Payton vs Garrett

[George]

Coaching changes mean starting over. Starting over means that you probably waste another two seasons of Tony's career.

Garrett isn't going anywhere people. Move on.

Normally I would agree. But, some teams such as Atlanta and Minnesota refute your statement. The real problem is that a new coach will be stifled by the GM.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Ok well we'll have to disagree.

There is plenty of evidence out there that a new coaching regime can win immediately.

I don't know why you think a coach like Sean Payton would come in and struggle to win initially with this roster.

I think maybe you have gotten suckered into this whole process thing that Garrett preaches but it really doesn't exist in todays NFL. You should be able to win fairly quickly. Especially with a QB like Romo in place.


Also, Parcells got us to the playoffs in 1 year with an awful roster. IMO, this roster has plenty of tools to go to or win a Superbowl.

That's OK. We can disagree here, I have no problem with that. Here is what I will say, we are not talking about winning. We are talking about winning a championship. Further, we are not really talking about what any of us would do. We are talking about what Jerry will do.

He will not replace Garrett with Payton IMO. If we were just talking about winning, Garrett would be winning, right now, with a healthy Tony. This would not even be a discussion if not for the injury. Jerry, IMO, is not making drastic changes to a HC that he would not have control over IMO. I don't see it.

 

[Apollo Creed]

One is a good NFL HC that has a title.

The other would be lucky to get an OC gig if he got fired today.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

And yet it happens more often than you seem to want to admit.

If the Cowboys hired a good coach, there is no reason this team couldn't contend for the division and make a playoff run in the 2016 and to act like it's an impossibility is just bizarre Garrett support.

I assume you have some sort of statistic you base this statement on? You actually have no idea what I seem to "want" to admit. Does it happen? Sure it happens but not often.

 

[iceberg]

How well would Payton do with Weeden and Cassel?

i'm sure he can show weeden the door just as easily as the next guy, if weeden even lasts through the year much less this week.

 

[Amy50632]

Bruce Ariens took over a 5-11 Arizona team and went 10-6 his first year.

Chip Kelly took over a 4-12 Eagles team and went 10-6 his first year.

Sean Payton went 10-6 in his first year in New Orleans after the team went 3-13 the year before.

The idea that this would essentially have to be a "start over" if we fired Garrett and we'd have to bumble along while learning a new system is pure poppycock.

Yup, Andy Reid took a 2-14 Chiefs team and went 11-5 his first year also.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Probably going to be wasted regardless.

That's very possible.

 

[CATCH17]

That's OK. We can disagree here, I have no problem with that. Here is what I will say, we are not talking about winning. We are talking about winning a championship. Further, we are not really talking about what any of us would do. We are talking about what Jerry will do.

He will not replace Garrett with Payton IMO. If we were just talking about winning, Garrett would be winning, right now, with a healthy Tony. This would not even be a discussion if not for the injury. Jerry, IMO, is not making drastic changes to a HC that he would not have control over IMO. I don't see it.

IMO Dallas is more like the Tampa Bay team that Gruden took to the Superbowl in 1 year. We just need that extra edge from our coaching staff that they do not bring.

I do agree that Jerry won't get rid of JAson. JAson is probably the safest coach in the NFL.

I don't know what he can do to get himself fired.

I do know that he offers absolutely nothing as our head coach though and 0-7 without Romo proves that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Mostly true, but I look at the Chicago Bears and that situation would seem to cry out that the right coach can make meaningful changes with results in short order.

The problem, WP, is that the right coach would be a guy who has a vision and who would demand complete control. I just don't see that happening in Dallas at this point.

 

[Sydla]

I assume you have some sort of statistic you base this statement on? You actually have no idea what I seem to "want" to admit. Does it happen? Sure it happens but not often.

What statistic do I need? You said that hiring a new coach is a rebuild. There's evidence that shows it doesn't have to be a rebuild, especially when a new coach would be inheriting an elite QB, top flight WR and talented OL.

At least you now concede is does happen.

