Oh Silver Bear

[ThatsmyQB]

there was a couple of times last season when Spencer Ware and Ellis was on the field at the same time....you just have to mix it up a little bit.

A COUPLE of times doesn't JUSTIFY using your top pick in the draft on a guy where you already have 2 studs locked up for a long time when you have other needs to fill.

 

[ThatsmyQB]

I respectfully disagree with your comparison. Burnett is more of a 4-3 OLB, which is why he plays in nickel situations for us. Kindle is an attack player who plays an elephant-type position for Texas, which should be a seamless transition to 3-4 OLB in the NFL.

We are talking about him moving INSIDE since we have our O.L.B.'s in place already, so sure he would make a seamless transition at O.L.B., but we are discussing him being drafted by us to play I.L.B., that's the debate we're talkin about!
Oh, and Burnett plays in the nickle cause he is our best COVER L.B. is all!

 

[Biggems]

We are talking about him moving INSIDE since we have our O.L.B.'s in place already, so sure he would make a seamless transition at O.L.B., but we are discussing him being drafted by us to play I.L.B., that's the debate we're talkin about!
Oh, and Burnett plays in the nickle cause he is our best COVER L.B. is all!

what is your problem man.....seriously. we have 2 OLBs. Ellis is probably gone. We need depth. Spencer isnt exactly durable. I dont care if our first two picks go to OLB, if those two guys are able to give us great depth and improve our pass rush.

 

[ThatsmyQB]

what is your problem man.....seriously. we have 2 OLBs. Ellis is probably gone. We need depth. Spencer isnt exactly durable. I dont care if our first two picks go to OLB, if those two guys are able to give us great depth and improve our pass rush.

Well I'm glad you're not out our G.M. then, it's simple, there's the SALARY CAP and there's depth you need for sure, but when you have PRESSING NEEEDS at positions that need STARTERS, why draft a guy KNOWING he will only be a BACKUP when you need to draft guys who can come in and START????
I don't mind drafting for DEPTH, but that's what your later roudn picks are for, you do NOT, I REPEAT, you do NOT DRAFT a guy with your TOP PICK where you already have your starters (TWO FORMER 1st rOUND PICKS MIND YOU) in place for years to come, that's just ******** logic and that kind of thinking makes you the RAIDERS of the NFL!

 

[silverbear]

I respectfully disagree with your comparison. Burnett is more of a 4-3 OLB, which is why he plays in nickel situations for us. Kindle is an attack player who plays an elephant-type position for Texas, which should be a seamless transition to 3-4 OLB in the NFL. Kindle is an explosive athlete who has size and the frame to get bigger. Most Longhorn insiders think he probably leaves this season if he's a first-day pick, but he would be helped tremendously by returning; he's a first-rounder in 2010 if he comes back.

I think you misunderstood me, perhaps because I didn't explain myself well... lemme try again...

Yes, Kindle is playing an "elephant-type position" for UT, and if he was to get bigger, he might be able to handle that role in the NFL... but he's really not racking up the impressive sack totals to suggest he'd be exceptional in that role at the next level...

But I believe, based on his speed and agility, that he can easily learn to handle the cover responsibilities of a weakside ILB... I think his skillset would translate well to that position in the NFL...

And the scouting report on Burnett coming out of college is very similar to the one you're giving us about Kindle now... so I think he'd be better off NOT bulking up, and trying his hand at weakside ILB in a 3-4 scheme...

 

[wick]

I think you misunderstood me, perhaps because I didn't explain myself well... lemme try again...

Yes, Kindle is playing an "elephant-type position" for UT, and if he was to get bigger, he might be able to handle that role in the NFL... but he's really not racking up the impressive sack totals to suggest he'd be exceptional in that role at the next level...

But I believe, based on his speed and agility, that he can easily learn to handle the cover responsibilities of a weakside ILB... I think his skillset would translate well to that position in the NFL...

And the scouting report on Burnett coming out of college is very similar to the one you're giving us about Kindle now... so I think he'd be better off NOT bulking up, and trying his hand at weakside ILB in a 3-4 scheme...

