Our future at Cornerback?

CouchCoach

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What looks like a problem might just be an opportunity. Got 3 CB's going into the season as a prove it season to get a new deal or worse case, showcase themselves for FA.

Got a secondary coach thought highly of so making the decision should be in good hands so I am going to wait to see how this all unfolds.

Here's the kicker, this isn't a secondary known for having one ball hawk and the skills so far, seem to be lacking. To the DC and SC, picks are great but merely one of the evaluations they make on the secondary. Our criticisms of these players, specifically B. Jones are not necessarily what they will use. For instance, does Jones' coverage give the DL and extra second to get to the QB? Does he cause the QB to throw to the WR that the Cowboys prefer to have the ball? Hell if I know but picks are not going to be the criteria for getting a new contract.
 

CouchCoach

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I suspect it comes down to La’el Collins and Byron Jones. Are we better off with C.Williams and a 1st round OT or Jourdan Lewis and a 1st round corner? I would have liked the corner but if Byron Jones is looking at 16-18m and La’el Collins asked for 10m I can understand going that direction.

I think next draft we go 1st & 3rd on a corner and lean on Chido and Lewis to carry the load until draft picks develop. We should be alright.
They already extended La'el Collins. So much for that Williams to RT and McGovern to LG. He got 6th highest RT money so he's staying there.
 

CATCH17

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They already extended La'el Collins. So much for that Williams to RT and McGovern to LG. He got 6th highest RT money so he's staying there.

I think the real battle will be next year between McGovern and C. Williams.

McGovern just looks like a natural guard. Should be interesting.
 

quickccc

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I'm still, to this day, trying to figure out where this hang up is on interceptions. Byron doesn't deserve a second contract because he doesn't create turnovers..yet a quick glance at DBs who consistently create turnovers has given me a very small pool to pick from.

Marcus Peters and Richard Sherman seemed to be the only consistent DBs with turnovers.

So, yourself saying we can just pick a few kids out of college that can reproduce Byrons season last year? And take the gamble of them paying off, not only being a **** down corner but also a ballhawk?

My apologies if I'm coming off crass, I'm just trying to find a basis for the "needs turnovers for contracts" argument.


I agree that you do want top shutdown coverage first.. and – turnovers 2nd

… but you also want to be convinced that it wasn’t just a year wonder. As it’s been several CBs in the past that have had stellar year followed up by subpar year(s) ( And the Cowboys have rode that prove- it- another- year bike ride before)

As far as turnovers (and ball hawks that get turnovers) - Less turnovers by defenses means lesser chances to get the Give-Takeaway ratio tipped in our favor.
For all the expectation and hype around Xavier Woods , he’s going to be eventually measured by his ability to drive and take the ball away on INTs.

There has been evidence of defenses that won Super Bowls despite yielding a certain amount of yards per game because of their opportunistic penchant for forcing turnovers. (ala Saints and Green Bay) Turnovers are game changers, they are back killers, and completely turn the complexion of the game.

- If KC Chiefs were not offside and flagged ( Dee Ford) … they would have been in the Super Bowl, because of an potential game sealing INT vs Brady on that play in the most critical game of the year.

- look how Jordan Lewis’ INT turnover immediately halted Saints potential game drive to win.

Maybe when you start looking the top CBs around, you see that they have BOTH top coverage skills as well as the ball hawk ability to get the INTs you mention
past guys like Sherman, Peters (who was lousy in a new coverage scheme BTW) take a look at the up comers like Marshon Lattimore, Xavier Howard, Darius Slay, Kyle Fuller

Having ball hawks playmakers consistently capable of generating those kind of turnovers makes it a staple of your defense, that halts drives, that changes field position, it immediately
places your offense in a more favorable scoring position for your team,.

Byron Jones year was a marvel. As I’ve never heard of a player making the All pro list and yet never came up with a single INT. and if you thought that on paper, you’d be thinking teams stayed away from him, which they didn’t because they knew he wasn’t a threat to INT the ball.

In short;
- if the Cowboys do re-sign Jones as one of the highest paid CBs in NFL, then that will be both an level of impression to retain his skills and the fear of not being able to replace him
will come into play in keeping him.

