PFF - Zeke is not a top 25 player under 25 years of age

[percyhoward]

If Percy isn't a fan of the stats, something ain't right. Go ahead and close up and clock out boys, this thread is done.

My problem with it is that it's not really a stat -- it's a grade. PFF's actual "stats" are great, but you have to separate the wheat from the chaff. And that goes for anything, really.

That said, there are people saying they don't believe anything PFF says. While PFF brings that on themselves completely, to ignore any and all information based solely on the source is a shortcut to thinking. You kinda have to address each piece of information critically before forming an opinion, no matter who the information came from.

 

[John813]

All I can is I disagree.

Should be fairly obvious he is.

 

[InTheZone]

Here is an all inclusive list of running backs in the history of the NFL that ran for more yards per game in their career than Zeke.

Jim Brown

It's hard to judge different eras, but considering how much faster and bigger defenses are now compared to then and how much offenses are tailored to passing I think Zekes stat should be more impressive...but I guess not top 25 under 25 worthy because logic...

 

[Stash]

More proof that PFF and all the poindexters who try to covert football into a mathematical formula are complete trash.

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Ezekiel Elliott is not one of the NFL’s top players under 25-years old, allow that sink in for a moment. The reigning rushing champion isn’t good enough to be on a list that includes top players in the league under 25-years old.

Now realize this isn’t a fact, just an opinion of Pro Football Focus who put out their annual top 25 players under 25 years of age at the start of the upcoming season. Elliott did not make the list, but he did manage to make the “just missed” portion.

Mark Chichester and PFF cited their reasoning:

“There’s no doubt that Ezekiel Elliott is one of the top players at his position, but it’s hard to overlook the fact that his production is, in large part, thanks to the offense that Dallas has built around him. Over the last three years, Elliott ranks first in rushing attempts (868), rushing yards (4048), rushing yards after contact (2567) and first down conversions (219). However, his three-year rushing grade of 80.2 ranks ninth among the 36 backs with at least 300 attempts in that span, while his 0.119 missed tackles forced per attempt ranks tied for 27th among the same group.”

Elliott gets dinged for having the offense flow through him, a preposterous line of thinking. Downgrading a player that is so good that the team builds around him is silly. Punishing him for still leading the league when the opposition clearly focuses their defensive game plan around stopping him is absurd.

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...llas-cowboys-top-25-under-25-2019-nfl-season/

 

[GMO415]

It's an opinion not a fact.

 

[Stash]

I don’t know how PFF can even try to justify that ranking. If you do your “analytics” and Zeke isn’t a top 5 RB (at worst) based on those analytics, you need to re-evaluate your process.

Exactly right. They only serve to indict their credibility with crap like this. Numbers are great and all, but when you don't actually know what you're looking for and what constitutes success and failure, they're worthless. Someone should have checked their work before it was released to the public.

This serves to do nothing more than to damage PFF's credibility.

 

[jrumann59]

More proof that PFF and all the poindexters who try to covert football into a mathematical formula are complete trash.

-

Ezekiel Elliott is not one of the NFL’s top players under 25-years old, allow that sink in for a moment. The reigning rushing champion isn’t good enough to be on a list that includes top players in the league under 25-years old.

Now realize this isn’t a fact, just an opinion of Pro Football Focus who put out their annual top 25 players under 25 years of age at the start of the upcoming season. Elliott did not make the list, but he did manage to make the “just missed” portion.

Mark Chichester and PFF cited their reasoning:

“There’s no doubt that Ezekiel Elliott is one of the top players at his position, but it’s hard to overlook the fact that his production is, in large part, thanks to the offense that Dallas has built around him. Over the last three years, Elliott ranks first in rushing attempts (868), rushing yards (4048), rushing yards after contact (2567) and first down conversions (219). However, his three-year rushing grade of 80.2 ranks ninth among the 36 backs with at least 300 attempts in that span, while his 0.119 missed tackles forced per attempt ranks tied for 27th among the same group.”

Elliott gets dinged for having the offense flow through him, a preposterous line of thinking. Downgrading a player that is so good that the team builds around him is silly. Punishing him for still leading the league when the opposition clearly focuses their defensive game plan around stopping him is absurd.

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...llas-cowboys-top-25-under-25-2019-nfl-season/

So if they did not "design" an offense around him they would write an article on how Dallas is wasting the talent of top 25 player under 25 talent by not tailoring an offense around him. Got it

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Honestly, our OL is overrated. It’s those Simple Jack fans like PFF that think it’s the reason why Zeke is the RB he is. I’m not trying to knock our OL but it wasn’t even close to what it was in 2016.

