Opinion: MM made decision to move from Moore

glimmerman

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Jane Slater reported from the combine that Mike looks really energized and excited to be running the offense. She said that Mike was very open about the exciting work he and the coordinator and line coach have already been doing to shore up both the shoddy run blocking schemes and the pass pro. Mike wants a tighter pocket for the passing game and better run blocking schemes by formation.

Sounds like he did not hold Moore in the genius category that Jerry did.
The O-Line blocking schemes is not on Moore. MM hired his good buddy as O-Line coach. Now he has gotten power run scheme coaches. He knows he needs to run the ball to keep Dak from throwing 40 times a game. But Moore ran those worn out formations with the same blocking scheme and same formations from Linehan days.
 

glimmerman

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To be fair, most of the games we lost were because of Dak.
I think 2 was because of blown leads. We had a 17 and the one we all loved was the 14 point lead against the packers. Dak played his part as did the rest of the team. Look how good we played against bucs in playoffs. That was not just Dak picking them apart. WR getting open and good play calling. Everyone but our kicker played well.
 

glimmerman

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Can you picture MM, on a weekly basis, after a loss saying:

1. If I was calling the plays, I would have run the ball here because of (list reason).

2. It would have really helped our defense if we had run the ball here.

3. It would have really helped us ice the game if we had run the ball here instead of throwing the incompletion.

4. I think it was a real tactical mistake here to throw the home run ball in a tight game on our end of the field when it was 3rd and 1.

5. Our passing game looks pretty good, but everything about our running game leaves a lot to be desired.

6. We are too predictable running the ball. Do you see the defenders stacking the box here?

7. Our offensive linemen are “too big, strong and dominant” to not have more success in the running game.

8. I will honor your request for me to be hands off in calling plays because you are the boss. But I think it’s only fair for you to know I would have approached these scenarios a little bit differently.

Masterful job of walking the land mines by MM. It’s required when you work for JJ.

MM may not be the best coach in the NFL, but he might be the best (well established) coach who can actually work for JJ and the boys.
The 49ers game clinched it. Unless Dak checked out of run plays into pass plays then Moore made 2 bad calls not to run. The second pick Dak threw was on a 2nd and short. This was the time and field position for Dak to use his own legs and take off. He could have snapped it and rolled out and had space for easy 1st down. Daks mistake was not just throwing it away. Bad play call and pass. The long ball on 3rd down could have been a QB keeper. When Dak uses his legs and picks up first downs it fires him and the team up while confusing the opposing defense. Our Defense dropped a pick 6 also. We get to playoffs we need better coaching. Player talent evens up in playoffs.
 

fivetwos

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Is there ANY shot that people can agree that it doesn’t matter exactly which one is at fault and settle on the fact that the COMBO of the two was the issue?

Even if it wasn’t, it was time to try something new.
 

glimmerman

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I don't remember the precise quote, but someone in management said something like "McCarthy made the case to make him the play caller". Basically that he pushed Moore out.

Likely it was more a step for self-preservation than a desire for himself. It wasn't the defense that failed in the playoffs, it was the offense. Some head was gonna roll. Unfortunately, we're already locked into Dak. So a change was either McCarthy or Moore.

Management:
You're the HC and we failed in the playoffs, and we failed in what is supposed to be your area of expertise, the offense.

The natural counter from McCarthy would be:
I wasn't the one calling the plays. I can coach and direct as much as I want, but Moore just has a different philosophy than mine, and while I agreed with keeping Moore as OC, you made it a condition of taking the job. If I had picked an OC myself, it obviously would have been someone closer to my philosophy.

So Moore is out, and even before we get a new OC, the decision is announced that McCarthy will be the play caller going forward. If it were *just* dissatisfaction with Moore that prompted his firing, it's more natural to leave the play caller decision to *after* you find a new OC.

