Oline has allowed 6 sacks so far in practice today

[ABQCOWBOY]

Hate to interrupt a good rant, but you're going to be thin at OG when your two starting OGs go down from the start of camp. If we'd replaced Livings and Bernardeau with two All Pro guards, and those guards were hurt, we'd be in the same boat we're in now.

And we haven't moved Costa into the lineup and slid Frederick over yet, either. We do have position flexibility we consciously put in place in case we need it.

I'll also throw out that I'm certain we didn't keep the OGs we've got on the roster because 'Jerry doesn't like to give up on players.' We went out and got the players Garrett and Callahan thought were a good system fit, and then they got hurt; both of them. Two training camps in a row. We're developing talent behind them, but, like every other team in the league, we don't go three-deep at every OL position.

That's fair but I think you also have to acknowledge the fact that had we signed to All Pro Guards (or even two healthy Guards), the chances of them being out due to injuries such as the one Livings has would be far less likely.

 

[Idgit]

That's fair but I think you also have to acknowledge the fact that had we signed to All Pro Guards (or even two healthy Guards), the chances of them being out due to injuries such as the one Livings has would be far less likely.

How so? Did Livings have a particular history of knee problems before we signed him? I don't recall.
However you look at it, signing two value VFAs in the offseason two seasons ago, and having both miss most of the starts of the subsequent two camps and having both need at least one surgery during that time is a fairly bum deal. Neither Mack nor Livings may have been great players for us, but just the consistency factor alone would have helped out out significantly at this point, going into season two of the new OL plan. Instead, we're combing the waiver wire for a replacement for a team that's obviously made a conscious effort to bring in and develop younger healthy players where older options have been available.

On a related side note, how little must they think of Brandon Moore that he's not being mentioned in Dallas at this point?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

How so? Did Livings have a particular history of knee problems before we signed him? I don't recall.
However you look at it, signing two value VFAs in the offseason two seasons ago, and having both miss most of the starts of the subsequent two camps and having both need at least one surgery during that time is a fairly bum deal. Neither Mack nor Livings may have been great players for us, but just the consistency factor alone would have helped out out significantly at this point, going into season two of the new OL plan. Instead, we're combing the waiver wire for a replacement for a team that's obviously made a conscious effort to bring in and develop younger healthy players where older options have been available.

On a related side note, how little must they think of Brandon Moore that he's not being mentioned in Dallas at this point?

He did have an injury history but I don't know if it was related to his knees or not. That said, he has been a bit Chronic here with two surgeries in 6 months and 3 injuries in the space of a year.

I don't know what to think of Brandon Moore. I saw it reported that he was retiring but then I saw a piece that said he was not retiring but wanted to play for too much money so perhaps that's why, IDK?

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Panthers released Geoff Hangartner which comes as a surprise to his OL teammates.

PFF ranked their line 27th and here is what they had to say:

27. Carolina Panthers (9)

PB – 27th, RB – 23rd, PEN – 14th

Stud: As is often the case, it’s the ever reliable Jordan Gross (+16.4) who continues to get the job done, even if his performance in Week 17 was the worst we’ve ever seen from him. He may never be an elite tackle, but at least he’s more than a one-tricky pony.

Dud: There was a close competition but ultimately the inability of Geoff Hangartner (-14.5) to get any push in the run game meant he was the way to go.

Summary: The Panthers haven’t been shy about investing draft picks on the line, but with the injury to Ryan Kalil this year it fell apart. Amini Silatolu looked every bit the rookie, while Byron Bell isn’t good enough, often enough, to be a starter in this league yet.


For the record, Dallas was 22

22. Dallas Cowboys (15)

PB – 26th, RB – 8th, PEN – 32nd

Stud: Never let us say we can’t be wrong. Nate Livings (+11.3) had his most consistent year as a pro in Dallas, making a mark with his run blocking.

Dud: It may be time to admit that signing Doug Free (-10.1) long-term just hasn’t worked out. There were too many games where he was taken to the woodshed by explosive defensive ends.

Summary: The Cowboys have put some money into their line recently, but the return just wasn’t there in 2012. Tyron Smith had an at times awkward first year at left tackle, while Mackenzy Bernadeau gave up too much pressure for an interior linemen. There is talent here, but like a lot of spots in Dallas you don’t always see it.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Yeah, I don't see the guard from Carolina being some kind of improvement. At this point you would love to see someone push for a starting spot but the more important thing is filling our the 2nd and 3rd units for preseason games... And I don't think you would drop 1.5 mil or whatever on this guy to do that. I don't think he beats out Leary or Bern.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Jordan Gross could be an FA next year. I would not mind looking at him if we could not figure out our OT situation. He can also play Guard. He has said that he didn't think he would play anywhere else but Carolina but I suspect he might consider Dallas. He's from Idaho, played ball in Utah. He's a guy that I think would be a great pickup for us if we could get him.

 

[ufcrules1]

How so? Did Livings have a particular history of knee problems before we signed him? I don't recall.

So you don't recall if he had an injury history but you are quick to point out that if we had some all pro's in the position we would be in the same spot we are in now? Yeah, odds are if we had all pro's or just better players there we would not be in the position we are in now.

 

[ufcrules1]

Eric Winston is still out there too. Who knows what kind of football shape he is in right now though.

 

[tupperware]

You guys must be joking

You guys been under a rock the last 5 years?