Serious question for you to consider. How often does Zeke get more than what is blocked.

Hint: Not often.

 

[Screw The Hall]

My problem with it is that it's not really a stat -- it's a grade. PFF's actual "stats" are great, but you have to separate the wheat from the chaff. And that goes for anything, really.

That said, there are people saying they don't believe anything PFF says. While PFF brings that on themselves completely, to ignore any and all information based solely on the source is a shortcut to thinking. You kinda have to address each piece of information critically before forming an opinion, no matter who the information came from.

I dare you use critical thinking around here. Snarky comments and speaking in absolutes is the only path to greatness. You’re better than this Percy.

 

[SportsGuru80]

Ok cool story bro...

 

[Plankton]

 

[bayeslife]

Serious question for you to consider. How often does Zeke get more than what is blocked.

Hint: Not often.

You are so wrong lmao

Zeke is asked to run into 9 man fronts and still produces.

 

[percyhoward]

I dare you use critical thinking around here. Snarky comments and speaking in absolutes is the only path to greatness. You’re better than this Percy.

They say laws are like sausages -- better not to see the way they're made. That's what PFF's player grading system reminds me of. Even though their multi-colored heatmaps give the illusion that there's some kind of science behind them, the real objective is to create product, which means they have to keep the grading system as simple as possible so that all the graders can pump out results for all the games fast.

Steve Palazzolo actually told me this in a tweet: "Two identical passes -- one going for 12 yards (tackled immediately) and one going for 40 (12 air yards and 28 yards after catch) -- the difference in total yards has nothing to do with the QB." In other words, it's based completely on the math, and doesn't factor in the QB's decision-making process at all. That means it actually rewards the QB who makes the wrong decision, because that extends the drive and gives him the opportunity for more (perfect) short passes.

 

[Sydla]

You are so wrong lmao

Zeke is asked to run into 9 man fronts and still produces.

This is an exaggeration.

According to NextGen stats, Elliott faced 8 or more men in the box 24.67% of the time, which wasn't close to the highest percentage for TBs who ran 150 times or more.

 

[DasSchnitzel]

More proof that PFF and all the poindexters who try to covert football into a mathematical formula are complete trash.

-

Ezekiel Elliott is not one of the NFL’s top players under 25-years old, allow that sink in for a moment. The reigning rushing champion isn’t good enough to be on a list that includes top players in the league under 25-years old.

Now realize this isn’t a fact, just an opinion of Pro Football Focus who put out their annual top 25 players under 25 years of age at the start of the upcoming season. Elliott did not make the list, but he did manage to make the “just missed” portion.

Mark Chichester and PFF cited their reasoning:

“There’s no doubt that Ezekiel Elliott is one of the top players at his position, but it’s hard to overlook the fact that his production is, in large part, thanks to the offense that Dallas has built around him. Over the last three years, Elliott ranks first in rushing attempts (868), rushing yards (4048), rushing yards after contact (2567) and first down conversions (219). However, his three-year rushing grade of 80.2 ranks ninth among the 36 backs with at least 300 attempts in that span, while his 0.119 missed tackles forced per attempt ranks tied for 27th among the same group.”

Elliott gets dinged for having the offense flow through him, a preposterous line of thinking. Downgrading a player that is so good that the team builds around him is silly. Punishing him for still leading the league when the opposition clearly focuses their defensive game plan around stopping him is absurd.

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...llas-cowboys-top-25-under-25-2019-nfl-season/

I agree. Analytics people want so bad to do what they did with baseball and create highly accurate statistical models of performance.

In my opinion, from a statistics perspective, the problem is that the parameters between football players are linked whereas in baseball they are not. Baseball is the most solo sport of all team sports because a guy has to hit or field a ball by himself. In football, every decision made by one guy impacts the rest of the team in real time. Zeke is the perfect example of what I'm talking about.

I think analytics in football becomes nebulous at best when you go from team or unit level down to individual players.

 

[Fletch]

More proof that PFF and all the poindexters who try to covert football into a mathematical formula are complete trash.

-

Ezekiel Elliott is not one of the NFL’s top players under 25-years old, allow that sink in for a moment. The reigning rushing champion isn’t good enough to be on a list that includes top players in the league under 25-years old.

Now realize this isn’t a fact, just an opinion of Pro Football Focus who put out their annual top 25 players under 25 years of age at the start of the upcoming season. Elliott did not make the list, but he did manage to make the “just missed” portion.

