is fast, he just has yet to display 4.3 fast, on the field.

eh, first of all I wasn't being totally serious with the eyes comment. I don't think eyes move at different speeds. It was sarcasm. I guess I should have put a few smilies.

Second of all, I haven't seen more than a handful of receivers do that in my lifetime. When it did happen, it was generally a result of poor defense, not the speed of the wide receiver. Speed can be exhibited on short/intermediate routes as well as deep routes. He has regularly been behind, beyond defenders and been tackled from behind. I think he has looked like one of the fastest players on the field each time I have seen him.

 

[BAT]

eh, first of all I wasn't being totally serious with the eyes comment. I don't think eyes move at different speeds. It was sarcasm. I guess I should have put a few smilies.

Second of all, I haven't seen more than a handful of receivers do that in my lifetime. When it did happen, it was generally a result of poor defense, not the speed of the wide receiver. Speed can be exhibited on short/intermediate routes as well as deep routes.

Speed in short or intermediate routes is usually characterized as quickness. Long speed and big seperation maybe caused by poor defense, but the guys who need to be bracketted (or force teams to play zone) are still evident in the league. There are guys who run crazy 40's but are not big play guys, on the field. A good example is our Roy, who ran low 4.4's, but even he calls himself a possession guy (another is everyone's fav screw up Matt Jones, who also ran a 4.3 but does not play like it). A guy w/4.3 speed is usually the teams' home run hitter, stretch the field - big play guy. There was a guy named Bob Hayes who kinda made it famous. Randy Moss still does it w/some regularity. So does Steve Smith, with some new kids like DeSean and Percy Harvin waiting in the wings. If Hester, Berrian, Ginn or Troy Williamson had any hands at all, they'd be big play WRs too.

Ogletree has yet to show he is this type of receiver. But I'm a fan (not only of the Cowboys but of Ogletree) so I only point it out, I am not disparaging or rooting against him at all.

 

[texbumthelife]

First of all, I don't know if you're being condescending as hell, or just sarcastic so I will default to sarcastic (I understand how wide receivers are used and certainly know who Bob Hayes is. This has nothing to do with our discussion, which I will illustrate).

There are guys who run crazy 40's but are not big play guys, on the field. A good example is our Roy, who ran low 4.4's, but even he calls himself a possession guy (another is everyone's fav screw up Matt Jones, who also ran a 4.3 but does not play like it). A guy w/4.3 speed is usually the teams' home run hitter, stretch the field - big play guy. There was a guy named Bob Hayes who kinda made it famous. Randy Moss still does it w/some regularity. So does Steve Smith, with some new kids like DeSean and Percy Harvin waiting in the wings. If Hester, Berrian, Ginn or Troy Williamson had any hands at all, they'd be big play WRs too.

Whether or not a guy is a "big play guy" on the field has no bearing on whether or not he showcases his speed. Just as often, the guys with home-run speed are used as decoys. Yes, most teams consider their speed receivers to be their home-run threats, but this doesn't mean those same players don't showcase their speed and quickness when not breaking big plays.

To use one of your examples, Steve Smith gets a consistent 10 yards on screen plays, even when he doesn't take it the distance. It is so effective, in fact, they use is as a pseudo running play. He does this because of his quickness and his speed. Bob Hayes was even used as a decoy much of the time. He also caught a great deal of intermediate passes between 80 yard, track meet receptions.

I am not discussing with you the implications and uses of a speed receiver on the field, which is where you seem to be trying to direct this. I simply was pointing out that I think Ogletree has showcased his speed with regularity. Though he hasn't always made the big play or hit a home run, when I have seen him, even away from the play, he has always had separation - be it in a pre-season game or in practice. He certainly seems faster than anyone else on the field from what I have seen. In the NFL, this generally means you run low to sub 4.4.

Please, continue to edumacate me on the history and development of the speed threat in the NFL though.

 

[DallasDomination]

First of all, I don't know if you're being condescending as hell, or just sarcastic so I will default to sarcastic (I understand how wide receivers are used and certainly know who Bob Hayes is. This has nothing to do with our discussion, which I will illustrate).



Whether or not a guy is a "big play guy" on the field has no bearing on whether or not he showcases his speed. Just as often, the guys with home-run speed are used as decoys. Yes, most teams consider their speed receivers to be their home-run threats, but this doesn't mean those same players don't showcase their speed and quickness when not breaking big plays.

To use one of your examples, Steve Smith gets a consistent 10 yards on screen plays, even when he doesn't take it the distance. It is so effective, in fact, they use is as a pseudo running play. He does this because of his quickness and his speed. Bob Hayes was even used as a decoy much of the time. He also caught a great deal of intermediate passes between 80 yard, track meet receptions.

