Payton vs Garrett

[TheDude]

How many Super Bowls has Ariens or Harbaugh or Kelly even won? I mean, that's the point right? Garrett, with Tony would be enjoying a winning season right now. Bring in any of those guys here in Dallas and not only will they not last, they will not bring a championship IMO.

How with a straight face can you make that statement about Arians or Harbaugh?

Arians
- 2012 took over for Pagano and led the Colts to a 11-5 record with a rookie QB and made the playoffs
- 2013 turned a 5-11 Cardinal team to a 10-6 team starting 3-4 and ending 7-2
- 2014 goes 11-5 and gets to the playoffs
- 3+ year record and counting 37-16 (69.8%)

Harbaugh

- took over a 6-10 team and led them to 13-3 in the first year w/ Alex Smith
- started first 3 years going NFC Championship, SB, NFC Championship, has a 69.8% winning pct. and has excelled everywhere he coached

What in the above can make you say that they have an equal or lessor resume than Garrett and provide a lower probability of providing a championship?

 

[Idgit]

How with a straight face can you make that statement about Arians or Harbaugh?

Arians
- 2012 took over for Pagano and led the Colts to a 11-5 record with a rookie QB and made the playoffs
- 2013 turned a 5-11 Cardinal team to a 10-6 team starting 3-4 and ending 7-2
- 2014 goes 11-5 and gets to the playoffs
- 3+ year record and counting 37-16 (69.8%)

Harbaugh

- took over a 6-10 team and led them to 13-3 in the first year w/ Alex Smith
- started first 3 years going NFC Championship, SB, NFC Championship, has a 69.8% winning pct. and has excelled everywhere he coached

What in the above can make you say that they have an equal or lessor resume than Garrett and provide a lower probability of providing a championship?

For the record, I like both of those guys better than Garrett myself. Though I think Harbaugh would be a really bad fit in Dallas with Jerry. Those are two great coaches, though.

 

[TheDude]

For the record, I like both of those guys better than Garrett myself. Though I think Harbaugh would be a really bad fit in Dallas with Jerry. Those are two great coaches, though.

I think it would be fine, people said the same about Parcells, but that worked out and Parcells said it wasnt a hindrance. It may not last like JJ, but it would have been immediate kick n the *** and woul not have been 3 straight 8-8s - with either, IMO

 

[Idgit]

I think it would be fine, people said the same about Parcells, but that worked out and Parcells said it wasnt a hindrance. It may not last like JJ, but it would have been immediate kick n the *** and woul not have been 3 straight 8-8s - with either, IMO

Maybe. Harbaugh's a lot like Jimmy was. He burns bright, but doesn't still around very long. One of the things I like most about Garrett is how capable he is of working well with Jerry Jones, which is not an easy task.

Either way, it's moot. Harbaugh's a great coach, though.

 

[TheDude]

Maybe. Harbaugh's a lot like Jimmy was. He burns bright, but doesn't still around very long. One of the things I like most about Garrett is how capable he is of working well with Jerry Jones, which is not an easy task.

Either way, it's moot. Harbaugh's a great coach, though.

I dont really know what that means to work well with Jerry. The abortion that was Brad Johnson, Weeden shows either Garrett has less clue than an average fan about QBs or that he was not influential enough to get what he thought he needed. It seemed like he wanted DeMarco - didnt get that. Jerry still makes more dumb comments about coaching and players.

Additionally, I do not think Dooley and Wilson are worth anything. Dooley has always been a failure at every coaching stop and just a used nepotism and favor to get jobs. Wilson is atrocious.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

How with a straight face can you make that statement about Arians or Harbaugh?

Arians
- 2012 took over for Pagano and led the Colts to a 11-5 record with a rookie QB and made the playoffs
- 2013 turned a 5-11 Cardinal team to a 10-6 team starting 3-4 and ending 7-2
- 2014 goes 11-5 and gets to the playoffs
- 3+ year record and counting 37-16 (69.8%)

Harbaugh

- took over a 6-10 team and led them to 13-3 in the first year w/ Alex Smith
- started first 3 years going NFC Championship, SB, NFC Championship, has a 69.8% winning pct. and has excelled everywhere he coached

What in the above can make you say that they have an equal or lessor resume than Garrett and provide a lower probability of providing a championship?

For the record, I didn't make a statement. I asked a question. You may feel free to answer it if you wish. How many have they won?

 

[TheDude]

He took more then two seasons and he had a tone of very nice picks available to him in the draft. San Fran tore it down and started over. We won't do that IMO.

What are you talking about? He went 13-3 in year 1 and to the championship and a botched punt from 2 SB in his first 2 years.

 

[TheDude]

For the record, I didn't make a statement. I asked a question. You may feel free to answer it if you wish. How many have they won?

Wrong there was a declarative statement

How many Super Bowls has Ariens or Harbaugh or Kelly even won? I mean, that's the point right? Garrett, with Tony would be enjoying a winning season right now. Bring in any of those guys here in Dallas and not only will they not last, they will not bring a championship IMO.

So to play along for you - None.

But I will ask you a few questions,
- to win a the SB, would you agree you have to make the playoffs and even a SB? How many playoffs has Garrett managed compared to Arians and Harbaugh?
- Has Garrett been to a Championship or SB?
- Did Arians or Harbaugh have a QBs as good and esatblished as Romo?

I get why coaches with tons of skins on the the wall, a track record of immediate success where they have been need to be besmirched and cut down to level the Garret accomplishment.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Wrong there was a declarative statement



So to play along for you - None.

