Orton a "No Show" at Minicamp Practice today **Contract Details Post #36**

[Nightman]

If the Cowboys simply cut the guy I'll be angry. Either he plays for Dallas or he retires and gives back the bonus.

Either.

Or.

Why does it really matter? The 5m signing bonus was a huge part of his total pay package for 2012 and 2013. He only had base salaries of 800k and 1.4m for those 2 years. A little over 7m is the going rate for a top backup QB. He shouldn't have to pay most of the bonus back if he really just wants to retire. They shouldn't press the issue and should just part ways. They don't need the distraction or negative vibes.

 

[Stash]

Why does it really matter? The 5m signing bonus was a huge part of his total pay package for 2012 and 2013. He only had base salaries of 800k and 1.4m for those 2 years. A little over 7m is the going rate for a top backup QB. He shouldn't have to pay most of the bonus back if he really just wants to retire. They shouldn't press the issue and should just part ways. They don't need the distraction or negative vibes.

Why should he get to keep it if he's not honoring the terms of the deal?

If the Cowboys were the ones not honoring it by cutting him?

Sure.

But that's most certainly not the case.

I'm not interested in setting another bad president like Ratliff and letting a player get rewarded for not honoring a contract.

No way.

Fine him, suspend him, but him on did not report.

Whatever shows players that they can't mess around with his team.

 

[Nightman]

I'm saying he did honor the deal. You can't say teams can cut a player at anytime and then say players have to follow the contract to it's completion. In the NFL contracts mean very little, all that matters is the guaranteed money. The 5m dollar signing bonus was 80% his pay for the last 2 years. Just because Dallas likes to add voidable years to help against the cap, that money was earned. Would they like to get another year out of Orton, probably. But if he doesn't want to play, he shouldn't have to give back money he actually earned. His base salary this year is 3.25m, so that is what Dallas thinks a backup QB is worth and that is what they paid him for 2012 and 2013.

It sets a bad precedent the other way. You want guys that will allow you to rework their contracts when you need salary cap space. If you start going after money that meant as pay, but accounted for over 5 years for cap purposes, players will not rework their deals anymore. The amount is so small, 1.6m that it's not worth the bad press. Ratliff was a completely different animal. He hadn't earned all of his signing bonus yet and then just quit on the team after milking his injury for as long as he could.

What you don't want is Orton showing up to camp, being pushed hard out of spite and then getting injured in camp. Then he not only keeps the signing bonus money, but they have to pay his 3.25m salary as well.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Why should he get to keep it if he's not honoring the terms of the deal?

If the Cowboys were the ones not honoring it by cutting him?

Sure.

But that's most certainly not the case.

I'm not interested in setting another bad president like Ratliff and letting a player get rewarded for not honoring a contract.

No way.

Fine him, suspend him, but him on did not report.

Whatever shows players that they can't mess around with his team.

Okay, but the flip side I'd argue is that by doing this you're saying that money is more important than getting rid of a quitting player.

To me, cutting him would say to the other players, "Jerry is serious enough that he'd rather eat a couple million dollars than put up with this distraction."

 

[Air Force One]

Choked like a dog, with no reps for 2 years and 2 days to prepare for a game?....

That was his JOB...to sit his butt on the bench and come in when needed and PERFORM. He failed at his job and deserves nothing more than he has already been paid.

 

[Idgit]

I disagree. Ratliff was a pretty unique situation. The word is Orton doesn't want to play anymore. It isn't Jerry's fault that Orton has lost his fire.

Of course it's not Jerry bungling anything. The guy doesn't want to play. That's not the organization's fault. And Orton has no leverage here, anyway. We'll move on as if he were injured, and his side will have to decide what they want to do.

 

[KingintheNorth]

Always willing to bash Jerry but this is all Orton. There was some talk last year that he didn't want to play anymore. He's always been a little bit different kind of dude. I think the team knew something was up which is why they signed Hanie.

Orton has to decide if he wants the money or the freedom. He can't have both. I think Hanie and Weeden are adequate backups. If Romo goes down this team is in trouble anyway. The difference between Orton vs Hanie/ Weeden won't make much if any difference.

 

[noshame]

That was his JOB...to sit his butt on the bench and come in when needed and PERFORM. He failed at his job and deserves nothing more than he has already been paid.

Tell me you don't fly planes do you?

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Always willing to bash Jerry but this is all Orton. There was some talk last year that he didn't want to play anymore. He's always been a little bit different kind of dude. I think the team knew something was up which is why they signed Hanie.

Orton has to decide if he wants the money or the freedom. He can't have both. I think Hanie and Weeden are adequate backups. If Romo goes down this team is in trouble anyway. The difference between Orton vs Hanie/ Weeden won't make much if any difference.

agreed. I think they knew something when they signed weeden..... If he wants to be retired, be retired.... or fulfill your contract......


Hate your helmut btw Chris...

 

[Stash]

Okay, but the flip side I'd argue is that by doing this you're saying that money is more important than getting rid of a quitting player.

To me, cutting him would say to the other players, "Jerry is serious enough that he'd rather eat a couple million dollars than put up with this distraction."

And to me it sets the precedent that if you want out of Dallas without honoring your contract, just act up.

You get your money AND you get paid elsewhere.