I am not discussing with you the implications and uses of a speed receiver on the field, which is where you seem to be trying to direct this. I simply was pointing out that I think Ogletree has showcased his speed with regularity. Though he hasn't always made the big play or hit a home run, when I have seen him, even away from the play, he has always had separation - be it in a pre-season game or in practice. He certainly seems faster than anyone else on the field from what I have seen. In the NFL, this generally means you run low to sub 4.4.

Please, continue to edumacate me on the history and development of the speed threat in the NFL though.

OUCH!...

 

[speedkilz88]

Speed in short or intermediate routes is usually characterized as quickness. Long speed and big seperation maybe caused by poor defense, but the guys who need to be bracketted (or force teams to play zone) are still evident in the league. There are guys who run crazy 40's but are not big play guys, on the field. A good example is our Roy, who ran low 4.4's, but even he calls himself a possession guy (another is everyone's fav screw up Matt Jones, who also ran a 4.3 but does not play like it). A guy w/4.3 speed is usually the teams' home run hitter, stretch the field - big play guy. There was a guy named Bob Hayes who kinda made it famous. Randy Moss still does it w/some regularity. So does Steve Smith, with some new kids like DeSean and Percy Harvin waiting in the wings. If Hester, Berrian, Ginn or Troy Williamson had any hands at all, they'd be big play WRs too.

Ogletree has yet to show he is this type of receiver. But I'm a fan (not only of the Cowboys but of Ogletree) so I only point it out, I am not disparaging or rooting against him at all.

Roy didn't mean it the way you took it. He has complained about the new Madden game giving him too low of a number on his speed.

 

[texbumthelife]

Roy didn't mean it the way you took it. He has complained about the new Madden game giving him too low of a number on his speed.

He is slow as dirt on Madden, but he kills press-coverage and catches everything. If life emulates Madden I will be happy.

 

[BAT]

First of all I was reacting to your sarcasm or were you being serious when you said that you hadn't seen a WR who could run away from defenders?

First of all, I don't know if you're being condescending as hell, or just sarcastic so I will default to sarcastic (I understand how wide receivers are used and certainly know who Bob Hayes is. This has nothing to do with our discussion, which I will illustrate).



Whether or not a guy is a "big play guy" on the field has no bearing on whether or not he showcases his speed. Just as often, the guys with home-run speed are used as decoys. Yes, most teams consider their speed receivers to be their home-run threats, but this doesn't mean those same players don't showcase their speed and quickness when not breaking big plays.

To use one of your examples, Steve Smith gets a consistent 10 yards on screen plays, even when he doesn't take it the distance. It is so effective, in fact, they use is as a pseudo running play. He does this because of his quickness and his speed. Bob Hayes was even used as a decoy much of the time. He also caught a great deal of intermediate passes between 80 yard, track meet receptions.

I am not discussing with you the implications and uses of a speed receiver on the field, which is where you seem to be trying to direct this. I simply was pointing out that I think Ogletree has showcased his speed with regularity. Though he hasn't always made the big play or hit a home run, when I have seen him, even away from the play, he has always had separation - be it in a pre-season game or in practice. He certainly seems faster than anyone else on the field from what I have seen. In the NFL, this generally means you run low to sub 4.4.

Please, continue to edumacate me on the history and development of the speed threat in the NFL though.

As for edumacating you, I give. I made one comment "he does not play to his timed speed" that you took to mean "he is not fast". I said he was fast, but does not play to his timed 40. Then you tried to explain the fine differences on what fast means to YOU. Notice you don't consider it patronizing when YOU are trying to give the lesson.

Ridiculous. It was you who made a mountain of a mole hill, you who decided to argue jackshat.

Should I post some scouts analyses that have them basically saying the same thing? Would that edumacate you enough about what I meant?

 

[BAT]

I'm going to do this once, next time do your own research. I am sure your eyes saw differently from the following scouts. Maybe you can discuss the varieties and vagaries of "fast" with these fellows.

From nfl.com

Negatives: Lacks prototype speed to challenge defenders over the top. Marginal agility in the open field to create yards after the catch. Might struggle to generate separation against NFL cornerbacks. Lacks elite athleticism and has a tendency to round off his routes. Requires a medical check; torn ACL in March of 2007 that required surgery. Also had arthroscopic surgery on his wrist following the 2006 season.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/kevin-ogletree?id=81857#player-profile-tab-set-1layer-profile-tab-analysis

From Scott Wright

Isn't a vertical threat ....

http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/wr/Kevin-Ogletree.php

From Sports Illustrated

Ogletree is a solid college receiver with no single outstanding trait to his game.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2009/draft/players/46879.html

 

[texbumthelife]

First of all I was reacting to your sarcasm or were you being serious when you said that you hadn't seen a WR who could run away from defenders?

