Opinion: Color Irving Gone

[Proof]

All irving needs to do to get the big bucks is perform like Lawrence did last year. Suffer thru the indignation of a few million over the next few months and cash in big time next year. The ball's in his court. Earn it.

He doesn’t even need to do that. He’s flashed enough potential that were screwed. He can either flop and a team will likely over pay and we will not compete due to his off year, or he’ll dominate and we won’t be able to afford him.

But hey we will be able to break the bank for Zack

 

[Proof]

Yeah..Coming from this guy:;'-)) ha...man we have parameters & uhhhh let's just say we'll stay within em:;'-)

No stake in this argument but for someone who stated how men should post, you include a lot of smileys lol

 

[Ccijcladac]

No stake in this argument but for someone who stated how men should post, you include a lot of smileys lol

Cuz I'm smiling as I text or write this on here but I put u with them kinfok...yall so brave& influential, it causes a man of my distinction to smile;'-) like that...u Kno cuz of the u know... effect of it all....I'm tickled

 

[Proof]

Cuz I'm smiling as I text or write this on here but I put u with them kinfok...yall so brave& influential, it causes a man of my distinction to smile;'-) like that...u Kno cuz of the u know... effect of it all....I'm tickled

sounds good 'kinfolk'. no clue what you're talking about, but if you like it i love it.

 

[Proof]

Considering what Elliott is going to cost on the open FA market (3 years from now, mind you, when those numbers will sky rocket) he's pretty cheap (relatively speaking). Look at the Bell situation, right now. How much you think Gurley is going to command on an open market. How about Fournette?

yeah, undoubtedly he costs less than he will. but that's besides the point. it's more about what the position league wide costs. There will always be outliers, and he, bell and probably gurley will be the exception. But when talking about say qb's, and trying to win on their rookie deals, it's because you just can't avoid paying ungodly amounts for a great qb. when you have one cheap, it's an opportunity to flesh out the rest of your roster. having a cheap rb doesn't afford that luxury. especially when his relative cheapness is already 3rd or 4th most costly in the league.

on top of that, we see guys year after year plucked in the 2nd /3rd / 4th rounds that go on to be elite rb's. the year zeke was drafted jordan howard was a beast from the 5th. kamara and hunt last year, year before zeke it was david johnson, etc etc. just sucks.

 

[skinsscalper]

yeah, undoubtedly he costs less than he will. but that's besides the point. it's more about what the position league wide costs. There will always be outliers, and he, bell and probably gurley will be the exception. But when talking about say qb's, and trying to win on their rookie deals, it's because you just can't avoid paying ungodly amounts for a great qb. when you have one cheap, it's an opportunity to flesh out the rest of your roster. having a cheap rb doesn't afford that luxury. especially when his relative cheapness is already 3rd or 4th most costly in the league.

on top of that, we see guys year after year plucked in the 2nd /3rd / 4th rounds that go on to be elite rb's. the year zeke was drafted jordan howard was a beast from the 5th. kamara and hunt last year, year before zeke it was david johnson, etc etc. just sucks.

I agree with the premise of your argument but you're crying over spilled milk. Elliott at his peak performance is absolutely in the conversation as a league MVP. ANY player you can say that about who is still on his rookie contract (regardless of position) is a pretty decent deal, no?

Kamara is an absolute steal for the Saints, right now. I wouldn't argue that for a minute. Truth is, if ANY team knew that he would be what he turned out to be he never would have lasted until the 3rd round. It's not just cherry picking the Hunts, Johnsons, Howards of the world after the fact. It's identifying them and drafting them in the evaluation process. The hindsight game is a coward's point of argument (not saying you're a coward, btw). If any of the NFL teams knew what these guys would become, there's no way they last until the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th rounds. Zeke was a sure thing at a position of need. I won't fault the team for taking the best RB in the draft when that was one of their biggest needs and he fell right into their laps. Sorry, brother.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

My point is that the Cowboys are in the enviable position of having at least one (Elliott) and possibly two (Dak if he regains his 2016 form) MVP caliber players playing on very cheap contracts. It's a window of opportunity to actually go after a championship if they play the FA/tag game smart. I don't deny that Irving comes with it's own risks. For now, it's a one year deal. For the next (at least) 2 years we have to go into EVERY season with a win now mentality.

There's not a single 2nd round player in this draft (or any in recent memory) that produced a player that put up numbers like Irving in year one or two. NOT ONE. So, yes, when someone gets excited about less production when we are working with such a small window, I see it as stupid. Call me kooky.

It's like trying to rationalize trading in your 2016 F150 4X4 for a 2018 (yet to be named) economy sedan just because someone is willing to trade you straight up. Never mind the fact that you will actually need that 4X4 at several points in the year and the sedan MIGHT have an all-wheel drive upgrade (but no promises). Sound smart to you? If so then there's no reason to continue the conversation.

You continue to miss the point so I will accept your motion to end the conversation. Good day to you

 

[skinsscalper]

You continue to miss the point so I will accept your motion to end the conversation. Good day to you

Good day to you, also, sir.