Mark Chichester and PFF cited their reasoning:

“There’s no doubt that Ezekiel Elliott is one of the top players at his position, but it’s hard to overlook the fact that his production is, in large part, thanks to the offense that Dallas has built around him. Over the last three years, Elliott ranks first in rushing attempts (868), rushing yards (4048), rushing yards after contact (2567) and first down conversions (219). However, his three-year rushing grade of 80.2 ranks ninth among the 36 backs with at least 300 attempts in that span, while his 0.119 missed tackles forced per attempt ranks tied for 27th among the same group.”

Elliott gets dinged for having the offense flow through him, a preposterous line of thinking. Downgrading a player that is so good that the team builds around him is silly. Punishing him for still leading the league when the opposition clearly focuses their defensive game plan around stopping him is absurd.

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...llas-cowboys-top-25-under-25-2019-nfl-season/

You get a much needed like for this. I do count on RS to give the best mfing RB in the world his due. Yes, he carries the offense.

 

[visionary]

I consider you one of my closest friends.

Ouch, that'll show him

 

[Proof]

I pay for PFF and they usually have good analytics when it comes to every other position other than RB. For whatever reason they dont emphasize blocking, or yards after contact but have an infatuation with making tacklers miss. So Zeke who grinds and turns a 1 yard gain into a 5 yard gain but doesnt make anybody miss is almost a negative to them but if saquon makes 2 ppl miss and has a loss of 2 on the play it's a positive.

I’m just trying to figure out how he’s a product of the line, but ranks first in yards after contact.

 

[DHCBF66]

More proof that PFF and all the poindexters who try to covert football into a mathematical formula are complete trash.

-

Ezekiel Elliott is not one of the NFL’s top players under 25-years old, allow that sink in for a moment. The reigning rushing champion isn’t good enough to be on a list that includes top players in the league under 25-years old.

Now realize this isn’t a fact, just an opinion of Pro Football Focus who put out their annual top 25 players under 25 years of age at the start of the upcoming season. Elliott did not make the list, but he did manage to make the “just missed” portion.

Mark Chichester and PFF cited their reasoning:

“There’s no doubt that Ezekiel Elliott is one of the top players at his position, but it’s hard to overlook the fact that his production is, in large part, thanks to the offense that Dallas has built around him. Over the last three years, Elliott ranks first in rushing attempts (868), rushing yards (4048), rushing yards after contact (2567) and first down conversions (219). However, his three-year rushing grade of 80.2 ranks ninth among the 36 backs with at least 300 attempts in that span, while his 0.119 missed tackles forced per attempt ranks tied for 27th among the same group.”

Elliott gets dinged for having the offense flow through him, a preposterous line of thinking. Downgrading a player that is so good that the team builds around him is silly. Punishing him for still leading the league when the opposition clearly focuses their defensive game plan around stopping him is absurd.

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...llas-cowboys-top-25-under-25-2019-nfl-season/

Not sure who is worse, PFF or Bloggin the Boys!

 

[the_h0wey]

More proof that PFF and all the poindexters who try to covert football into a mathematical formula are complete trash.

-

Ezekiel Elliott is not one of the NFL’s top players under 25-years old, allow that sink in for a moment. The reigning rushing champion isn’t good enough to be on a list that includes top players in the league under 25-years old.

Now realize this isn’t a fact, just an opinion of Pro Football Focus who put out their annual top 25 players under 25 years of age at the start of the upcoming season. Elliott did not make the list, but he did manage to make the “just missed” portion.

Mark Chichester and PFF cited their reasoning:

“There’s no doubt that Ezekiel Elliott is one of the top players at his position, but it’s hard to overlook the fact that his production is, in large part, thanks to the offense that Dallas has built around him. Over the last three years, Elliott ranks first in rushing attempts (868), rushing yards (4048), rushing yards after contact (2567) and first down conversions (219). However, his three-year rushing grade of 80.2 ranks ninth among the 36 backs with at least 300 attempts in that span, while his 0.119 missed tackles forced per attempt ranks tied for 27th among the same group.”

Elliott gets dinged for having the offense flow through him, a preposterous line of thinking. Downgrading a player that is so good that the team builds around him is silly. Punishing him for still leading the league when the opposition clearly focuses their defensive game plan around stopping him is absurd.

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...llas-cowboys-top-25-under-25-2019-nfl-season/

I really like a lot of what they put out, but this is just dumb. Anyone that uses common sense knows that he absolutely belongs on that list