Actually, I said

I haven't seen more than a handful of receivers do that in my lifetime

in response to you saying

How many times have you seen Ogletree streaking down the field w/a defender no where to be seen?

Seeing a receiver who can run away from defenders and seeing a wide receiver streaking down field with a defender nowhere to be seen are two different things. I am sure you would agree.

As for edumacating you, I give. I made one comment "he does not play to his timed speed" that you took to mean "he is not fast". I said he was fast, but does not play to his timed 40. Then you tried to explain the fine differences on what fast means to YOU. Notice you don't consider it patronizing when YOU are trying to give the lesson.

Wrong, again. You said

In any case, he has yet to show that he plays as fast as he times.

which I took to mean

In any case, he has yet to show that he plays as fast as he times.

which I responded to with

Maybe your eyes are slow or something but he has consistently been behind his defender.

At no point did I even allude to you not thinking he was fast. I simply stated I had seen him play up to that speed plenty.

Lacks prototype speed to challenge defenders over the top.

Doesn't argue against any thing I said. I said, and repeated, speed isn't measured only on vertical ability. Vertical threats generally are taller and longer as well as fast. Steve Smith is a burner but isn't much of a deep ball threat.

Isn't a vertical threat ....

Doesn't argue against any thing I said. I said, and repeated, speed isn't measured only on vertical ability. Vertical threats generally are taller and longer as well as fast. Steve Smith is a burner but isn't much of a deep ball threat.

Ogletree is a solid college receiver with no single outstanding trait to his game.

Isn't even really significant to the conversation.

You really did nothing with your scout quotes other than solidify my original stance - he has shown me his speed without streaking down the field like he was wearing rocket boots as defenders stood in awe with gaping jaws and Usain Bolt exploding with jealousy.

I'm going to do this once, next time do your own research. I am sure your eyes saw differently from the following scouts. Maybe you can discuss the varieties and vagaries of "fast" with these fellows.

I didn't request, or need, your research. I went to training camp. I saw all the preseason games. I am speaking from experience.

Simply put, as I have observed in training camp (in person) and in games, he has exhibited a level of speed on the field no one seemed to match. I believe he has played at his timed speed, albeit not while embarrassing NFL defenses as a raw rookie.

As a frame of reference, watching him run after or before Miles Austin in drills, or in game, is like watching an all-american college sprinter and an Olympic champion. Both are fast, no doubt, but those extra tenths of a second show.

I didn't intend for this to become a pissing contest, but a good debate is always fun.

 

[JoeyBones31]

bye bye Stanback is all I can say !!

 

[BAT]

So if I said he hasn't proved to be a "vertical threat" the point would be moot? Was this really about semantics?? You assigning EXTREME definitions of your own devise to my words?


Way to slice that salami.


By the way, lacks prototype speed to challenge defenders over the top does NOT refer to height or length. It is all about speed to get behind defenders. Speed. Not height. Not length. S P E E D. You see I can repeat myself and stubbornly hold fast to my arguments as well. Only, I am literally interpreting the scout's words, not fastening my own definitions of the reality as you see it.

The sad fact is I have always been an Ogletree supporter, I wanted him instead of Manny Johnson and was thrilled when he was signed as an UDFA, but this discussion is painting me as the hater. Very strange talking to you.

 

[texbumthelife]

You:

In any case, he has yet to show that he plays as fast as he times.

Me:

Simply put, as I have observed in training camp (in person) and in games, he has exhibited a level of speed on the field no one seemed to match. I believe he has played at his timed speed

The difference seems to be you expect big stretch the field plays out of a guy in order to show his speed. I believe a guy can exhibit his speed in the short/intermediate game as well. No redefining at all, just simply different perceptions. There is no question, the guy has speed.

It seems you think I was attacking your fandom and took exception when that wasn't the case at all. I don't perceive you as a hater, just someone I disagree with on this subject. A subject that is a difference of perception, not fact. It was not my intention, in my original post to call you out, just to say my opinion. Apparently, my sarcasm came across as more inflammatory than playfully sarcastic.

I understand your position and hope you have come to understand mine, even if we still disagree.

 

[texbumthelife]

By the way, lacks prototype speed to challenge defenders over the top does NOT refer to height or length. It is all about speed to get behind defenders. Speed. Not height. Not length. S P E E D. You see I can repeat myself and stubbornly hold fast to my arguments as well. Only, I am literally interpreting the scout's words, not fastening my own definitions of the reality as you see it.

Right, however speed is also not the lone quality for a "deep threat" just like making plays down field isn't the only thing a speed receiver can do.

Roy Williams isnt fast by any means, but is a tremendous deep threat because of his size, length and hands.

Steve Smith is lights out fast but isn't much of a deep threat.

Devin Hester?

I am not fastening my own definitions to anything. If so, please quote where I "defined" speed in my own terms.