News: PFT: Judge finds Marriott blatantly violated court order

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MarcusRock

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That timeline differs from the initial one. In fact, a lot of things differ from the initial release.

The investigator from the NFL reviews it and calls in other NFL personnel that tells him he has to leave and they escort him out of the hotel? First I;d heard they were that involved early on in his removal.

Doesn't it seem odd there's nothing filed against the NFL or NFLN? They review the video and interview the woman, they escorted him out and sent him home. However, as far as we know did not suspend him or dock his pay and that doesn't speak to what they think.
Mike's not going to file anything against the NFL "at this time." I'd think he'd need to get let go first and not be happy with the terms of any settlement, etc. before he'd go after them. To me, the NFL just wanted to not make a sponsor more upset by challenging them given what they saw. Even if they thought it wasn't a big deal, the hotel had already determined they wanted Mike to leave so the NFL wasn't going to push that. But if they thought it was nothing they probably wouldn't have removed him from coverage like they did. Maybe.
 

CouchCoach

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Michael Irvin's 105.3 The Fan interview can be found here: https://www.audacy.com/1053thefan/s...n-speaks-on-incident-involving-woman-at-hotel

I clipped the two-minute four second commentary of the incident in his words and uploaded it to YouTube:



The Differences Between a Criminal Case and a Civil Case

By FindLaw Staff | Legally reviewed by Joseph Bui, Esq. | Last updated December 23, 2022

<snip>


The Standard of Proof​

Crimes must generally be proved "beyond a reasonable doubt," whereas civil cases are proved by lower standards of proof, such as "the preponderance of the evidence."

The term, "the preponderance of evidence," refers to how it was more likely than not that something occurred in a certain way.

The difference in these two standards points to how civil liability is considered less blameworthy and how the punishments are less severe.

What the case may be, in a set of criminal proceedings, is that what is known as "the burden of proof" falls upon the prosecutor.

Under this burden, the defendant has no obligation to prove their innocence. At the same time under this burden, the standard of proof the prosecutor must meet is much higher than in civil cases. It's much higher because the defendant's freedom is at risk and also because the defendant is facing a more severe penalty. After all, criminal convictions, from felonies to misdemeanors, tend to carry heavier consequences for a defendant than civil penalties do in civil suits.

Read more

___________________________

In my opinion, the prosecutor will focus on Irvin's self-admit lack of memory about the events due to drinking against him. Irvin's defense will object that their client's non-recollection does not dispute the video evidence. However, I doubt the judge will advise the jury to disregard what Irvin said since it will be a matter of public record. Thus, the prosecution can argue Irvin did what Marriott claims despite what may be shown in the video since the employee gave her account of the event and Irvin cannot deny what happened based on her testimony because he does not remember what happened during their encounter.

The defense's entire case hinges on the video evidence. I hope for Irvin's sake that the video displays their interaction in crystal clear terms. The case would not be tried in a criminal count after all. Lingering doubt works in the prosecution's favor moreso than for the defense in civil court.

According to the latest, the "they" that moved him was the escort from the NFL after they were called in by the investigator. I am wondering why they sent an escort from the NFL for him?
 

CowboyFrog

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They have been added pieces to it as they go public. First it is inappropriate and they add harassing to that and then they get specific with what he said and have a witness to the end of the conversation.

What did the investigator from the NFL find that warranted the decision to escort him out of the hotel? And according to the new timeline decided pretty quickly, Tuesday, to send him home but as of that call into 105.3 Wednesday morning, Irvin didn't know or he wasn't forthcoming with it.

And let's not forget this was SB week for the NFL and NFLN and no one was in the mood to handle this stuff.
But why, they are the defendents .... why would they not just send everything and kill this case without putting thier name out there like this...we are not the only ones seeing this. Marriot is not JJ and thinking "any press is good press" on this one. Your getting sued for 100 million you have the evidence to kill the case before it goes to trial, what could it possibly help a nation wide establishment to be getting negative press while the law team sets a trap for the other team.
 

