Parsons vs Eagles' Hasson Riddick

[cnuball21]

Come contract negotiation time .. it is.

- How do you think DLaw got his first big money contract when he re-signed a 5 year- 105 million..?
He backed and based it with two double digit sack seasons.

- Robert Quinn had 11 sacks his final year with the Cowboys, ..and that led to a 5 year 70 million contract with the Bears.

No it’s not…NFL teams are much smarter than that.

Crosby and Jordan are 2 of the highest paid DEs in football and only have hit 10+ sacks in only 2 of their last 4 years.

I’d take both of them over Reddick 10 times out of 10 with zero hesitation even though he may give you more sacks.

 

[exciter]

i don't think Philly cares about what Reddick did his first 3 years .. its about those 16 sacks in just one single season upon his arrival signing, that he's giving them heading into the playoffs.

Nope, and still you’re trying to compare a 6 year vet’s production to a 2nd year player, at a position that usually takes a couple years to fully develop into! Reddick has had a much better surrounding cast both along the line (especially at DT) and at CB. He’s feeding off the players around him, whereas Micah’s supporting cast have for the most part relied of him!

 

[xwalker]

How much/many QB hits, sacks, forced fumbles came in the 1st half of the season,..?

How many QB hits, sacks, forced fumbles came in the 2nd half of the season ...?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/ReddHa00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/ParsMi00.htm

Parsons had 13 QB hits from week 11 to the final game...

Study of All-22 shows that the Cowboys pass rush was intentionally scaled back in order to improve run defense. The changes started after Packers game when they gave up 207 yards rushing. The previous game they had given up 240 rushing vs the Bears.

They went to an old school read&react approach. It got more extreme once Hankins and LVE were out.

 

[quickccc]

No it’s not…NFL teams are much smarter than that.

Crosby and Jordan are 2 of the highest paid DEs in football and only have hit 10+ sacks in only 2 of their last 4 years.

I’d take both of them over Reddick 10 times out of 10 with zero hesitation even though he may give you more sacks.

It is ... Sacks leads the charge.

- At least Jordan and Crosby did prove to have double digit sack numbers, so their respective teams know it's in their capability.

- The Cowboys were skeptical of giving Dlaw that first big (100+ million) contract and franchised thus so, (he was already facing health issues between back and shoulder concerns)
until he proved his stock with two back to back double digit sacks seasons.

- Now while Robert Quinn's 11 sacks brought him that 70 million contract, from the Bears, the Cowboys were skeptical in a one dimensional edge rusher
Some teams may want a " Fred Dean" dynamic situational edge rusher ... some teams don't want to invest quite that much in one dimensional edge rusher.
(BTW, didn't Quinn sign with the Eagles ?)

- Randy Gregory on the other hand, has never had a double digit sack season- in fact i don't think he's never had any more than 6 sacks in any career year.
But yet both the Cowboys .. and eventually Denver were prepared to award him a huge contract - based off their perception and expectation that Randy
would be a premium sack master.

 

[Zekeats]

Get a NT clogger like the Eagles have and switch to more of a 3-4 scheme with Parsons protected a little on the outside and the sack record will be his.

 

[quickccc]

Parsons had 13 QB hits from week 11 to the final game...

Study of All-22 shows that the Cowboys pass rush was intentionally scaled back in order to improve run defense. The changes started after Packers game when they gave up 207 yards rushing. The previous game they had given up 240 rushing vs the Bears.

They went to an old school read&react approach. It got more extreme once Hankins and LVE were out.

If we're scheming or scaling back to help stop the run, ..that takes away what was a strength to now what is a weakness. ..
i saw more stunting, twisting out of gaps, over pursuing, missed angles and players flat getting bullied off blocks than a read and react.
That suggests to me that this scheme is flawed.

If we are scaling back to where mere backup QBs are made to take advantage of us , cheme is flawed.
And it could rear it's ugly head even more so, come playoff time.

If were scaling back a defense for the sake of stopping a Fournette and the worst rushing attack, and that takes away a pass rushing strength that has to
have a chance vs GOAT., that suggests a flawed system.

Not good for a declining underachieving defense that should be growing to be at it's strongest down the stretch and heading into playoffs .

BTW, the absence of Hankins and LVE became more exposed, because our lack of quality depth at DT and LB were more exposed.

 

[visionary]

Philly signed LB Hasson Reddick as a free agent this offseason , and he gave them 16 sacks in just his first year with the Eagles.
That also led Hasson to be voted to his first Pro Bowl in his NFL career
16 sacks in a single season mark, is more than what Parsons has had in any of his 2 years in the NFL .(13 sacks in each year)

- More so, Riddick recorded 8 sacks in the Eagles six games in both December and January months, so no apparent wear & tear toll for Reddick.