I think McCarthy threw Moore to the wolves to keep his tenure alive. Leaves McCarthy battling with Dak to survive the next failure, but that largely comes down to whether management leaves themselves the option of dumping Dak if he isn't cutting it.
Yeah because Moore was not an option for MM to replace when he came in. JJ over thinking it. MM knows he don’t have a rogers at QB. Looks like a shorter quicker passing Offense coming that had a big power blocking O-Line. I think MM will like having a power blocking line with this talent. We will get a good RB. I look for a TE to play a FB on some plays. And we will have possibly a better Defense.
 

glimmerman

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Is there ANY shot that people can agree that it doesn’t matter exactly which one is at fault and settle on the fact that the COMBO of the two was the issue?

Even if it wasn’t, it was time to try something new.
Which combo. MM and Moore or Moore and Dak.
 

Cowboyny

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Listening to SJ he mentioned MM brought up moving on from Moore. At least it sounded that way.

MM is a SB winning coach. He knows he dont have a rogers. I am seeing them going or attempting to go Cowboys 2016. Run first with a big O-Line and good RBs. That maybe different for MM but he brought in power running O-Line coach and again knows he don’t have rogers. Put more WR talent around Dak and go with the short high % passes and let them get YAC. He will have a good Defense maybe even great and a very good ST.

MM knows his job is on the line because Quinn will likely get his job unless he goes to SB. If I am MM and am saddled with Dak then this is what I do. Dak can do this but you can not ask him to throw tight window passes all day or throw 40 times a game to Noah Browns. Keep it simple and lean on a run game. They do have a Dak that’s improved from 2016. He can make the throws. Just dont abandon the run if you get down by 2 points.
Absolutely, but they also know this current offense wasn't good enough to get over the hump. Back to back seasons, offense struggled down the stretch, one of the main reasons why is that they couldn't run the football with any consistency. He brought in new coaches to create a better rushing scheme and cannot have an offense turning over the football so much. Dak never had turnover problems until recently.
 

Hawkeye0202

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Absolutely, but they also know this current offense wasn't good enough to get over the hump. Back to back seasons, offense struggled down the stretch, one of the main reasons why is that they couldn't run the football with any consistency. He brought in new coaches to create a better rushing scheme and cannot have an offense turning over the football so much. Dak never had turnover problems until recently.
One GM made an interesting the other day about the running game......... as he put it, nice to have a sexy passing game in the regular season but you have to play defense and run the ball to win in January. The 49ers used the exact formula to beat us 2021 playoffs. 2022 we had the defense but couldn't run.
Seeing the coaching moves they have made and listened to MM today, I'm really excited. I think they've finally figured this thing out. My guess is we will have no one but two starting RBs.
 

Rockport

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Listening to SJ he mentioned MM brought up moving on from Moore. At least it sounded that way.

MM is a SB winning coach. He knows he dont have a rogers. I am seeing them going or attempting to go Cowboys 2016. Run first with a big O-Line and good RBs. That maybe different for MM but he brought in power running O-Line coach and again knows he don’t have rogers. Put more WR talent around Dak and go with the short high % passes and let them get YAC. He will have a good Defense maybe even great and a very good ST.

MM knows his job is on the line because Quinn will likely get his job unless he goes to SB. If I am MM and am saddled with Dak then this is what I do. Dak can do this but you can not ask him to throw tight window passes all day or throw 40 times a game to Noah Browns. Keep it simple and lean on a run game. They do have a Dak that’s improved from 2016. He can make the throws. Just dont abandon the run if you get down by 2 points.
 

Cowboyny

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One GM made an interesting the other day about the running game......... as he put it, nice to have a sexy passing game in the regular season but you have to play defense and run the ball to win in January. The 49ers used the exact formula to beat us 2021 playoffs. 2022 we had the defense but couldn't run.
Seeing the coaching moves they have made and listened to MM today, I'm really excited. I think they've finally figured this thing out. My guess is we will have no one but two starting RBs.
Yes, all the tea leaves are suggesting a return to that 2016 type of run first offense. Dominate the clock, keep your defense fresh and limit the turnovers. We are pretty sure Pollard is returning and Zeke probably not. Expect to see a running back taken somewhere within out 1st three picks.
 

dreghorn2

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McCarthy quote from ESPN article today.