A few points:

1. Kindle has 9.0 sacks in 12 games this season even though this is his first year playing in a pass rush capacity. More impressively, his sacks have come primarily against good competition; 7.0 of his sacks have come in Texas' eight conference games, including one sack each in the Oklahoma, Missouri, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech games. If that doesn't impress you, I submit that you really haven't watched him this season.

2. Kindle struggles when asked to cover, so your assertion that he'd slide into such a role in the NFL is a huge leap of faith that is not grounded in on-field results. Kindle is at his best when attacking off the edge. In my opinion, he's a 3-4 OLB all the way.

3. Burnett was viewed as a poor man's Derrick Johnson, which is to say that he was considered a fast but undersized 4-3 OLB. There's simply no comparison between Burnett and Kindle in terms of the style of their play.

 

[silverbear]

A few points:

1. Kindle has 9.0 sacks in 12 games this season even though this is his first year playing in a pass rush capacity. More impressively, his sacks have come primarily against good competition; 7.0 of his sacks have come in Texas' eight conference games, including one sack each in the Oklahoma, Missouri, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech games. If that doesn't impress you, I submit that you really haven't watched him this season.

I've seen every game that has been on TV in my neck of the woods, which is about a half dozen of 'em... and no, 9 sacks in 12 games doesn't suggest to me that he'll be especially effective as a pass rusher at the next level... especially not when he had a half sack and five pressures in 19 career games before this season...

2. Kindle struggles when asked to cover, so your assertion that he'd slide into such a role in the NFL is a huge leap of faith that is not grounded in on-field results. Kindle is at his best when attacking off the edge. In my opinion, he's a 3-4 OLB all the way.

IMO, you're wrong... first off, he's already bulked up about 15 pounds from when he came to Austin, so it's probably unrealistic to expect him to get a whole lot bigger, and under 240 pounds is a little light for a 3-4 OLB...

Adding those 15 pounds has cost him right at a tenth of a second on his 40 time from when he came into college as a RB/LB recruit, so you can't project that he'd retain all of his speed if he added more bulk...

Finally, I'll note that he hasn't really been asked to cover that much, so it's hard for you to project that he wouldn't be able to handle those responsibilities if asked...

3. Burnett was viewed as a poor man's Derrick Johnson, which is to say that he was considered a fast but undersized 4-3 OLB. There's simply no comparison between Burnett and Kindle in terms of the style of their play.

And when Kindle entered college, some scouts projected him to safety, just like Burnett was when he went to Tennessee... sure sounds like the kind of guy who has some potential as a cover LB...

Note also that Burnett was listed at 6-3, 238 pounds when he came out of college, while Kindle is currently listed at 6-4, 238 pounds...

So, let's see-- Kevin Burnett was a 6-3, 238 pounds OLB who was a safety prospect coming out high school, and ran a sub-4.6 40... Sergio Kindle is a 6-4, 238 pound OLB who some scouts said might project to safety in college, and runs a sub-4.6 40...

Gee, I wonder what EVER might have possessed me to suggest the two have similar skillsets??

Yes, the two were used a bit differently in college, but again, I'm trying to project where Kindle might have the most success in the NFL... you think he can bulk up 10-15 pounds and retain his speed, making him a 3-4 OLB, while I wonder if he can keep his speed edge at the higher weight, and so with his pure speed and athleticism I project him to a weakside ILB in the 3-4...

Note that I agreed at the outset with the suggestion that the Horns were using him in an "elephant" role, I just have some doubts that he could be successful in that role in the NFL...

And FWIW, I'm a huge Horns fan... have been ever since I watched them play Roger Staubach's Navy team in the Cotton Bowl, some 45 years ago...

 

[wick]

I've seen every game that has been on TV in my neck of the woods, which is about a half dozen of 'em... and no, 9 sacks in 12 games doesn't suggest to me that he'll be especially effective as a pass rusher at the next level... especially not when he had a half sack and five pressures in 19 career games before this season...

As mentioned previously, Kindle was not employed as a pass rusher until this season. What specific criteria are you looking at to determine that he's not done enough to make you think he'll be a top pass rusher at the next level?