 

[Proof]

I agree with the premise of your argument but you're crying over spilled milk. Elliott at his peak performance is absolutely in the conversation as a league MVP. ANY player you can say that about who is still on his rookie contract (regardless of position) is a pretty decent deal, no?

Kamara is an absolute steal for the Saints, right now. I wouldn't argue that for a minute. Truth is, if ANY team knew that he would be what he turned out to be he never would have lasted until the 3rd round. It's not just cherry picking the Hunts, Johnsons, Howards of the world after the fact. It's identifying them and drafting them in the evaluation process. The hindsight game is a coward's point of argument (not saying you're a coward, btw). If any of the NFL teams knew what these guys would become, there's no way they last until the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th rounds. Zeke was a sure thing at a position of need. I won't fault the team for taking the best RB in the draft when that was one of their biggest needs and he fell right into their laps. Sorry, brother.

I'm not necessarily crying about it though. Moreso just tiring of our approach. Not cherry picking either, just giving examples that year after year there are studs being produced from the middle rounds of the draft. To your point though, yes Zekes production makes his salary reasonable by comparison but again... Demarco had better production and we let him walk over similar money. You know what I mean? My ultimate point is this... we probably couldn't get a Zeke level replacement in FA for a reasonable rate, but we could get a very good rb for comparable money while say... having an all pro cornerback on a rookie deal when the going rate is 60-70 mil.

But regardless we will squander the window anyway it seems.

 

[skinsscalper]

I'm not necessarily crying about it though. Moreso just tiring of our approach. Not cherry picking either, just giving examples that year after year there are studs being produced from the middle rounds of the draft. To your point though, yes Zekes production makes his salary reasonable by comparison but again... Demarco had better production and we let him walk over similar money. You know what I mean? My ultimate point is this... we probably couldn't get a Zeke level replacement in FA for a reasonable rate, but we could get a very good rb for comparable money while say... having an all pro cornerback on a rookie deal when the going rate is 60-70 mil.

But regardless we will squander the window anyway it seems.

Don't give up just yet, my friend. We may very well have an AP CB that will be playing on a rookie deal. Give these kids a little time to find their own and I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

As to the Murray situation, he'll be on his 3rd team in 4 years and the wheels are falling off. Zeke's just getting started. If you asked me who I would take for "similar money", it's Zeke all day long, my friend.

I understand the people that wanted Ramsey with our pick. The kid is damned good but let me ask you this: Who gives this team a better shot at the Super Bowl? Ramsey or Elliott? I've been watching football a long time, my friend and I have yet to see a CB lead a team to the Super Bowl. RB is a different story. Now, don't get me wrong. You can get to the Super Bowl and win it without the league's best but I'll take a couple thousand yards in total production with 10-14 TDs thrown in for good measure over a few interceptions and a loud mouth all day long, but that's just me, bro.

Good talking to ya, Proof.

 

[Redball Express]

Anyone who is excited about gaining a 2nd round pick for a guy that's already productive (he had better numbers than Suh last year even with the suspension) her so that we can draft a "maybe" is a fool. We drafted Taco in the 1st last year and I'd take Irving over him 100 times out of 100.

Some people see a draft pick and they go stupid.

Agreed.

Look at Taco and Byron Jones and Smith.

Thats alot of wobble.

Not alot of impact yet.

Can we afford to do this..?

Wait 3-4 years for a player to blosoom?

I think not.

We need guys to start from Day 1.

And contribute.

 

[skinsscalper]

Agreed.

Look at Taco and Byron Jones and Smith.

Thats alot of wobble.

Not alot of impact yet.

Can we afford to do this..?

Wait 3-4 years for a player to blosoom?

I think not.

We need guys to start from Day 1.

And contribute.

That's the point of my hard stance on the issue regarding Irving. We are working with a very small window before we either have to break the bank for Dak or another QB (you can throw Elliott in there for good measure).

Now, in the long run the 2nd round pick MIGHT end up being the better deal. We don't have the luxury of a "long run" point of view.

 

[Proof]

Don't give up just yet, my friend. We may very well have an AP CB that will be playing on a rookie deal. Give these kids a little time to find their own and I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

As to the Murray situation, he'll be on his 3rd team in 4 years and the wheels are falling off. Zeke's just getting started. If you asked me who I would take for "similar money", it's Zeke all day long, my friend.

I understand the people that wanted Ramsey with our pick. The kid is damned good but let me ask you this: Who gives this team a better shot at the Super Bowl? Ramsey or Elliott? I've been watching football a long time, my friend and I have yet to see a CB lead a team to the Super Bowl. RB is a different story. Now, don't get me wrong. You can get to the Super Bowl and win it without the league's best but I'll take a couple thousand yards in total production with 10-14 TDs thrown in for good measure over a few interceptions and a loud mouth all day long, but that's just me, bro.

Good talking to ya, Proof.