DallasEast

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According to the latest, the "they" that moved him was the escort from the NFL after they were called in by the investigator. I am wondering why they sent an escort from the NFL for him?
Good question if true.
 

stiletto

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It's very telling that these allegations were only made after Irvin's press conference and not before. They could have filled a motion in response before the deadline to release the video. They didn't. They blatantly disregarded the judges order according to the judge.

Not buying it.

Irvin's team has to be fairly careful though. Marriot is a $9 billion company. I doubt they have stupid lawyers, pretty sure it would be a mistake to think that. I'm sure they are holding some things back on purpose and will 100% unleash it if they have to when the time is right. To me is undoubtable. Happened on their property.
 

MarcusRock

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so do you think publicly is going to matter when this or if this goes to court? If the video is 90 seconds and MIke's camp shows 30 seconds, they will get crushed in the media.
They didn't get crushed in the media when Irvin's lawyer told a fat lie to start his press conference: "Michael has obviously not come out publicly about this 'til now."

Was that statement true?
 

CowboyFrog

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It's very telling that these allegations were only made after Irvin's press conference and not before. They could have filled a motion in response before the deadline to release the video. They didn't. They blatantly disregarded the judges order according to the judge.

Not buying it.
again i just dont see the "Good" in holding the trump card video if they have it.... if your Marriott you dont want a national personality comming out on TV and saying the things Irvin said about your hotel, win or lose there will be patrons that take this and hold them to it.
 

CouchCoach

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Mike's not going to file anything against the NFL "at this time." I'd think he'd need to get let go first and not be happy with the terms of any settlement, etc. before he'd go after them. To me, the NFL just wanted to not make a sponsor more upset by challenging them given what they saw. Even if they thought it wasn't a big deal, the hotel had already determined they wanted Mike to leave so the NFL wasn't going to push that. But if they thought it was nothing they probably wouldn't have removed him from coverage like they did. Maybe.
The decision to send him home was made Tuesday, according to the new info, so the call into 105.3 Wednesday morning would not have been the trigger I thought it was.

I had also assumed that the "we" he used about being in hiding included the NFLN but if they'd already decided, that "w" could have included his agent who was involved according to the lawyer with trying to run interference with the hotel.
 

CouchCoach

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again i just dont see the "Good" in holding the trump card video if they have it.... if your Marriott you dont want a national personality comming out on TV and saying the things Irvin said about your hotel, win or lose there will be patrons that take this and hold them to it.
And if they are withholding that kind of evidence, they just think this judge is mad now.
 

MarcusRock

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The latest is it is 1.5 minutes according to Irvin's lawyer in that pc.

And if he really said what they say he did, why did she go up to him? From his "will return when you're working", I gather she was off the clock. I had wondered, from the beginning, if she was addressing him in some official capacity and they said she came from behind the desk to approach him. Why? Did she just want to meet him?
Read the accounts again CC. There were 2 interactions according to Marriott. Irvin's witnesses said Mike was headed to the elevators and a woman called to him and Mike walked back. Marriott claims Irvin called to the accuser to talk to her and then they moved to an area in the lobby. Then they say a second staffer walked to Mike to talk to him and then Mike went to the elevators. So according to Marriott, there's video of 2 separate encounters with staff in a short period. Someone is being shady/not forthcoming with their side of events for sure.
 

stiletto

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again i just dont see the "Good" in holding the trump card video if they have it.... if your Marriott you dont want a national personality comming out on TV and saying the things Irvin said about your hotel, win or lose there will be patrons that take this and hold them to it.
Could give away hotel physical security system details, etc. There could be reasons not to divulge other evidence. I think it will depend on how far down the road it goes. I doubt very seriously a $9 billion corp is bluffing. I am sure if they didn't have ample evidence they would've crush any kind of accusations from their employee. Also probably afraid the woman would sue them in this day and time. We'll see I guess.
 

