Okay, so tomorrow does Irvin get in?

[bbgun]

It's a very weak field this year, so if he doesn't get in, you'll know it's personal.

 

[Biggems]

If I was voting I would pick the following

Commissioner Paul Tagliabue
OL Bruce Matthews
OL Gene Hickerson
WR Michael Irvin
CB Roger Wehrli
TE Charlie Sanders


That would be my class of 2007

 

[Rack]

I'm gonna say that not only does Irvin not get in tomorrow, but another LESS deserving WR will get voted in... Andre Reed.


So the ONLY "Elite" WR of his time won't make it, but one that was "very good" from the SAME era will make it.

 

[AbeBeta]

It's a very weak field this year, so if he doesn't get in, you'll know it's personal.

Or that he didn't play long enough.

 

[bbgun]

Or that he didn't play long enough.

You're the only one to suggest that he might not get in based on stats alone. That's a new one to me.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Michael Irvin should have got in last year and the year before that!

 

[calico]

He will get snubbed again and we will have to hear about how next year is "definitely Irvin's year" like we have for the past 2.

I can understand that they did not want 3 Cowboys going in last year, but if he does not make it this year, then it is a joke.

 

[AbeBeta]

You're the only one to suggest that he might not get in based on stats alone. That's a new one to me.

I've made this argument previously. Then again, you've spent a lot of time banned so you might have missed it.

So here goes.

Irvin was great from 91 to 95 -- one of the best in the league. A stretch like that, combined with a career of productivity gets you in the hall. 88 had a short-ish. Another year or two of 900-1000 yard seasons, and he's got elite #s.

5 good years isn't going to get you into the hall unless you were head and shoulders dominant - and Mike wasn't (statistically at least) - he led the league in one category (yards) once in that period.

Mike had a great career - but as far as hall candidates go, he's borderline - he was the emotional leader of the 3 SB teams, yes -- I feel he should be in the Hall based on that - but some see him as the Heart and Soul of all the bad stuff the team became -- and that's tough to overcome for a borderline candidate.

 

[bbgun]

I've made this argument previously. Then again, you've spent a lot of time banned so you might have missed it.

Yes, much like you've somehow managed to miss the entrenched system of race-based quotas and preferences in the name reverse discrimination, oops, "affirmative action." Your ignorance would be amusing were it not so appalling.

So here goes.

Irvin was great from 91 to 95 -- one of the best in the league. A stretch like that, combined with a career of productivity gets you in the hall. 88 had a short-ish. Another year or two of 900-1000 yard seasons, and he's got elite #s.

5 good years isn't going to get you into the hall unless you were head and shoulders dominant - and Mike wasn't (statistically at least) - he led the league in one category (yards) once in that period.

Mike had a great career - but as far as hall candidates go, he's borderline - he was the emotional leader of the 3 SB teams, yes -- I feel he should be in the Hall based on that - but some see him as the Heart and Soul of all the bad stuff the team became -- and that's tough to overcome for a borderline candidate.

You omitted his playoff statistics. For years, Lynn Swann was kept out of the Hall because he lacked eye-popping regular season stats. Irvin's got 'em both. Plus, his stats would have been healthier had he not retired early. Nor did he play in a pass-happy offense. If Troy wasn't punished by voters for a lack of outright dominance at his position, neither will Mike.

 

[AbeBeta]

Yes, much like you've somehow managed to miss the entrenched system of race-based quotas and preferences in the name reverse discrimination, oops, "affirmative action." Your ignorance would be amusing were it not so appalling.
.

Way to stay on topic BB! I've spent considerable time explaining various laws. You've clearly spent no time trying to understand the law - you'd prefer rhetoric. It is sad really. The ignorant's last defense is insisting other folks are ignorant. Nice to see you've hit the end of the road.

You omitted his playoff statistics. For years, Lynn Swann was kept out of the Hall because he lacked eye-popping regular season stats. Irvin's got 'em both. Plus, his stats would have been healthier had he not retired early. Nor did he play in a pass-happy offense. If Troy wasn't punished by voters for a lack of outright dominance at his position, neither will Mike.

Actually Mike doesn't have the eye-popping regular season stats. As I mentioned before you can't use Swann - who likely is the worst statistically of all WR in the Hall as a comparison.

