Payton vs Garrett

[ABQCOWBOY]

I am not even talking about Payton, personally. I just reject the idea that if you bring in a new coach, it's signals a rebuild and that we can't be a good team in 2016.

I find that logic ridiculous.

If that's your opinion, that's fine. But if you really want to make changes to this organization that will have long term impacts, it has to be cultural change. At least, that is my opinion.

 

[RS12]

I don't see how they couldn't pay whatever they want. When you have the most valuable billion dollar team in the World.

Jerry can afford it. Just saw the other day he broke ground on a BILLION dollar shopping mall. He wont because at this stage in Romo's career he doesnt want to start all over because he thinks they are close (I dont). Also got a strong feeling "head politician, the clapper" is playing the "if only" card constantly.

 

[Iron_Man]

Coaching changes mean starting over. Starting over means that you probably waste another two seasons of Tony's career.

Garrett isn't going anywhere people. Move on.

Romo will not win a Superbowl with Garrett either. What a waste!

 

[birdwells1]

Help me understand why Garrett survives this season. If Payton is available/former Superbowl coach with history of coaching Romo, why not? More proven coaching resume than the clapper... Serious question.

I really thought that Jerry thought long and hard about going after Payton during his suspended season. If you recall, the Cowboys started the season 3-5 and there were whispers of Payton becoming the next head coach because there was an "out" in his contract. But just as always Garrett did just enough to keep his job by finishing the season 5-3 so Jerry decided to stay the course. When you have a young, super bowl winning hc out there available, you just don't choose to stay with a guy that's "learning on the job".

 

[Sydla]

Don't forget a woeful Michigan team this year that hasn't done anything in years and is a fluke play away from being undefeated. The dude is a miracle worker! Just look at Kapernick for evidence!

Technically, they are a fluke play from being a one loss team. UM lost to Utah earlier.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Jerry can afford it. Just saw the other day he broke ground on a BILLION dollar shopping mall. He wont because at this stage in Romo's career he doesnt want to start all over because he thinks they are close (I dont). Also got a strong feeling "head politician, the clapper" is playing the "if only" card constantly.

This is it. I believe that Jerry sees this as a situation where Tony, with Garrett, give him a better chance of winning a Championship. Now, is this reality or not? That is certainly debatable and could be argued either way but the only argument that counts in this situation is Jerry's. I believe Jerry believes this and I believe that Jerry sees a future with a younger QB on the team with Stephen running the show. JMO

 

[Sydla]

If that's your opinion, that's fine. But if you really want to make changes to this organization that will have long term impacts, it has to be cultural change. At least, that is my opinion.

But at this point, I am not looking for long term changes to the organization. I am trying to salvage the last few years of Romo's career at this point. It's going down the tubes with Garrett in charge.

 

[Aven8]

Technically, they are a fluke play from being a one loss team. UM lost to Utah earlier.

My bad you're right! But theu are one heck of a team, a total rebound. Wouldn't be surprised if they beat Ohio St.

 

[Sydla]

Oh and the notion that the 49ers tore it down and rebuilt is a stretch. They went to the NFC Title game in Harbaugh's first year as head coach. They were a talented team that needed a new direction. Harbaugh gave them that new direction.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

But at this point, I am not looking for long term changes to the organization. I am trying to salvage the last few years of Romo's career at this point. It's going down the tubes with Garrett in charge.

And how do you bring in a decent Coach by just doing this? What good Coach is going to come to Dallas with the intentions of salvaging Romo's career for a few years?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Oh and the notion that the 49ers tore it down and rebuilt is a stretch. They went to the NFC Title game in Harbaugh's first year as head coach. They were a talented team that needed a new direction. Harbaugh gave them that new direction.

No, thats exactly what the 49ers did. They are actually doing it again right now.

 

[Sydla]

No, thats exactly what the 49ers did. They are actually doing it again right now.

They did no such thing. What's your definition of tore it down?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

They brought in a HC who had complete and total control over the team. He started over by doing it his way. They changed personnel. They changed scheme, they changed the way they played football. They went from historically being a WC offense to a power running team. They went out and replaced a starting QB who went 14-4 on the season, the year before. Do you see that happening here in Dallas?

 

[cds99]

The franchise QB being out is far from the only issue with this team...

Amen. Everybody always coming back to romo. This team is a far cry from just needing there starting qb back. Didn't cassell come in when brady went down and still took them to the playoffs? Garrett vs. Belichick, legend vs. High school coach.

 

[Sydla]

They brought in a HC who had complete and total control over the team. He started over by doing it his way. They changed personnel. They changed scheme, they changed the way they played football. They went from historically being a WC offense to a power running team. They went out and replaced a starting QB who went 14-4 on the season, the year before. Do you see that happening here in Dallas?

Alex Smith was the returning QB from 2010 and was the starter for Harbaugh in his first year when the 49ers went 13-3 and made the NFC title game.

