Pete Rose bet on baseball as player

[jobberone]

We are not going to continue to deal with harassing other members. A few times is a barb. Once it occurs over a long enough time it is harassment; see rule #9.

The next person that does it and they know what I mean will get benched without warning. No further PMs will be sent. Liking said posts keeps you on the radar. I suggest you get and stay off it.

 

[big dog cowboy]

His career as a player he gambled on games and as a coach he gambled on games. The evidence that has recently been found shows he lied he bet while playing the game and that is a major no no. who you bet on does not matter even betting on your own team.

Exactly. I'm spending the week up here and the locals are all fired up over this. Some get it but most make up so many excuses it makes your head spin.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Exactly. I'm spending the week up here and the locals are all fired up over this. Some get it but most make up so many excuses it makes your head spin.

I hear ya.. Hear them.

I like to go through both sides of the story though.


The black sox.... Wasn't it a manifestation of not making any money, owners treating them like crap. This allowed the, to be set up to be bribed. Not saying it's right but if they were being fair and gave these guys a living then maybe it doesn't happen? I don't know...

With Rose. It sucks. Sucks that he tarnished his legacy. Not his career. His stats are legendary. It was his doing. Just like the other cheaters in history. Like arod, he totally fudged his legacy. His numbers would have been pretty great anyway. He just ensured that their is always a question mark about certain stats.

As someone said. Shoeless Joe is out. As are others from that team I guess. Rose is out. Forever I guess.

I just think they should make a one time "pardon" or exception.... Whatever you want to call it. Ket them in.

Reinforce, re-state, reiterate the "no gambling" rules. No future pardons. One strike and you are out.

I think it would be good for baseball. Baseball is not gushing with integrity. We are all human and make mistakes.

If I was commish. That's what I would do.

Someone on radio said that they cheaters in Greece get a statue as you enter the games.... So people entering stadium know they are passing the cheaters. Future cheaters WOULD NOT want a statue there.

 

[joseephuss]

I think it would be good for baseball. Baseball is not gushing with integrity. We are all human and make mistakes.

If I was commish. That's what I would do.

Someone on radio said that they cheaters in Greece get a statue as you enter the games.... So people entering stadium know they are passing the cheaters. Future cheaters WOULD NOT want a statue there.

I don't think baseball or it's integrity hinges on whether Pete Rose gets in the Hall of Fame or not.

Pete Rose is human and has made mistakes. Several mistakes. His problem is that he compounded his mistakes with habitual lies. Much like Tom Brady turned a small issue into a bigger one with his lies, Peter Rose turned his major issue(gambling) into an even bigger one with his lies upon lies. I don't think Rose would have gotten a lifetime ban if he would have admitted his faults a long time ago. He dragged everything out and still does. I think it will take his death before baseball ever allows him into the HoF.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I don't think baseball or it's integrity hinges on whether Pete Rose gets in the Hall of Fame or not.

Pete Rose is human and has made mistakes. Several mistakes. His problem is that he compounded his mistakes with habitual lies. Much like Tom Brady turned a small issue into a bigger one with his lies, Peter Rose turned his major issue(gambling) into an even bigger one with his lies upon lies. I don't think Rose would have gotten a lifetime ban if he would have admitted his faults a long time ago. He dragged everything out and still does. I think it will take his death before baseball ever allows him into the HoF.

Agreed.

I just think that once he was caught and then lied.... The "habitual" kicked in... Habitual gambler, habitual liar...etc

 

[Rogah]

I just think they should make a one time "pardon" or exception.... Whatever you want to call it. Ket them in.

Reinforce, re-state, reiterate the "no gambling" rules. No future pardons. One strike and you are out.

That was the rule that was put in place for most of the past century. Major League Baseball literally requires every single clubhouse to post the following rule printed below. Why you think they should pardon Rose and then say "ok guys, from now on, we reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealy mean it!" makes very little sense.

(d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or
employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in
connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared
ineligible for one year.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall
bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which
the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

"ok guys, from now on, we reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealy mean it!"

Yes! That's what I would do. That's what I want.

Have you ever wanted to give someone a pass?

 

[Rogah]

Yes! That's what I would do. That's what I want.

Have you ever wanted to give someone a pass?

I can't say I've ever wanted to give someone a pass for breaking the cardinal rule of a sport. Maybe we should reinstate Tim Donaghy while we're at it?

Fact is sports fans are generally tolerant of a player cheating to get ahead. HGH, pine tar on the arm, corked bats, restrictor plate violations, a hockey stick curved too much, equipment violations, goalie pads too wide, etc, etc. With the occasional exception, none of the above generates national headlines. The guy takes a punishment, then life goes on. Even the steroid scandal was only as big as it was because of how widespread it was. As serious as it is, it is still not something you get banned for from a first offense.

What you fail to understand is that sports fans cannot and will not ever tolerate a player secretly benefitting financially in deliberately losing a game. Fans can tolerate a team tanking for a high draft pick, but they cannot tolerate a player (or group of players) deliberately losing to receive some sort of secret payoff from gambling interests. If people ever question things like: "Did that manager leave his pitcher in too long because he messed up, or because he had $100,000 bet on the other team? Did that quarterback throw that interception because he messed up, or because he had $100,000 bet on the other team?" then that is the death knell of a sport.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I can't say I've ever wanted to give someone a pass for breaking the cardinal rule of a sport. Maybe we should reinstate Tim Donaghy while we're at it?