- Parsons however currently has the look of a physical wear- tear pounding, and whether what end, or if up the gut middle,
he does not look to have near the same explosion and strength he had earlier in the year.

- Making it more interesting, Philly plays the 4-3 scheme,(and it's a creative- pressure- front 4-3)
Reddick is listed as 4-3 OLB, but the scheme in which he’s implemented has him blitzing and rushing off the edges or overloads in gaps, than being a full time DE.

- Parsons basically lining up on the edge as a DE than an off ball OLB. Taking on 330+ lbs OTs, on more frequent every down basis, more than he is dealing with TEs.

- Bottom line, i dunno how it is gonna play out with the Cowboys DC role and Dan Quinn next year .. or who will be the new DC,
but maybe the Cowboys need to greatly take a look at Reddick’s role and scheme with the Eagles, and make it more suitable scheme fit
for Parsons as well ?

It’s easy to understand
Philly has real DTs and we don’t
He plays LB and our guy plays DE which he shouldn’t
Teams can’t double Reddick for those reasons
Simple as that but we choose to ignore the issues

 

[BoyzBlaster]

Philly just knocked it out of the freaking park last off-season and I certainly recognized it. I just thought Hurts would hold the team back but I was dead wrong. Howie Roseman deserves GM of the year and saying that makes me sick.

I was with you on Hurts at the end of last year big time. I still can't believe how much he's improved.

 

[cnuball21]

It is ... Sacks leads the charge.

- At least Jordan and Crosby did prove to have double digit sack numbers, so their respective teams know it's in their capability.

- The Cowboys were skeptical of giving Dlaw that first big (100+ million) contract and franchised thus so, (he was already facing health issues between back and shoulder concerns)
until he proved his stock with two back to back double digit sacks seasons.

- Now while Robert Quinn's 11 sacks brought him that 70 million contract, from the Bears, the Cowboys were skeptical in a one dimensional edge rusher
Some teams may want a " Fred Dean" dynamic situational edge rusher ... some teams don't want to invest quite that much in one dimensional edge rusher.
(BTW, didn't Quinn sign with the Eagles ?)

- Randy Gregory on the other hand, has never had a double digit sack season- in fact i don't think he's never had any more than 6 sacks in any career year.
But yet both the Cowboys .. and eventually Denver were prepared to award him a huge contract - based off their perception and expectation that Randy
would be a premium sack master.

So why didn’t Reddick get 20+? If he’s a sack master he should be at the top of the contract chart?

Also - Gregory is case and point that teams look at more than just sack numbers and evaluate advanced pass rush stats.

As much as fans ignore run D for DEs it matters…a lot.

 

[JonesBoys]

Hmmm… Hargrave, Cox, and Graham’s contracts expire after this season. Hargrave has an 11.9 m cap hit for them next season. Cox 7.5m cap hit. Graham 9.6m. Want to tell me more of the wonderful job they did!!!

Did you not just see them overtake Dallas for the division in one off season and get the 1 seed? Dallas was clearly better than Philly last year it wasn't close and in one off season they just lapped Dallas. Getting guys like Reddik, AJ Brown, James Bradberry ect. also having a top 10 pick in next years draft. They hit on all their moves in the off season. You don't think they can manipulate those cap hits you just mentioned?
Is this Stephen Jones? You realize teams move the cap hits all around and still acquire talent?

 

[tm1119]

It’s not about Micah vs Reddick and it’s not about where they are lined up….it’s about the talent around them. The Eagles have Cox, Hargrave, Joseph, Suh, Davis and Milton Williams inside and we have Hankins, Osa and a bunch of hot garbage. Let me see Micah play on a defense where the DT’s not only demand double teams, but also win and collapse the pocket. It makes a HUGE difference.

 

[xwalker]

4-3 vs 3-4 formations have never been about requirements in alignment. Why is a CB a CB? Because he guards a WR, whether in man or Zone. He can chase him, or smother him, or engage him on a run play. If the WR suddenly lines up on the line of scrimmage, and the CB guards him on the inside, putting him in your box, is he now a Dlineman? No. Is he a LB? No, because that has nothing to do with it.

What dictates a 3-4 vs a 4-3 is how many linebackers vs down lineman you choose to have on the field. That’s it. When Reddick lines up in an upright technique on the edge, he could be pass rushing. Or he could be playing Joker and spying the QB if its a dude who’s a run threat. Or he could be playing zone on his side of the boundary. Or he could be preparing to engage the RB in man coverage. That is what makes him a linebacker.