I agree that Jones won't make a change. But that's just shortsightedness and loyalty run amok on his part.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Harbaugh didn't take much time to get to a championship, then a SB

He took more then two seasons and he had a tone of very nice picks available to him in the draft. San Fran tore it down and started over. We won't do that IMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

What statistic do I need? You said that hiring a new coach is a rebuild. There's evidence that shows it doesn't have to be a rebuild, especially when a new coach would be inheriting an elite QB, top flight WR and talented OL.

At least you now concede is does happen.

I agree that Jones won't make a change. But that's just shortsightedness and loyalty run amok on his part.

So if you agree, then we are in agreement about the possibility of a rebuild being zero. Is that a fair statement?

Without that kind of approach, it's not happening and the other thing that's not happening is a coach like Payton coming to Dallas to be a yes man to Jerry. If Payton doesn't have full control, he won't be coming IMO. Jerry knows this as well. Payton to Dallas is not going to be a reality because of that IMO.

 

[CATCH17]

How well would Payton do with Weeden and Cassel?

Good enough to win 2 or 3 games out of 7 imo.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I forgot about Harbaugh.

2010, 49ers went 6-10.

2011, in his first year, 49ers went 13-3.

So again, the idea that a coaching change commits us to some poor seasons and a "rebuild" is a stretch.

Who said this? This is certainly not what I said. The goal has to bring a championship. If you bring in a Payton, is he going to keep a Linehan as OC? Is he going to keep a Marinelli or is he going to hire a guy like Ryan? There will be change. You saying this is all well and good but it's not what I said.

At the end of the day, Jerry has to give up control to bring in a guy like Payton. Are you saying that you see that happening?

 

[CATCH17]

So if you agree, then we are in agreement about the possibility of a rebuild being zero. Is that a fair statement?

Without that kind of approach, it's not happening and the other thing that's not happening is a coach like Payton coming to Dallas to be a yes man to Jerry. If Payton doesn't have full control, he won't be coming IMO. Jerry knows this as well. Payton to Dallas is not going to be a reality because of that IMO.

It sucks so much being a Cowboy fan.


I would just like to have Payton here so we have a coach that gives us a legit edge on game day and situationally could draw up some better plays than heaving it up to Dez with the game on the line.

 

[Sydla]

He took more then two seasons and he had a tone of very nice picks available to him in the draft. San Fran tore it down and started over. We won't do that IMO.

Wut?

 

[utrunner07]

Help me understand why Garrett survives this season. If Payton is available/former Superbowl coach with history of coaching Romo, why not? More proven coaching resume than the clapper... Serious question.

Honestly this whole "draft" Payton stuff reeks of the grass is greener, just like how Matt was supposed to lead this team so much better than Weeden. The problems with this franchise are multifactorial, plugging in Payton for Garrett I don't think gets us much at this point. Big changes need to happen with Ownership/GM, Coaching and players, small changes or just addressing a single issue are not going to get us very far.

 

[Sydla]

So if you agree, then we are in agreement about the possibility of a rebuild being zero. Is that a fair statement?

Without that kind of approach, it's not happening and the other thing that's not happening is a coach like Payton coming to Dallas to be a yes man to Jerry. If Payton doesn't have full control, he won't be coming IMO. Jerry knows this as well. Payton to Dallas is not going to be a reality because of that IMO.

I am not even talking about Payton, personally. I just reject the idea that if you bring in a new coach, it's signals a rebuild and that we can't be a good team in 2016.

I find that logic ridiculous.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It sucks so much being a Cowboy fan.


I would just like to have Payton here so we have a coach that gives us a legit edge on game day and situationally could draw up some better plays than heaving it up to Dez with the game on the line.

I get it man. It's just that I have a hard time defending hard with something that I know, in my mind, is unrealistic. I just don't see the setting for a change like that and because of this, it's a wasted effort to an extent. It's not that I don't agree that a new head coach might not be able to come in here and improve things. It's that I see no compelling argument that would force a decisions like this for Jerry.

 

[Aven8]

I forgot about Harbaugh.

2010, 49ers went 6-10.

2011, in his first year, 49ers went 13-3.

So again, the idea that a coaching change commits us to some poor seasons and a "rebuild" is a stretch.

Don't forget a woeful Michigan team this year that hasn't done anything in years and is a fluke play away from being undefeated. The dude is a miracle worker! Just look at Kapernick for evidence!