Our OLine sucks. It's not hard to tell what's going on

That's what I'm saying. It's like "Oh it's just one day" No it isn't, this has been going on for years. I know the players are different, but it does speak to how serious the Oline situation has been taken over the past several years. We just decided to get serious about it all of a sudden and they started cutting people left and right. Remember when we had one of (Can't remember if it was the oldest) the oldest lines in the league? You can't just make wholesale changes like that and expect it to get better quickly.

I can understand new season optimism but let's not sweep these line problems under a rug like they aren't an issue every year here recently for us.

 

[ufcrules1]

That's what I'm saying. It's like "Oh it's just one day" No it isn't, this has been going on for years. I know the players are different, but it does speak to how serious the Oline situation has been taken over the past several years. We just decided to get serious about it all of a sudden and they started cutting people left and right. Remember when we had one of (Can't remember if it was the oldest) the oldest lines in the league? You can't just make wholesale changes like that and expect it to get better quickly.

I can understand new season optimism but let's not sweep these line problems under a rug like they aren't an issue every year here recently for us.

For the optimists it is just one random day at camp and not that big of a concern and to the pessimists it's been this way for a while and they are seriously worried about the state of the Oline.

 

[tupperware]

For the optimists it is just one random day at camp and not that big of a concern and to the pessimists it's been this way for a while and they are seriously worried about the state of the Oline.

I wouldn't call it pessimistic though. I think it's just being realistic.

 

[Idgit]

So you don't recall if he had an injury history but you are quick to point out that if we had some all pro's in the position we would be in the same spot we are in now? Yeah, odds are if we had all pro's or just better players there we would not be in the position we are in now.

What does that even mean? What I said was that, even if we had a couple of All Pro starters at OG, if they both went down with injuries at the start of camp, along with the two injuries we've had to significant backups, we'd be struggling for bodies like we are right now. The obvious point is that we're in this situation because of the injuries to the starters and not because of the quality of the starters. And yet, it's the quality of the starters that so many less objective posters are still complaining about. Sheesh.

When ABQ subsequently insinuated that other OGs would not be out with injuries, because he's a careful poster, it occurred to me that perhaps there was a history with Livings and an injury history that was more significant than I'd recollected.

So, yes, the thread evolved in a way that it occurred to me that I might have forgotten an injury to our expected starter. And I still think that the problem is that we're missing multiple interior OL players and not that we need to use this thread as another opportunity to brainlessly pile on Jerry Jones for the signings the organization chose to make last offseason, if that's what you were asking.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Haha, I'm sorry, but it's hilarious how you call people who aren't jumping "ostriches," yet dismiss any positive reporting. Fine, I'll be a ostrich, but you are a starving coyote, desperately clinging to any morsel (however unverified or non-contexual) of bad news.

I didn't dismiss the good reporting. I said it was nice to hear, especially coming from Vela. Any irony you detected was unintentional. I *like* good news and welcome more.

 

[Alexander]

Eric Winston is still out there too. Who knows what kind of football shape he is in right now though.

Eric Winston was signed by the Cardinals a few weeks or so ago. They did not have OL injuries but were compelled to sign legitimate veteran competition for their incumbents for some absurd reason.

 

[ufcrules1]

When ABQ subsequently insinuated that other OGs would not be out with injuries, because he's a careful poster, it occurred to me that perhaps there was a history with Livings and an injury history that was more significant than I'd recollected.

Man I don't know what to even say. I was making the point that these guys were never good in the first place, heck their teams fans were shocked we picked them up. Livings for sure was injury prone and as ABQ pointed out, had we had better players to begin with who were not injury prone we may not be talking about this right now at all. I'm not sure why that is so hard to follow?

"Brainlessly" pile on to Jerry? Why do you feel the need to personally attack me? Did I ever do that to you?

 

[ufcrules1]

I wouldn't call it pessimistic though. I think it's just being realistic.

Yes, I know.. I was trying to tread lightly, didn't want to offend anyone.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Yeah, good idea.. lets look for some excuses to explain our horrible Oline.

Hey UFC! How you been man?

Sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but we're actually closed until January here..

We'll see ya then, alrighty bud? Take care, now!

 

[ufcrules1]

Hey UFC! How you been man?

Sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but we're actually closed until January here..

We'll see ya then, alrighty bud? Take care, now!

You talking about our Oline?

 

[Idgit]

Man I don't know what to even say. I was making the point that these guys were never good in the first place, heck their teams fans were shocked we picked them up. Livings for sure was injury prone and as ABQ pointed out, had we had better players to begin with who were not injury prone we may not be talking about this right now at all. I'm not sure why that is so hard to follow?

"Brainlessly" pile on to Jerry? Why do you feel the need to personally attack me? Did I ever do that to you?

I didn't mean to single you out as brainless, and it wasn't a personal attack. I said it was brainless to generally attack Jerry Jones' offseason signings from last year, both of whom are injured, in a thread about the 6 'sacks' given up in last night's practice. And that type of reflexive piling on an unrelated topic is something that's reflexively happened in this thread and in others like it about the OL from the moment those OGs were added to the roster.

To your other point, I guess I just don't see how your unhappiness with those old signings is relevant to this thread, then. Those guys aren't playing right now, and the criticisms of them before their signings weren't that either was injury prone, whatever that means.

 

[ufcrules1]

Alright Idgit we can just agree to disagree like normal. No harm no foul..