When Josh Sweat lines up in the upright position, he is typically doing none of those other things. He is exclusively playing the run and rushing the passer. He is a 4th lineman, regardless of whether he lines up outside of your box, or at the nose, or next to the out of bounds line. Philadelphia plays a 4-3 personnel most of the time, Albeit sometimes in an irregular alignment as per your picture.

Most of this season the Cowboys starting alignment:
DLaw
DT
DT
Micah Parsons

Parsons can do anything that any 4-3 LB can do and more than most.
Play MLB. Check.
Cover elite pass catching RBs. Check.
Cover a #1 WR on a go route. Check.

Regardless of Parsons off-ball LB abilities, he has played as a standup DE most of this season.
- Last season even when edge rushing, he was doing it as a LB except in 4 games.

 

[CowboysLakerBamaFan]

Philly signed LB Hasson Reddick as a free agent this offseason , and he gave them 16 sacks in just his first year with the Eagles.
That also led Hasson to be voted to his first Pro Bowl in his NFL career
16 sacks in a single season mark, is more than what Parsons has had in any of his 2 years in the NFL .(13 sacks in each year)

- More so, Riddick recorded 8 sacks in the Eagles six games in both December and January months, so no apparent wear & tear toll for Reddick.

- Parsons however currently has the look of a physical wear- tear pounding, and whether what end, or if up the gut middle,
he does not look to have near the same explosion and strength he had earlier in the year.

- Making it more interesting, Philly plays the 4-3 scheme,(and it's a creative- pressure- front 4-3)
Reddick is listed as 4-3 OLB, but the scheme in which he’s implemented has him blitzing and rushing off the edges or overloads in gaps, than being a full time DE.

- Parsons basically lining up on the edge as a DE than an off ball OLB. Taking on 330+ lbs OTs, on more frequent every down basis, more than he is dealing with TEs.

- Bottom line, i dunno how it is gonna play out with the Cowboys DC role and Dan Quinn next year .. or who will be the new DC,
but maybe the Cowboys need to greatly take a look at Reddick’s role and scheme with the Eagles, and make it more suitable scheme fit
for Parsons as well ?

I'm not sure u can compare the two.

Certainly any eagle fan would trade Reddick for Parsons in a heartbeat, even as good a season as Reddick had.

Reddick is allowed more freedom because of the scheme they play, but you can't just say "have Parsons play Reddick's role", because you'd have to change every other defensive positions role too.

They really don't play a "4-3". It's more of the trendy hybrid defense, with just as much 3-4. It's really not just one thing or the other....which bill bellicheat popularized

 

[quickccc]

So why didn’t Reddick get 20+? If he’s a sack master he should be at the top of the contract chart?

Also - Gregory is case and point that teams look at more than just sack numbers and evaluate advanced pass rush stats.

As much as fans ignore run D for DEs it matters…a lot.

- Reddick has had 11 and 12 sacks seasons with both Carolina and Arizona.
Not surprising he left Cardinals as Arizona let the NFL's most productive sack leader in Chandler Jones, jet into free agency.

- Until the Pats signed free agent Matt Judon, they have been struggling with sacks and pressure on the QB since
surprisingly trading Chandler away.

- Double digit sack guys have and will always be in high demand as sacks lead and help set the stage.

- And what else did Gregory had to offer that was more important and more in demand than his pass rush ability ?
His rush ability and perceived potential got him that contract.

 

[cnuball21]

- Reddick has had 11 and 12 sacks seasons with both Carolina and Arizona.
Not surprising he left Cardinals as Arizona let the NFL's most productive sack leader in Chandler Jones, jet into free agency.

- Until the Pats signed free agent Matt Judon, they have been struggling with sacks and pressure on the QB since
surprisingly trading Chandler away.

- Double digit sack guys have and will always be in high demand as sacks lead and help set the stage.

- And what else did Gregory had to offer that was more important and more in demand than his pass rush ability ?
His rush ability and perceived potential got him that contract.

Right, so if Reddick is so good bc of sacks why didn’t he get more moeny? Sacks are end all be all right?

And Gregory hasn’t had multiple 10+ sack seasons so why did he get so much money?

 

[xwalker]

If we're scheming or scaling back to help stop the run, ..that takes away what was a strength to now what is a weakness. ..
i saw more stunting, twisting out of gaps, over pursuing, missed angles and players flat getting bullied off blocks than a read and react.
That suggests to me that this scheme is flawed.

