Pat Watkins question...

[Hostile]

Hell, I'd be grateful just see a few less last second "bombs" completed against us.

Echo that.

 

[Hostile]

Merton Hanks was only 5ft. 4 but his neck was 8 inches long.

His "chicken strut" used to make my neck hurt just watching it. Dude had big games against us though.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Height certainly didn't seem to hurt Sean Taylor's stock when he was taken with a Top 5 draft pick. Watkins was an invisible man for a good portion of the season, and while he will make the occasional pick by outjumping people for a ball thrown up for grabs by a desperate, harrassed QB, he really doesn't seem to have great instincts or feel for the position.

I think he has a chance to be a very good special teams player, but the fact that many teams were looking at him to convert to WR screams to me "He's a better athlete than football player, and we really don't know what to do with him."

I think it's more to do with players 6'5 aren't FS.

Granted Watkins wasn't the player as a senior that he was as a Junior but quite frankly the whole FSU defense looked like crap to me for the most part this past season.

 

[adbutcher]

Merton Hanks was only 5ft. 4 but his neck was 8 inches long.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Height certainly didn't seem to hurt Sean Taylor's stock when he was taken with a Top 5 draft pick. Watkins was an invisible man for a good portion of the season, and while he will make the occasional pick by outjumping people for a ball thrown up for grabs by a desperate, harrassed QB, he really doesn't seem to have great instincts or feel for the position.

I think he has a chance to be a very good special teams player, but the fact that many teams were looking at him to convert to WR screams to me "He's a better athlete than football player, and we really don't know what to do with him."

IR, I'm confused... I thought you didn't want to spend a high pick or a lot of money on a FS, right? So we didn't... But we got a guy who has produced pretty well at the position (so no conversion time necessary) for a big-time program, and who has the athletic ability to be a good player.

Watkins definitely won't be Ed Reed, but I think he can be above average... Which will be miles better than Killer, Lynn Scott, Tony Dixon, etc.

Or do you just not like this player in particular?

 

[InmanRoshi]

I don't particularly like the player, but I like the value he provided where he was drafted. I think he can help the team in some ways, especially on special teams. I like the thought of having him back there in nickel to provide the corners backside help on tall WR's with great ballskills like Randy Moss and Plaxico Burress, but I don't think we necessarily have the FS position solved for the next 8 years and I don't think he's an exceptional playmaker. The original poster asked why he fell to the 5th round. I just answered the question with my opinion.

 

[Chief]

I called Watkins a bigger, faster Michael Downs.

They're similar in that Downs was tall and thin (6-3, 190) and was at his best in zone coverage, where he could just patrol deep. I think it's the same thing with Watkins -- he's not going to be able match up man-to-man with quick receivers, but he can slam the door on the type of nonsense that happened against the Commanders. He'll get on the field this year, IMO, especially in certain situations that call for deep patrol.

Downs, a quiet, studious type, also was overlooked in the draft.

I think they're a lot of similarities and I'm thrilled that Dallas could get this guy ... especially that late.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I think it's more to do with players 6'5 aren't FS.

Granted Watkins wasn't the player as a senior that he was as a Junior but quite frankly the whole FSU defense looked like crap to me for the most part this past season.

Mikey, I've read several of your posts where you seem really high on him as are others. Why is that? Just curious.

I have no idea about him. Hadn't heard of him before Sunday.

 

[AmericasTeam31]

Watching the tape in the "Image Zone" was really impressive. Most of all though, was the fact that he wasn't cocky, he made his plays and got off the field. No jumping around, taunting, or any of that crap. Int. the ball run it back and go to the bench. Bring your lunch pale....

 

[braw]

Height certainly didn't seem to hurt Sean Taylor's stock when he was taken with a Top 5 draft pick. Watkins was an invisible man for a good portion of the season, and while he will make the occasional pick by outjumping people for a ball thrown up for grabs by a desperate, harrassed QB, he really doesn't seem to have great instincts or feel for the position.