- If the Cowboys allow him to walk in free agency, as Byron will surely have some NFL team that will overpay for him – then that will cement their impressions that he is not elite core player
that is a must- to keep and they think they can trust McClay group to draft a capable CB to replace him.
 

quickccc

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Teams won’t be afraid to throw at Byron because they know he’s more to try to knock it down ..vs making a drive on the ball for the turnovers. They would never have to worry about that in a 2 minute offense.
It’s a good chance the Cowboys could re-sign Jones, simply because ..just as you said they have long suffered at CB since the days of Terrence Newman (and one lone good year by Mike Jenkins) that they may be that more pessimistic that a chance at another high performing CB may result in another lengthy suffer period.

The big problem we could find ourselves in is if (when?) Richards departs for a HC job elsewhere and then becomes the task of finding the same kind of man-press coach that fit- suits Byron.

An new DB coach,.. a new heir apparent DC that may want more of a off- line, cushion approach and may prefer a mixture of zone and man, cover 2, etc. that is going to be totally out of Byron’s comfort. He’s not an space, cushion or zone guy..
As we found out with the former secondary coach Joe Baker ( who was insistent on keeping Byron at FS) .. it does make a huge difference in who is in place as coach, coordinator…
 

BigTimeBlues

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I agree that you do want top shutdown coverage first.. and – turnovers 2nd

… but you also want to be convinced that it wasn’t just a year wonder. As it’s been several CBs in the past that have had stellar year followed up by subpar year(s) ( And the Cowboys have rode that prove- it- another- year bike ride before)

As far as turnovers (and ball hawks that get turnovers) - Less turnovers by defenses means lesser chances to get the Give-Takeaway ratio tipped in our favor.
For all the expectation and hype around Xavier Woods , he’s going to be eventually measured by his ability to drive and take the ball away on INTs.

There has been evidence of defenses that won Super Bowls despite yielding a certain amount of yards per game because of their opportunistic penchant for forcing turnovers. (ala Saints and Green Bay) Turnovers are game changers, they are back killers, and completely turn the complexion of the game.

- If KC Chiefs were not offside and flagged ( Dee Ford) … they would have been in the Super Bowl, because of an potential game sealing INT vs Brady on that play in the most critical game of the year.

- look how Jordan Lewis’ INT turnover immediately halted Saints potential game drive to win.

Maybe when you start looking the top CBs around, you see that they have BOTH top coverage skills as well as the ball hawk ability to get the INTs you mention
past guys like Sherman, Peters (who was lousy in a new coverage scheme BTW) take a look at the up comers like Marshon Lattimore, Xavier Howard, Darius Slay, Kyle Fuller

Having ball hawks playmakers consistently capable of generating those kind of turnovers makes it a staple of your defense, that halts drives, that changes field position, it immediately
places your offense in a more favorable scoring position for your team,.

Byron Jones year was a marvel. As I’ve never heard of a player making the All pro list and yet never came up with a single INT. and if you thought that on paper, you’d be thinking teams stayed away from him, which they didn’t because they knew he wasn’t a threat to INT the ball.

In short;
- if the Cowboys do re-sign Jones as one of the highest paid CBs in NFL, then that will be both an level of impression to retain his skills and the fear of not being able to replace him
will come into play in keeping him.

- If the Cowboys allow him to walk in free agency, as Byron will surely have some NFL team that will overpay for him – then that will cement their impressions that he is not elite core player
that is a must- to keep and they think they can trust McClay group to draft a capable CB to replace him.
I LOVE well thought out and informative posts. I also really appreciate your input :thumbup:
 

xwalker

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So what do you guys see happening?

Byron Jones, Chido, and Anthony Brown will all become available.

Can we potentially bring back all 3?

Would we pick Chido and Brown over Byron or vice versa?

It's looking like Corner is going to be the top priority in the 2020 draft.

Only Jones and Brown are free agents in 2020.

They have Awuzie and Lewis under contract for 2020.

They need to retain one of Jones or Brown.

Jones might get Franchised Tagged.
 

quickccc

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What makes you think Richard will be an improvement at DC? He just tried it out a couple years ago, it didn't go well for him.


while he was Seattle's DC, Richard's unit finished in the top three in the NFL, in points allowed in both 2015 and 2016... before falling to 13th his last season as Seahawk's DC.
Losing key players such as Thomas, Chandellor and Sherman to injuries did not help in the matters.