If we are scaling back to where mere backup QBs are made to take advantage of us , cheme is flawed.
And it could rear it's ugly head even more so, come playoff time.

If were scaling back a defense for the sake of stopping a Fournette and the worst rushing attack, and that takes away a pass rushing strength that has to
have a chance vs GOAT., that suggests a flawed system.

Not good for a declining underachieving defense that should be growing to be at it's strongest down the stretch and heading into playoffs .

BTW, the absence of Hankins and LVE became more exposed, because our lack of quality depth at DT and LB were more exposed.

Consider the opponent & their QB in the final 6 games.
- Quinn wanted to stop the run including QB runs and dare those QBs to beat his defense with the pass.
- In game 1 vs Brady and the Bucs, Quinn focused on defending the pass which is why Fornette had success running.
- Quinn will again focus on pass defense vs the Bucs.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Most of this season the Cowboys starting alignment:
DLaw
DT
DT
Micah Parsons

Parsons can do anything that any 4-3 LB can do and more than most.
Play MLB. Check.
Cover elite pass catching RBs. Check.
Cover a #1 WR on a go route. Check.

Regardless of Parsons off-ball LB abilities, he has played as a standup DE most of this season.
- Last season even when edge rushing, he was doing it as a LB except in 4 games.

Right, when his responsibilities are as a DE, you are running a 4-3. Last year did you have 2 other DE’s out when Micah had more pass rushing LB responsibilities? Then it’s still a 4-3

 

[exciter]

Did you not just see them overtake Dallas for the division in one off season and get the 1 seed? Dallas was clearly better than Philly last year it wasn't close and in one off season they just lapped Dallas. Getting guys like Reddik, AJ Brown, James Bradberry ect. also having a top 10 pick in next years draft. They hit on all their moves in the off season. You don't think they can manipulate those cap hits you just mentioned?
Is this Stephen Jones? You realize teams move the cap hits all around and still acquire talent?

Lol, and the 3 players mentioned were already on the team, and are currently not for next year at a cap hit of 29m. This is how you manage a team if you have a childish need for instant gratification and it was the last year there will be football! Look at the Rams, last year he was toast of the town. He’s now contemplating quitting and 80% of the fan base want to tar and feather him. Oh, and sure they can manipulate them by resigning Cox 32, and Graham 35, Hargrave is going to be looking for big money. That just pushes the issue down the line!

 

[NFCBeasts]

Lol, 29m for 3 players who currently won’t be on the team and yet we still have a better record over the last 2 seasons. But hey, let’s manage our team with the mentality of a child with a need for instant gratification and as if this will be the last year there will be football forever and ever!

Yes because the last 27 years have been great for us … you know what i would take that cap hill for instant gratification if it gives us a chance to win something for once besides a division title in a weak division ( before this year)

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Philly signed LB Hasson Reddick as a free agent this offseason , and he gave them 16 sacks in just his first year with the Eagles.
That also led Hasson to be voted to his first Pro Bowl in his NFL career
16 sacks in a single season mark, is more than what Parsons has had in any of his 2 years in the NFL .(13 sacks in each year)

- More so, Riddick recorded 8 sacks in the Eagles six games in both December and January months, so no apparent wear & tear toll for Reddick.

- Parsons however currently has the look of a physical wear- tear pounding, and whether what end, or if up the gut middle,
he does not look to have near the same explosion and strength he had earlier in the year.

- Making it more interesting, Philly plays the 4-3 scheme,(and it's a creative- pressure- front 4-3)
Reddick is listed as 4-3 OLB, but the scheme in which he’s implemented has him blitzing and rushing off the edges or overloads in gaps, than being a full time DE.

- Parsons basically lining up on the edge as a DE than an off ball OLB. Taking on 330+ lbs OTs, on more frequent every down basis, more than he is dealing with TEs.

- Bottom line, i dunno how it is gonna play out with the Cowboys DC role and Dan Quinn next year .. or who will be the new DC,
but maybe the Cowboys need to greatly take a look at Reddick’s role and scheme with the Eagles, and make it more suitable scheme fit
for Parsons as well ?

No Parsons isn't warn down. Just unlucky. See below

Taking a closer look, not really, no. Parsons is still playing at a high level, but the production at the end of the play just hasn't quite been there. He had a 26.1% pass rush win rate during the first 11 games of the season, and he's up to a staggering 35.1% clip over the final six games. Likewise, he generated just over four initial pressures per game to start the season and is closer to five first pressures per game over the last six contests.

Parsons likely was running a little hot in terms of sacks versus his underlying pressure rates to begin the season and has been a little unlucky over the ensuing six weeks.