I think he has a chance to be a very good special teams player, but the fact that many teams were looking at him to convert to WR screams to me "He's a better athlete than football player, and we really don't know what to do with him."

6' 2 and 6' 5 that is a huge difference at FS. In basketball thats a point guard vs a Forward.

Look at the stats how can a FS make more tackles than a LB and DT. That means that the rb or wr always beat the 1st line of defense. The LB should always have more tackles in that type of defense yet your FS does thats not good. Maybe thats why he might have problems in coverage because always looking in the backfield and help the DLine and LB.Thats what the stats tell me.

 

[AmericasTeam31]

Height certainly didn't seem to hurt Sean Taylor's stock when he was taken with a Top 5 draft pick. Watkins was an invisible man for a good portion of the season, and while he will make the occasional pick by outjumping people for a ball thrown up for grabs by a desperate, harrassed QB, he really doesn't seem to have great instincts or feel for the position.

I think he has a chance to be a very good special teams player, but the fact that many teams were looking at him to convert to WR screams to me "He's a better athlete than football player, and we really don't know what to do with him."

That's what were supposed to do anyway. Harass the QB and make him either throw it away, or up for grabs. That's usually a good philosophy for a defense...

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Mikey, I've read several of your posts where you seem really high on him as are others. Why is that? Just curious.

I have no idea about him. Hadn't heard of him before Sunday.

I've just kinda followed his career some.

Just like several have pointed out he was a better junior than he was a senior but I look at the FSU defense and there was a bunch of that going on this past season. But he was 3rd on the team in tackles in '05 and 1st in picks.

He's better in pass coverage than he is against the run. And I knew (we all knew!) that we would need a pass-coverage FS at some point and that's why I've kept my eye on him.

The guy's size/speed ratio is outstanding.

But I'm it was his height that kept teams from drafting him earlier. I think people looked at him and said, "6'5" guys can't be free safeties at the NFL level" and blacklisted him on the spot. They looked at him as a WR or even a LB.

The people that suggest he can't cover don't have a clue. He doesn't have the nimbleness to cover a 5'9" guy like a blanket but in a league full of 6'2-6'4 receivers he'll do just fine. He has a good hip/turn and run. Plus I'm guessing once you build up his strength a little and with those long arms, when he jams a receiver at the line of scrimmage they'll stay jammed.

It's a great pick and fills a huge need for us.

He'll be very intimidating back there for opposing QB's.

One scout said he has athletic ability that wasn't tapped at FSU and if he gets his head on straight could be a contributor.

Both of his parents hold doctorates... the kid isn't a dumb-dumb. I think he's going to rise to the challenge of being snubbed in draft and do some great things for us.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

If anyone is interested, here is an interview with him I found while looking for something else... Sounds like a fairly low-key kid for whom football is important... Which Parcells seems to favor.

http://71.225.192.135:8000/content/040906se.pls
(mp3)

http://71.225.192.135:8080/ramgen/040906se.rm
(Real)

(Never mind the weird opening... The interview starts about a minute and 15 seconds in. )

 

[WoodysGirl]

I've just kinda followed his career some.

Just like several have pointed out he was a better junior than he was a senior but I look at the FSU defense and there was a bunch of that going on this past season. But he was 3rd on the team in tackles in '05 and 1st in picks.

He's better in pass coverage than he is against the run. And I knew (we all knew!) that we would need a pass-coverage FS at some point and that's why I've kept my eye on him.

The guy's size/speed ratio is outstanding.

But I'm it was his height that kept teams from drafting him earlier. I think people looked at him and said, "6'5" guys can't be free safeties at the NFL level" and blacklisted him on the spot. They looked at him as a WR or even a LB.

The people that suggest he can't cover don't have a clue. He doesn't have the nimbleness to cover a 5'9" guy like a blanket but in a league full of 6'2-6'4 receivers he'll do just fine. He has a good hip/turn and run. Plus I'm guessing once you build up his strength a little and with those long arms, when he jams a receiver at the line of scrimmage they'll stay jammed.