Couple of things. I adore our young secondary. It wasn't about not having a potential all pro at cb, it was about from the 16 draft grabbing the guy and either signing an RB, or drafting one later (derick henry perhaps)

As far as Demarco is concerned we let him walk 3 years ago. Obviously you take zeke over him now, but had he not gone to Philly, been put in a scheme that didn't utilize him properly, behind a line that was patchwork at the time, I think things would have played out differently. The following year in Tenn he was tearing it up, they just happened to also draft a young stud back along with him. We could have done that. Could have kept him on what was actually a reasonable amount of money for his value, used him up and then drafted a guy like Henry to either compliment or supplant him. The point wasn't to say which would I rather have now, just that when Demarco was the OPOY and gave us our identity we balked at paying him what we're paying Zeke on a rookie deal. Zeke is worth it, 100 times over, it's just not the best allocation using a first and paying the going rate for him.

And is an RB a different story as far as SB aspirations are concerned? Philly didn't win because of (or with) a great rb, NE didn't win because of a great rb (they did get a historic performance from james white but again not a highly drafted stud) before that cj anderson definitely didn't propel the Broncos. But it's really not the point, it's a distracting sideshow to argue which position is more instrumental in winning a sb because it doesn't have a clear answer and misses the whole point. You build a team by drafting well and adding the right pieces in FA. Drafting an rb high doesn't necessarily preclude that, but in our situation it definitely compounds underlying issues. Jax can burn a 4th on fournette and it be smart because they also have young cheap defenders, and offset it by acquiring impact FA, same with cleveland if they draft barkley. With us we regretted letting Demarco walk and our following season going down the toilet, and they are a knee jerk organization

nice talking to you too

 

[dsturgeon]

I would. Net Gain: Earl Thomas and the 36th pick in the draft. Net Loss: David Irving and 50th pick in the draft. We get the better player and pick.

I think Irving is more valuable to us than earl thomas

 

[Proof]

I think Irving is more valuable to us than earl thomas

He could be, potentially. But potential is a tricky thing. Earl is a bonafide stud. Irving is a wildcard with a lot of moving pieces. Coupled with the fact that if he’s everything we hope he costs more.

 

[dsturgeon]

He could be, potentially. But potential is a tricky thing. Earl is a bonafide stud. Irving is a wildcard with a lot of moving pieces. Coupled with the fact that if he’s everything we hope he costs more.

Earl is a star with the seahawks dl, lb's, and secondary. He might not be on the cowboys. We know Irving will do well here.

 

[speedkilz88]

Couple of things. I adore our young secondary. It wasn't about not having a potential all pro at cb, it was about from the 16 draft grabbing the guy and either signing an RB, or drafting one later (derick henry perhaps)

As far as Demarco is concerned we let him walk 3 years ago. Obviously you take zeke over him now, but had he not gone to Philly, been put in a scheme that didn't utilize him properly, behind a line that was patchwork at the time, I think things would have played out differently. The following year in Tenn he was tearing it up, they just happened to also draft a young stud back along with him. We could have done that. Could have kept him on what was actually a reasonable amount of money for his value, used him up and then drafted a guy like Henry to either compliment or supplant him. The point wasn't to say which would I rather have now, just that when Demarco was the OPOY and gave us our identity we balked at paying him what we're paying Zeke on a rookie deal. Zeke is worth it, 100 times over, it's just not the best allocation using a first and paying the going rate for him.

And is an RB a different story as far as SB aspirations are concerned? Philly didn't win because of (or with) a great rb, NE didn't win because of a great rb (they did get a historic performance from james white but again not a highly drafted stud) before that cj anderson definitely didn't propel the Broncos. But it's really not the point, it's a distracting sideshow to argue which position is more instrumental in winning a sb because it doesn't have a clear answer and misses the whole point. You build a team by drafting well and adding the right pieces in FA. Drafting an rb high doesn't necessarily preclude that, but in our situation it definitely compounds underlying issues. Jax can burn a 4th on fournette and it be smart because they also have young cheap defenders, and offset it by acquiring impact FA, same with cleveland if they draft barkley. With us we regretted letting Demarco walk and our following season going down the toilet, and they are a knee jerk organization

nice talking to you too

Derrick Henry can't even win a starting role. DeMarco Murray was the starter and now the Titans have added Dion Lewis to start over him.

 

[rags747]

Considering what Elliott is going to cost on the open FA market (3 years from now, mind you, when those numbers will sky rocket) he's pretty cheap (relatively speaking). Look at the Bell situation, right now. How much you think Gurley is going to command on an open market. How about Fournette?

I believe Bell wants like 14-15m per year, can't see us keeping Zeke long term.

 

[Proof]

Derrick Henry can't even win a starting role. DeMarco Murray was the starter and now the Titans have added Dion Lewis to start over him.

You're joking right? lol he literally just won the starting role and propelled them to the playoffs, and closed out the first round win. Pushed Murray to the bench and ultimately cut. No one has been announced as next years starter and I'd be hard pressed to see Lewis start over him. Teams are moving more and more to two headed backfields, and I don't see signing Lewis as an indictment on Henry, more just doubling down on talent.

 

[speedkilz88]

You're joking right? lol he literally just won the starting role and propelled them to the playoffs, and closed out the first round win. Pushed Murray to the bench and ultimately cut. No one has been announced as next years starter and I'd be hard pressed to see Lewis start over him. Teams are moving more and more to two headed backfields, and I don't see signing Lewis as an indictment on Henry, more just doubling down on talent.