"Kellen wants to light the scoreboard up, but I want to run the damn ball so I can rest my defense," McCarthy said. "I think when you're a coordinator, you're in charge of the offense. Being a head coach and being a playcaller, you're a little more in tune with [everything]. I don't have the desire to be the No. 1 offense in the league. I want to be the No. 1 team in the league with a number of wins and a championship. And if we've got to give up some production and take care of the ball better to get that, then that's what we'll do, because we have a really good defense."
 

Hawkeye0202

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Expect to see a running back taken somewhere within out 1st three picks.
I read somewhere a couple of days ago from a GM tweet.......teams today need two quality RBs. Asking one to carry the load and stay healthy is too much. He was talking season wise........
 

Cowboyny

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I read somewhere a couple of days ago from a GM tweet.......teams today need two quality RBs. Asking one to carry the load and stay healthy is too much. He was talking season wise........
Yes, we were spoiled several years with Zeke being so durable. Pollard needs to be managed, they need another bell cow
 

TheSport78

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I think 2 was because of blown leads. We had a 17 and the one we all loved was the 14 point lead against the packers. Dak played his part as did the rest of the team. Look how good we played against bucs in playoffs. That was not just Dak picking them apart. WR getting open and good play calling. Everyone but our kicker played well.
A lot of teams knocked the rails off the Bucs last year. Won the division by default against an interim head coach, Andy Dalton, and Marcus Mariota, and still only won 8 games.
 

glimmerman

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I read somewhere a couple of days ago from a GM tweet.......teams today need two quality RBs. Asking one to carry the load and stay healthy is too much. He was talking season wise........
Of course. Thats why I was ok with the Elliot pick. There is not many of those types anymore. But they should be allowed to be paid more in their rookie contract. Bell cows don’t last long. Elliot is lucky JJ paid him.
 

glimmerman

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McCarthy quote from ESPN article today.

"Kellen wants to light the scoreboard up, but I want to run the damn ball so I can rest my defense," McCarthy said. "I think when you're a coordinator, you're in charge of the offense. Being a head coach and being a playcaller, you're a little more in tune with [everything]. I don't have the desire to be the No. 1 offense in the league. I want to be the No. 1 team in the league with a number of wins and a championship. And if we've got to give up some production and take care of the ball better to get that, then that's what we'll do, because we have a really good defense."
Well. Dak said one year that Moore and Dak could get a little greedy. Meaning throwing the ball in harms way to get the bigger play.
 

glimmerman

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Yes, all the tea leaves are suggesting a return to that 2016 type of run first offense. Dominate the clock, keep your defense fresh and limit the turnovers. We are pretty sure Pollard is returning and Zeke probably not. Expect to see a running back taken somewhere within out 1st three picks.
You mean the first 3 rounds. Lol. I expect the same but I actually think Elliot will take the big pay cut and stay. We will have a 3 headed monster.
 

kevm3

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If anything, McCarthy's presence here got rid of the Jerry Jones proteges, so just for that alone he's helped this organization.

Kellen Moore really should be somewhere learning under a coaching tree. How you go from player to OC like 2 years later is beyond me.
 

DuncanIso

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The O-Line blocking schemes is not on Moore. MM hired his good buddy as O-Line coach. Now he has gotten power run scheme coaches. He knows he needs to run the ball to keep Dak from throwing 40 times a game. But Moore ran those worn out formations with the same blocking scheme and same formations from Linehan days.
KMoore runs a college offense.

It does work though. Look at the stats.

Agree on the run plays.
 

glimmerman

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One GM made an interesting the other day about the running game......... as he put it, nice to have a sexy passing game in the regular season but you have to play defense and run the ball to win in January. The 49ers used the exact formula to beat us 2021 playoffs. 2022 we had the defense but couldn't run.
Seeing the coaching moves they have made and listened to MM today, I'm really excited. I think they've finally figured this thing out. My guess is we will have no one but two starting RBs.
Yeah we need a hammer and a nail. If Elliot can’t do it then get one that can. My only question is will Pollard be the same.
 
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