Troy wasn't punished for lack of great stats -- then again, Troy didn't get busted with ****** and blow, didn't just get caught again, and doesn't annoy the hell out of HOF voters

 

[burmafrd]

Anyone who does not recognize that Irvin was a top WR- one of the top 3- in the game for most of his career is just plain stupid. Stats are not everything- but Irvins are right at the top of the league. MORE importantly, he shined in the biggest games. THAT is more important then regular stats. But of course someone who refuses to see reality and keeps hiding behind stupid laws put into effect by stupid politicians; or stupid rules put into effect by stupid people; no wonder things like that escape him. By the way- segregation was legal at one time; so was slavery. LEGAL. THE LAW. Does it matter now? Of course not- but some still try and hide.

 

[Woods]

Yes, he gets in.

As for Monk, I don't think so.

 

[kingwhicker]

Should he: absolutely.

Will he: No chance in hell.

 

[CounterTrey]

I think he gets in as Matthews appears to me to be the only "lock" to get in....Irvin has been so close the first two years and this class is not as strong.............to Art Monk, great receiver because he played so long, but Spags brought up a very good point on The Ticket today.........we can look at Art Monk and see his career stats were nice, but think back and pick out particular huge plays he made as compared to Irvin. Everytime they show Cowboys Superbowl highlights you see Irvin making that blocked out twisting TD catch and show Irvin all over the place..........when do they ever show Monk in that light, think about it.

Completely absurd. Not only is it not true but it's competely irrelevant for the simple fact that Monk retired as the record holder in receptions (940), receptions in a season 106, most consecutive games with at least one reception (164) he also has 3 rings and was considered by many of his teammates to be one the key team leaders, if he didn't strut around running his mouth promoting himself like the typical WR of this era does. Even without the complete myth about not making big plays blah blah his stats should have made him a 1st ballot inductee. Jerry Rice and the changing of the rules have since eclipsed those records but the simple fact is Monk retired as the most prolific player at his position at the time. If that aint Hall worthy, nothing is.

As for the premise layed down by Bayless....Oh Please...

Just let the evidence speak for itself: http://www.monk4thehall.com/

 

[Deputy493]

Completely absurd. Not only is it not true but it's competely irrelevant for the simple fact that Monk retired as the record holder in receptions (940), receptions in a season 106, most consecutive games with at least one reception (164) he also has 3 rings and was considered by many of his teammates to be one the key team leaders, if he didn't strut around running his mouth promoting himself like the typical WR of this era does. Even without the complete myth about not making big plays blah blah his stats should have made him a 1st ballot inductee. Jerry Rice and the changing of the rules have since eclipsed those records but the simple fact is Monk retired as the most prolific player at his position at the time. If that aint Hall worthy, nothing is.

As for the premise layed down by Bayless....Oh Please...

Just let the evidence speak for itself: http://www.monk4thehall.com/

In all of your rambling you proved my point. While his overall stats are impressive, you did not name one play, one instance, one championship performance by Art Monk that he is well known for.........as I said, when you see Irvin on Cowboys highlights you see him all over the place making plays in Superbowls and Irvin has 6 100 + yard receiving games in the post season, 2nd behind only Rice......how often do you see Monk making huge plays in the Skins Superbowls or the post season?............I did not say Monk was not hall worthy, but the point Spags made (I have no clue where you got Bayless from) is very valid.........Monk very nice career, good receiver with good career stats, but how many teams game planned to stop Art Monk as compared to how many teams game planned to try and take Irvin out......you can ramble and complain all you want, but you proved my point.

You say some players on his teams said he was one of their leaders, whereas everyone simply knows Irvin was the emotional leader of the team that won 3 Superbowls in 4 years.

 

[AbeBeta]

Anyone who does not recognize that Irvin was a top WR- one of the top 3- in the game for most of his career is just plain stupid. Stats are not everything- but Irvins are right at the top of the league. MORE importantly, he shined in the biggest games. THAT is more important then regular stats. But of course someone who refuses to see reality and keeps hiding behind stupid laws put into effect by stupid politicians; or stupid rules put into effect by stupid people; no wonder things like that escape him. By the way- segregation was legal at one time; so was slavery. LEGAL. THE LAW. Does it matter now? Of course not- but some still try and hide.

A. Irvin does have great credentials -- my argument was that he just didn't have them for long enough - also, the fact that other receivers at the time were out-statisticing him hurts because that a major part of the record on which voters depend for decisions.

B. Keep your opinions in the thread in which they would be relevant. That has nothing to do with the HoF thread. You couldn't formulate a good argument in the Rooney thread so you bring weak crap here? Nice.