Fact is sports fans are generally tolerant of a player cheating to get ahead. HGH, pine tar on the arm, corked bats, restrictor plate violations, a hockey stick curved too much, equipment violations, goalie pads too wide, etc, etc. With the occasional exception, none of the above generates national headlines. The guy takes a punishment, then life goes on.

What you fail to understand is that sports fans cannot and will not ever tolerate a player secretly benefitting financially in deliberately losing a game. Fans can tolerate a team tanking for a high draft pick, but they cannot tolerate a player (or group of players) deliberately losing to receive some sort of secret payoff from gambling interests. If people ever question things like: "Did that manager leave his pitcher in too long because he messed up, or because he had $100,000 bet on the other team? Did that quarterback throw that interception because he messed up, or because he had $100,000 bet on the other team?" then that is the death knell of a sport.

Oh, so for you it's conditional. I understand.
Equipment violations as in.....?

 

[Rogah]

Oh, so for you it's conditional. I understand.

Of course it's conditional. The punishment should fit the crime and there are degrees of offenses. It would be ridiculous to compare gambling against your own team to, say, a pitcher having a dab of pine tar on their neck.

Equipment violations as in.....?

What part of "corked bat, a hockey stick curved too much, goalie pads too wide" are you not understanding?

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Of course it's conditional. The punishment should fit the crime and there are degrees of offenses. It would be ridiculous to compare gambling against your own team to, say, a pitcher having a dab of pine tar on their neck.
What part of "corked bat, a hockey stick curved too much, goalie pads too wide" are you not understanding?

So pine tar really isnt all that big of a deal as far as cheating goes?

 

[big dog cowboy]

So pine tar really isnt all that big of a deal as far as cheating goes?

In the case of George Brett and his bat, no.

Having the pine tar extend up 2 " more than allowed didn't give George any advantage whatsoever.

For a pitcher, that is a completely different situation.

 

[Rogah]

So pine tar really isnt all that big of a deal as far as cheating goes?

Seriously. Let it go.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Of course it's conditional. The punishment should fit the crime and there are degrees of offenses. It would be ridiculous to compare gambling against your own team to, say, a pitcher having a dab of pine tar on their neck.
What part of "corked bat, a hockey stick curved too much, goalie pads too wide" are you not understanding?

I understand that you and your views and opinions are lopsided. Biased depending on who/what you are fighting for.

Cheating is cheating.
Breaking rules is breaking rules.

My point which you continuously fail to see is.... Or just don't want to see .....is.... Forgive him for his mistakes. It's simple. Let him.

Like so many other athletes. People can forgive, give them their just due.... And still not forget.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

The difference is: Rose obviously has/had a sickness/addiction.

I think eventually he will be posthumously let into a Hall of Fame.

He should never be let in

 

[Rogah]

I understand that you and your views and opinions are lopsided. Biased depending on who/what you are fighting for.

Congratulations, you just described 100% of sports fans in the country. However, in this particular discussion, I have no horse in the race. My opinion on Pete Rose is not based on any team loyalties for or against him.

Cheating is cheating.
Breaking rules is breaking rules.

Your statements imply that all cheating and all rule breaking is equivalent. Do you really believe that someone who gets caught with a corked bat deserves the same punishment as the people who got paid to deliberately lose a World Series? Is a speeding ticket the same as murder?

Please answer my question and demonstrate that even you are not ridiculous enough to believe "breaking rules is breaking rules." There are clearly varying degrees of infractions in both sports and in life.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Congratulations, you just described 100% of sports fans in the country. However, in this particular discussion, I have no horse in the race. My opinion on Pete Rose is not based on any team loyalties for or against him.
Your statements imply that all cheating and all rule breaking is equivalent. Do you really believe that someone who gets caught with a corked bat deserves the same punishment as the people who got paid to deliberately lose a World Series? Is a speeding ticket the same as murder?

Please answer my question and demonstrate that even you are not ridiculous enough to believe "breaking rules is breaking rules." There are clearly varying degrees of infractions in both sports and in life.

In this race? I understand.

Clearly, I am granting a full pardon REGARDLESS of the "infraction" and it's "degree".

 

[Rogah]

In this race? I understand.

Clearly, I am granting a full pardon REGARDLESS of the "infraction" and it's "degree".

Yes your position on Pete Rose is clear but, as expected, you couldn't even answer a very simple question I asked. I wonder why that is?

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Yes your position on Pete Rose is clear but, as expected, you couldn't even answer a very simple question I asked. I wonder why that is?

You need to read up on betting in baseball from 1900 to 1919.
Who did it... And who still got into hall of fame... In some cases FIRST BALLOT.

Your question = irrelevant.

I am not going to hold your hand with everything here. Focus please.

 

[Rogah]

You need to read up on betting in baseball from 1900 to 1919.
Who did it... And who still got into hall of fame... In some cases FIRST BALLOT.

If you have a point to make, feel free to make it. It does not fall upon me to research a point you are trying to make.

Your question = irrelevant.

You're the one who said "breaking rules is breaking rules". There is nothing irrelevant about my question asking you to clarify that statement.

Fact is you are ignoring my question because you either answer it one way and look extremely foolish by saying all transgressions deserve the same punishment or you answer the other way and have to abandon your ridiculous "breaking rules is breaking rules" mantra. It is not my fault you've painted yourself into a corner, so you should direct your little tantrum at yourself, not me.

Man up for once and answer this very simple question: Do you really believe that someone who gets caught with a corked bat deserves the same punishment as the people who got paid to deliberately lose a World Series?

(Here comes the cowardly refusal to answer a simple question in 3.... 2........ 1.................................