Ratliff already did it and now Orton is trying it too. You give in to this and it's just a matter of time before the next guy tries it.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

And to me it sets the precedent that if you want out of Dallas without honoring your contract, just act up.

You get your money AND you get paid elsewhere.

Ratliff already did it and now Orton is trying it too. You give in to this and it's just a matter of time before the next guy tries it.

Exactly. The door was opened by Ratliff and it now needs to be closed by whatever means necessary.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Okay, but the flip side I'd argue is that by doing this you're saying that money is more important than getting rid of a quitting player.

To me, cutting him would say to the other players, "Jerry is serious enough that he'd rather eat a couple million dollars than put up with this distraction."

Yeah, the money is more important.

Let Orton show up to camp and just ooze a little "quitter" attitude and see what happens to him.

As it is now, I bet if he shows up he's not going to be treated with a lot of respect by the other players and coaches. Orton has already burned several of the "piers" and his bridge is ready to collapse.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

And to me it sets the precedent that if you want out of Dallas without honoring your contract, just act up.

You get your money AND you get paid elsewhere.

Ratliff already did it and now Orton is trying it too. You give in to this and it's just a matter of time before the next guy tries it.

Everything I've heard is that he just wants to retire. I haven't heard that he wants to go somewhere else, but I guess anything's possible.

 

[Stash]

Everything I've heard is that he just wants to retire. I haven't heard that he wants to go somewhere else, but I guess anything's possible.

And that's fine if he wants to retire. Just pay back what you were paid with the agreement that you would play and he's free to enjoy the rest of his life any way he wants.

 

[Fredd]

And to me it sets the precedent that if you want out of Dallas without honoring your contract, just act up.

You get your money AND you get paid elsewhere.

Ratliff already did it and now Orton is trying it too. You give in to this and it's just a matter of time before the next guy tries it.

I just don't understand HOW Ratliff got away with it? There has to be some type of league repercussions from that; admittedly, I am not up to speed on whether they (the FO) is trying to do anything about that or not....but, for those saying he has fulfilled his contract, no he hasn't....his contract said basically "You get this $5m up front as long as you are here for the years of your contract. We'll give you money up front, just don't screw us by quitting or you owe it back, OK?"

fine him for every mandatory practice/event/meeting/ladies social that he misses and recoup as much of his salary as possible. make him the very last cut in TC if he hasn't been in and then there will likely be no jobs for him to go to....count whatever money is left as "lesson learned" and move on...if he signs with someone else, then they are truly HUGE idiots for taking the chance that he will want to be on a field and competing....

Orton must go, just on as little of the team's dime as possible

 

[TheCount]

Why does it really matter? The 5m signing bonus was a huge part of his total pay package for 2012 and 2013. He only had base salaries of 800k and 1.4m for those 2 years. A little over 7m is the going rate for a top backup QB. He shouldn't have to pay most of the bonus back if he really just wants to retire. They shouldn't press the issue and should just part ways. They don't need the distraction or negative vibes.

Because if he's cut, not only does he get paid, but he can choose to un-retire and go wherever he wants. If he doesn't want to play, then he should be paying back everything he owes back and go home to spend some family time or whatever it is he wants to do in retirement.

 

[xwalker]

Why should he get to keep it if he's not honoring the terms of the deal?

If the Cowboys were the ones not honoring it by cutting him?

Sure.

But that's most certainly not the case.

I'm not interested in setting another bad president like Ratliff and letting a player get rewarded for not honoring a contract.

No way.

Fine him, suspend him, but him on did not report.

Whatever shows players that they can't mess around with his team.

It's not a cut and dried issue because of the fake years added to the end of his contract. If not for those 2 years, then he would owe 1.6M instead of 3.4M. Those years were added for the teams benefit. I'm sure that he considered the contract that he signed as a 3-year deal and never considered that the added fake (team voidable) years would cost him.

Having said that, if he is that concerned about the money, then he should have just played out his final season. Regardless of the bonus money issue, he is giving up the 3.25M base salary that he could be making.

He could have just done what the Packers backup did last season. In his 1st start Seneca Wallace exited the game with a groin injury after the 1st series. I was convinced while watching that game that he just didn't want to play. He didn't make any attempt to play after the injury despite walking off the field and not appearing to be in any significant pain.

 

[Nightman]

Because if he's cut, not only does he get paid, but he can choose to un-retire and go wherever he wants. If he doesn't want to play, then he should be paying back everything he owes back and go home to spend some family time or whatever it is he wants to do in retirement.

He doesn't get paid if he is cut and he doesn't owe Dallas any money. The signing bonus was his pay for 2012-3.

 

[TheCount]

He doesn't get paid if he is cut and he doesn't owe Dallas any money. The signing bonus was his pay for 2012-3.

That's only if his contract EXCLUDED any wording that made the bonus subject to his upholding said contract. Refusing to retire OR show up certainly doesn't sound like he's uploading his side of the deal.

 

[Nightman]

That's only if his contract EXCLUDED any wording that made the bonus subject to his upholding said contract. Refusing to retire OR show up certainly doesn't sound like he's uploading his side of the deal.

If you asked the Joneses, Orton and his agent and they were honest, they would say that signing bonus was meant as his pay for 2012-13. If they try to go after now, when Orton did them a favor by adding the voidable years, that would be bad business and petty. Other players will be reluctant to re-do their deals if they think the team will use it against them later.