But I will ask you a few questions,
- to win a the SB, would you agree you have to make the playoffs and even a SB? How many playoffs has Garrett managed compared to Arians and Harbaugh?
- Has Garrett been to a Championship or SB?
- Did Arians or Harbaugh have a QBs as good and esatblished as Romo?

I get why coaches with tons of skins on the the wall, a track record of immediate success where they have been need to be besmirched and cut down to level the Garret accomplishment.

What are you talking about? He went 13-3 in year 1 and to the championship and a botched punt from 2 SB in his first 2 years.

But he did not win. To take that a bit further, he left San Francisco because he wanted a free hand running the team and the two could not agree. Again I will ask, why would he come to Dallas? Do you see that happening in Dallas?

The question is not who I would have wanted to Coach here in Dallas or even who I might want now. I am not a Garrett fan boy. I never have been. He was not my choice when he came here. All of that being said, you have to be realistic with what can and will happen. I don't see Garrett leaving. I don't see Jerry firing him. The only circumstance where I could see that happening, and really there are two, is if Garrett demanded more control or complete control (which he will not do IMO) or if Tony wanted to see that happen (which again, I don't see).

Any Coach who comes here and wants to change things will demand full control. That's not going to happen IMO. If a really good coach did come here without that, they would likely suffer the same fate.

 

[TheDude]

But he did not win. To take that a bit further, he left San Francisco because he wanted a free hand running the team and the two could not agree. Again I will ask, why would he come to Dallas? Do you see that happening in Dallas?

The question is not who I would have wanted to Coach here in Dallas or even who I might want now. I am not a Garrett fan boy. I never have been. He was not my choice when he came here. All of that being said, you have to be realistic with what can and will happen. I don't see Garrett leaving. I don't see Jerry firing him. The only circumstance where I could see that happening, and really there are two, is if Garrett demanded more control or complete control (which he will not do IMO) or if Tony wanted to see that happen (which again, I don't see).

Any Coach who comes here and wants to change things will demand full control. That's not going to happen IMO. If a really good coach did come here without that, they would likely suffer the same fate.

But he won more in the postseason than Garrett that counts for something and the free market is the scoreboard.

The "why would he come to Dallas?" is irrelevant - might as well use the Belichick proxy in that case. No one saw Parcells coming here, but he did. But there is proof out there that certain coaches do bring fast turnaround - even without a true franchise QB

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

But he won more in the postseason than Garrett that counts for something and the free market is the scoreboard.

The "why would he come to Dallas?" is irrelevant - might as well use the Belichick proxy in that case. No one saw Parcells coming here, but he did. But there is proof out there that certain coaches do bring fast turnaround - even without a true franchise QB

I don't dispute that. I think there are probably a few very good options out there but the question is, which one would succeed in Dallas under current circumstances and what would be the reasonable chances of Garrett to get fired and replaced by one of those options?

 

[TheDude]

I don't dispute that. I think there are probably a few very good options out there but the question is, which one would succeed in Dallas under current circumstances and what would be the reasonable chances of Garrett to get fired and replaced by one of those options?

Thats a different question. The issue was should he have been hired in the first place? Was there even a real search? Rivera was brought in. But the decision was made - just like decisions to stick with Weeden. The difference is identifying when a mistake is made, when do you rectify.

At the end of the day, nothing will change until 4 years after Romo. I think that will be the bar that needs to be hit before Garrtt goes anywhere

 

[khiladi]

How well would Payton do with Weeden and Cassel?

Probably could win at least 1 game... Is that too much to ask?

 

[khiladi]

Payton and the Saints got screwed when he was effectively benched by Goodell for the year...

 

[khiladi]

One thing would be sure with Payton...

The Cowboys would be much more exciting to watch...

 

[khiladi]

And one more thing:

The timeline to win with Romo is short... This isn't about long-term vision right now, this is about making the necessary changes on game-day to win now.. We can afford a couple losing seasons, after Romo is gone and we are stuck looking for a QB to replace him...

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Thats a different question. The issue was should he have been hired in the first place? Was there even a real search? Rivera was brought in. But the decision was made - just like decisions to stick with Weeden. The difference is identifying when a mistake is made, when do you rectify.

At the end of the day, nothing will change until 4 years after Romo. I think that will be the bar that needs to be hit before Garrtt goes anywhere

No. The question was, why should Garrett continue to be around. It went on to ask, if Payton is available........


That's the discussion I have been commenting on.

 

[cml750]

For the record, I like both of those guys better than Garrett myself. Though I think Harbaugh would be a really bad fit in Dallas with Jerry. Those are two great coaches, though.

this might be the first time I am 100% in agreement with you!!!

 

[TellerMorrow34]

If Payton become available the one thing I feel pretty certain of is that we're going to have a whole lot of very pissed off fans when the Cowboys are not players to get him.

 

[Naruto]

Everyone talking about replacing Coach Garrett are concerned about the wrong coach. The coach the Cowboys need to replace is and has always been Coach Jerry.

With Coach Jerry running the show the organization is limited to who they can hire to really coach the team. The new hire will have to abide by, parrot or believe in Coach Jerrys philosphy. This philosophy gets flashy players on the field in multiple positions but leaves gaping holes in many others and is void of discipline.

Coach Jerry's teams will have amazing years every now and then(i.e. no injuries) but crumble in the playoffs when the true grind kicks in.

This is our life until Jerry is six feet under. We just have to hope the flashy good luck years pay-off...which they havent(Romo bobbled FG snap, '07 Giants game, last year)