It's been rumored that Carroll and Richard had a " philosophical' differences in the blitzing schemes and a question if Richards (a long time coaching assistant with Carroll ) may have been
preferring to call upon the game more gamble risking and aggressively than what Carroll usually prefers and both agreed to part ways.

Bottom line is, Richard has a proven resume to his credential and he's just as much a catalyst for the Legion of Boom defensive development as any coach there.
 

Mobinvans

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Byron cant catch...never gets any interceptions, I'd let him walk
 

InTheZone

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seeing how everyone hated on Brown for awhile (not going to include myself on this, just vividly remember him getting so much flack, even after he filled in nicely his rookie year) I can see him the odd man out. He's going to want to go somewhere where he thinks he can start. Jones and Awuzie are here to stay.
 

visionary

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So what do you guys see happening?

Byron Jones, Chido, and Anthony Brown will all become available.

Can we potentially bring back all 3?

Would we pick Chido and Brown over Byron or vice versa?

It's looking like Corner is going to be the top priority in the 2020 draft.

Not complicated

Extend Chido before trade deadline (so we have leverage)

Trade Jones at trade deadline for rd 2 pick and draft CB with that pick

Offer contracts to Brown and Lewis in off season and sign whoever is willing to do a reasonable deal
 

mattjames2010

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while he was Seattle's DC, Richard's unit finished in the top three in the NFL, in points allowed in both 2015 and 2016... before falling to 13th his last season as Seahawk's DC.
Losing key players such as Thomas, Chandellor and Sherman to injuries did not help in the matters.

It's been rumored that Carroll and Richard had a " philosophical' differences in the blitzing schemes and a question if Richards (a long time coaching assistant with Carroll ) may have been
preferring to call upon the game more gamble risking and aggressively than what Carroll usually prefers and both agreed to part ways.

Bottom line is, Richard has a proven resume to his credential and he's just as much a catalyst for the Legion of Boom defensive development as any coach there.

Points allowed do not tell the entire story - you don’t get rid of a great young DC that is producing great results if there isn’t something wrong

The fact he didn’t get a DC job anywhere else isn’t a great sign either
 

quickccc

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Points allowed do not tell the entire story - you don’t get rid of a great young DC that is producing great results if there isn’t something wrong

The fact he didn’t get a DC job anywhere else isn’t a great sign either

maybe you do part ways, if you cannot come to a disagreement in what the defensive philosophy
and scheme should be.
But if i have a DC that is heading a defense that is in the top 3 overall in points yields, i'll take that .

But as far as no DC anywhere else, maybe he saw Cowboys calling as an opportunity that was
even better than just your average waiting , we never know what incenatives, dollars and pathway
could have offered than what could have been out there.

and even more so, he was called up for interviews with several teams as HC candidate
I'm elated he may have been " persuaded" by the Cowboys to stay.
 

cowboyec

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I'm keepin' 24.
I try to keep Byron.
but you damn well better believe Im keepin' 24.
 

817Gill

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One thing we forget about Byron is how much he’s said that he wants to stay here for his whole career. And I don’t mean that in the same sense Zeke said it, with the business caveat.

Byron is diet Jaylon Smith in this aspect. Jaylon took a below market value deal to remain with the team, I know the injury played a factor, but he also has business interests and is a big part of the elite Dallas community.

Here’s Byron on Dallas:

‘In an interview yesterday Jones let his desire to stick with the Cowboys be known:

“You’re not going to find a better, more well-ran organization than the Cowboys,” Jones said. “The fans are great, the weather’s great, the food’s great for me. I live right in the city too, so I want nothing other than playing for the Dallas Cowboys.”

“There’s so much room for improvement from me and that’s the beautiful part about it,” said Jones, who finished with a career-high 14 pass breakups in 2018.’


Keep in mind he also had the longest speech at the team luncheon thanking everyone and talking about how much he loved the team. He is “indebted” to Kris Richard for the position switch and coaching him up to be an All-Pro, something he never thought he’d be.

I am very confident from looking at what he’s said for years and the in between the lines stuff that Byron will be willing to sign a team friendly deal. And at his press conference he’ll say all the things SJ and JJ have been spewing all offseason.
 

bsbellomy

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What makes you think Richard will be an improvement at DC? He just tried it out a couple years ago, it didn't go well for him.

When people get second chances sometimes they prove people wrong. Richard did that last year. If there were significant doubts about his ability he wouldn't have gotten consideration for head coaching jobs this offseason.
 
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