IMO, you're wrong... first off, he's already bulked up about 15 pounds from when he came to Austin, so it's probably unrealistic to expect him to get a whole lot bigger, and under 240 pounds is a little light for a 3-4 OLB...

Adding those 15 pounds has cost him right at a tenth of a second on his 40 time from when he came into college as a RB/LB recruit, so you can't project that he'd retain all of his speed if he added more bulk...

You have no idea how fast he was as a freshman or how fast he is now. Nobody will know until he participates in a Combine or pro day. Anyone who looks at Kindle knows he has the frame to handle more weight.

Finally, I'll note that he hasn't really been asked to cover that much, so it's hard for you to project that he wouldn't be able to handle those responsibilities if asked...

Untrue. Kindle was a traditional dual-responsibility LB until this year and has struggled badly against the pass. This is commonly known among Longhorn observers. He is now used as a pass rusher, which plays to his strength.

And when Kindle entered college, some scouts projected him to safety, just like Burnett was when he went to Tennessee... sure sounds like the kind of guy who has some potential as a cover LB...

I followed Kindle's recruitment from the time he was a junior in high school. Absolutely nobody projected him as a safety. He was primarily considered a LB or possibly DE, though Kindle was a great RB in high school and some thought he might stick there at the next level.

Note also that Burnett was listed at 6-3, 238 pounds when he came out of college, while Kindle is currently listed at 6-4, 238 pounds...

So, let's see-- Kevin Burnett was a 6-3, 238 pounds OLB who was a safety prospect coming out high school, and ran a sub-4.6 40... Sergio Kindle is a 6-4, 238 pound OLB who some scouts said might project to safety in college, and runs a sub-4.6 40...

We've established that you were wrong about Kindle being projected as a safety, leaving just a superficial height/weight comparison to Burnett. If you'd like to revise your argument to suggest that Kindle and Burnett bear a passing resemblance based on those criteria, I won't fight you.

Yes, the two were used a bit differently in college, but again, I'm trying to project where Kindle might have the most success in the NFL... you think he can bulk up 10-15 pounds and retain his speed, making him a 3-4 OLB, while I wonder if he can keep his speed edge at the higher weight, and so with his pure speed and athleticism I project him to a weakside ILB in the 3-4...

Your assessment is only possible if you completely ignore what Kindle has shown on the field and make a leap of faith based on a height/weight comparison to one player currently on Dallas' roster.

 

[silverbear]

I followed Kindle's recruitment from the time he was a junior in high school. Absolutely nobody projected him as a safety. He was primarily considered a LB or possibly DE, though Kindle was a great RB in high school and some thought he might stick there at the next level.

You know, it's really tiresome, talking to somebody who seems to be determined to be a jerk... so I'm fixin' to end this dialogue, but first, just for you:

http://www.projo.com/sharedcontent/...preview/stories/082505dnhsclede.16882361.html

Kindle knows he'll have to focus on one position in college. There are plenty of options; he's been projected as a safety, defensive end and tight end in addition to the positions he already plays.

Guess you didn't follow his recruitment as closely as you thought... guess you don't know as much as you thought you did; Tim McMahon says you're full of crap...

Buh-bye...

 

[touchstone]

Wick is 100% correct on Kindle's history-and Ilove Kindle'splay, but he coudn't stay on the field prior to this year becasue he was consistenlty very poor coverage and had poor lateral movement at LB,,,and this is on the college level..He is excellent at one thing-pass rushing. Projecting him at anything outside of a DE (undersized) or a pass rushing 3-4 OLB in the NFL is bordeline laughable. He'll play quarterback about the same time he plays safety.

 

[wick]

You know, it's really tiresome, talking to somebody who seems to be determined to be a jerk... so I'm fixin' to end this dialogue, but first, just for you:

http://www.projo.com/sharedcontent/...preview/stories/082505dnhsclede.16882361.html



Guess you didn't follow his recruitment as closely as you thought... guess you don't know as much as you thought you did; Tim McMahon says you're full of crap...

Buh-bye...

I'm not sure how to put this delicately, but Tim MacMahon knows as much about recruiting as my doormat. Nobody seriously considered Kindle a safety. In fact, the article even states that Kindle was given two options at Texas: linebacker and running back.