It's a great pick and fills a huge need for us.

He'll be very intimidating back there for opposing QB's.

One scout said he has athletic ability that wasn't tapped at FSU and if he gets his head on straight could be a contributor.

Both of his parents hold doctorates... the kid isn't a dumb-dumb. I think he's going to rise to the challenge of being snubbed in draft and do some great things for us.

Thanks for the info, Mikey. Most people seem to think it was a solid pick. I just found it interesting, cuz u seem to be more high on him than others.

I can't wait to we get some feedback about these guys from the rookie minicamp. We're finally gonna get some real football news. Woohoo!

 

[InmanRoshi]

6' 2 and 6' 5 that is a huge difference at FS. In basketball thats a point guard vs a Forward.

Watkins officially measured at 6'4.6". Taylor officially measured at 6'2.5". I don't think the difference in height alone is so significant that one is deemed perfectly qualified by scouts to be a top 5 pick with a double digit signing bonus and the other plummets 3-4 rounds. It had a lot to do with his play on the field.

 

[braw]

Watkins officially measured at 6'4.6". Taylor officially measured at 6'2.5". I don't think the difference in height alone is so significant that one is deemed perfectly qualified by scouts to be a top 5 pick with a double digit signing bonus and the other plummets 3-4 rounds. It had a lot to do with his play on the field.

Answer me one question. Why did the FS have more tackles than the DT(Bunkley), LB(Sims and Wimbley). When you answer that question then you will know why he went from 4 ints and 10 passes broken up in 04 to be second to Mcfadden who had 11 to 3 ints and 5 passes broken up in 05 he was 3rd to Carter had 12.

He also went from 56 tackles in 04 to 77 in 05. That means he had to run support more for the diaper dandys( Bunkley, Sims, and Wimbley).

 

[TonyTone]

Thanks chocolatelab. it has been a long time no hear.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Answer me one question. Why did the FS have more tackles than the DT(Bunkley), LB(Sims and Wimbley). When you answer that question then you will know why he went from 4 ints and 10 passes broken up in 04 to be second to Mcfadden who had 11 to 3 ints and 5 passes broken up in 05 he was 3rd to Carter had 12.

He also went from 56 tackles in 04 to 77 in 05. That means he had to run support more for the diaper dandys( Bunkley, Sims, and Wimbley).

Why do you think its so uncommon for a safety to lead the team in tackles? It happens all the time. Rodney Harrison has lead the Patriots, a Superbowl caliber defense with multiple Pro Bowl linebackers, in tackles every year he's been there other than last year when he was hurt in game 3. Do you know who the Cowboys all time leading tackler is? Defensive tackles and defensive linemen rarely rack up major tackle totals because they aren't allowed to flow to the football. Outside linebackers are generally unable to make tackles on plays run away from them or in the deep passing game. Tackle statistics are rather meaningless to me anyway. You can get a tackle awarded to you by a charitable, homer statkeeper for standing around a pile, it doesn't mean you're a playmaker.

I would hope every player drafted over the weekend were near, or close to near, the top of their individual team's stat totals. These guys are supposed to be the best of the best. I don't find being 2nd or 3rd on your college team's individual totals particularly earth shattering.

 

[braw]

Why do you think its so uncommon for a safety to lead the team in tackles? It happens all the time. Rodney Harrison has lead the Patriots, a Superbowl caliber defense with multiple Pro Bowl linebackers, in tackles every year he's been there other than last year when he was hurt in game 3. Do you know who the Cowboys all time leading tackler is

Then your answer tells me the type of player that you used at the position of FS(Harrison and Woodson) who leads his team in tackles translate into good pros. Give me an example where a Worthless FS that leads is team in tackles and ints and is not worth being a starting FS.

Your answer leads me to believe that Watkins will pan out in the NFL. When his stats are better that the 1st round picks just like harrison had more tackles than his LB and DT.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

too many people look at measurables (height, bench press, 40, shuttle, etc)

it's not like Watkins had poor measureables