It wasn't until 2012 that Kaepernick played. But not because they wanted to make a change. Kap was forced to play after Smith got a concussion and missed two games in the middle of the year. Kap played well in relief and it created a controversy.

Further, yes they changed their offensive scheme to more power running but guess how many starters from teh 2010 west coast offense team started for the 2011 power running 49ers?

10. The only change was at C.

They also switched a 3-4 but made little to no changes in the front seven - the core players were the same - Sopoaga, McDonald, Smith, Brooks, Bowman, Willis.......... all on the team before Harbaugh took over. Only major changes the 49ers made on defense was in the secondary.

So the idea that the 49ers tore it down is quite a stretch. They kept the core and most of the starting depth chart in place and just brought in a competent coach.

 

[LittleD]

Who said this? This is certainly not what I said. The goal has to bring a championship. If you bring in a Payton, is he going to keep a Linehan as OC? Is he going to keep a Marinelli or is he going to hire a guy like Ryan? There will be change. You saying this is all well and good but it's not what I said.

At the end of the day, Jerry has to give up control to bring in a guy like Payton. Are you saying that you see that happening?

He did cede some control to Parcells because he had too. The TO thing is the issue that led to Parcells thinking enough meddling
from Jerry and I'm out of here.

 

[Idgit]

Just my opinion, but I think the "start over" mantra is now seeping out because the Garrett defenders are slowly realizing they don't have solid footing anymore to stand on with regards to his competency. So the next argument in the battle is the "start over" angle or "the grass isn't always greener" defense.

A lot depends on which replacement coach we're talking about. Last I checked, Sean Payton isn't available. Neither are Arians or Harbaugh.

If we're talking a potential upgrade to the coach we already have, you consider it. I'm sure, though, that my list of who's likely to be a clear upgrade differs a lot from your own. That's where the rub comes in.

If we're talking Mike Mularkey, Jim Tomsula, Jay Gruden, or Mike Pettine, well, no thanks. Sean Payton is a really good coach. If he's available and you don't consider the move in Dallas, you're not doing your job as GM. He's got skins, a relationship with Romo already, he's liked by the organization and will come in with the respect of the locker room. Dallas is probably at the top of his list of potential vacancies if he shakes loose. The only questions I have about him myself regard the rumors of some of his personal problems, including the possible dependency issues, but that's a matter for the organization to look into themselves.

Then again, I don't believe the problems in Dallas are with the coaching staff right now. I'm perfectly content to see how the rest of the season plays out and to take it from there. Right now, Garrett's on fairly firm footing, but that could maybe change depending what happens when Tony comes back.

 

[Sydla]

A lot depends on which replacement coach we're talking about. Last I checked, Sean Payton isn't available. Neither are Arians or Harbaugh.

If we're talking a potential upgrade to the coach we already have, you consider it. I'm sure, though, that my list of who's likely to be a clear upgrade differs a lot from your own. That's where the rub comes in.

If we're talking Mike Mularkey, Jim Tomsula, Jay Gruden, or Mike Pettine, well, no thanks. Sean Payton is a really good coach. If he's available and you don't consider the move in Dallas, you're not doing your job as GM. He's got skins, a relationship with Romo already, he's liked by the organization and will come in with the respect of the locker room. Dallas is probably at the top of his list of potential vacancies if he shakes loose. The only questions I have about him myself regard the rumors of some of his personal problems, including the possible dependency issues, but that's a matter for the organization to look into themselves.

Then again, I don't believe the problems in Dallas are with the coaching staff right now. I'm perfectly content to see how the rest of the season plays out and to take it from there. Right now, Garrett's on fairly firm footing, but that could maybe change depending what happens when Tony comes back.

I can buy into this line of thinking......... the part about seeing where this season goes. I just believe that Romo is so good he covers up for a lot of the shortcomings of this staff. But at some point, you need your coaches to come up big to win games even with your star QB and I just don't think this staff is competent enough to do that.

 

[Idgit]

I can buy into this line of thinking......... the part about seeing where this season goes. I just believe that Romo is so good he covers up for a lot of the shortcomings of this staff. But at some point, you need your coaches to come up big to win games even with your star QB and I just don't think this staff is competent enough to do that.

We're never going to agree on this staff, I don't think. Players like Romo do make a lot of people look smarter though, that's for sure. I would hope Garrett and the rest of the staff would be among the first people to acknowledge that.

 

[Dodger12]

Just my opinion, but I think the "start over" mantra is now seeping out because the Garrett defenders are slowly realizing they don't have solid footing anymore to stand on with regards to his competency. So the next argument in the battle is the "start over" angle or "the grass isn't always greener" defense.

This idea that Garrett was slowly rebuilding the roster over a 5 year period was always a fantasy drawn up by people to defend the 8 and 8 seasons. Garrett couldn't even win just one game with "his" players. Garrett is done and he has been for some time. He can't control the locker room or the players, not even a relatively nominal guy like Beasley who has absolutely no skins on the wall. That's BS.