Merlin

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Irvin's team has to be fairly careful though. Marriot is a $9 billion company. I doubt they have stupid lawyers, pretty sure it would be a mistake to think that. I'm sure they are holding some things back on purpose and will 100% unleash it if they have to when the time is right. To me is undoubtable. Happened on their property.
Well not obeying the judges order was not very bright, so there's that. Good attorneys don't upset the judge for no good reason.
 

stiletto

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Well not obeying the judges order was not very bright, so there's that. Good attorneys don't upset the judge for no good reason.

Uhh... there can be security reasons for not divulging all info/surveillance that some local judge asks for. Was it a Federal judge? Some surveillance in hotels, etc is under Federal protection. We don't know everything.
 

CowboyFrog

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I would think after this IF Irvin wins then NFL Network has some work to do not to be next in line. There is right to work but there is also wrongfull doing and if Marriott gets the bad end of this the NFL network and ESPN are starting in the hole with it.
 

CowboyFrog

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Uhh... there can be security reasons for not divulging all info/surveillance that some local judge asks for. Was it a Federal judge? Some surveillance in hotels, etc is under Federal protection. We don't know everything.
I dont think so because a bench order would trump that, its turned over to the case not to the public.
 

Merlin

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Uhh... there can be security reasons for not divulging all info/surveillance that some local judge asks for. Was it a Federal judge? Some surveillance in hotels, etc is under Federal protection. We don't know everything.
What are the security reasons for defying a judge's order?

They are in federal court now. This makes no sense.
 

MarcusRock

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and I will ask you specifically. Lets ASSUME this is exacty what Mike said to her.

Hey baby, you look might fine tonight. You want to come upstairs and let the PLAYMAKER show you how an all pro wide receiver gets down at night with a lady? Ill let you play with..... enter any vulgar word you want here. And she said no, you are a disgusting pig and I am at work. He then smiled and said, ok, ill come looking for you ina few days when you arent still working and he walked away.

Should that cost him his job? Now I wouldnt talk to anyone like that.... I dont even know how to flirt with woman Ive been with my wife so long. BUT, what is that , other than a man trying to pick up on a woman... and that happens all day everyday across this country. Should that get him fired?
You didn't ask me but I tend to see it the way you see it regarding the nature of flirting with a woman. However, that stuff can get you thrown out of a hotel if it was directed at staff or another guest, which in turn can get you in trouble with your employer, which in turn can be treated with a heavier weight if you have stuff like harassment in your past. All of that could create the perfect storm where one loses their job over something like that. You can't look at this in a vacuum unless you don't work for a PR-conscious employer and also don't have public skeletons in your closet. This isn't a right or wrong, black and white situation.
 

Ghost12

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Uhh... there can be security reasons for not divulging all info/surveillance that some local judge asks for. Was it a Federal judge? Some surveillance in hotels, etc is under Federal protection. We don't know everything.
Yes it was a federal judge.

If there were legit reasons to not reveal the surveillance video, Marriott's lawyer(s) would have mentioned so in court. They did have a chance to respond to Irvin's request for the video. I didn't read Marriott's rebuttal, but whatever they said didn't convince the judge as he ordered the video be made available to Irvin.
 

CouchCoach

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Well not obeying the judges order was not very bright, so there's that. Good attorneys don't upset the judge for no good reason.
I assume because of the size of the Marriott holdings they would have top notch legal representation and they get a lot of lawsuits from guests, all hotels do. Maybe this lawyer misjudged this judge? Maybe they have a reason and pissing the judge off is OK as long as they land a blow against Irvin's lawyer?

From them being so quiet, they're surely talking now and even have witnesses.
 

CouchCoach

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Yes it was a federal judge.

If there were legit reasons to not reveal the surveillance video, Marriott's lawyer(s) would have mentioned so in court. They did have a chance to respond to Irvin's request for the video. I didn't read Marriott's rebuttal, but whatever they said didn't convince the judge as he ordered the video be made available to Irvin.
And be available to the public, if the lawyer wanted.
 
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