PFT: Ovation for Monk a Message to Selection Committee

[jobberone]

Great post. Totally agree. If inclusion in the HOF was up to the honorees already in the Hall a lot of bypassed guys would already be in.

The problem with the writers is there is no questioning their vote. They do not have to explain themselves and there is complete autonomy. That is flat out wrong.

We do hear from them either via interviews or thru the grape vine but they should be held accountable for no votes esp. And throw the ones out who say so and so ain't gettin in the HOF if I have anything to say about it. What arrogance.

I don't know how to fix the current problem.

But it's very clear the system they use is pretty screwed up.

Let the HOF inductees have half the vote or even a third. Then wait 25 to 50 years to see what happens. And make people who vote no stand up and give a valid reason and let it be discussed then have another vote.

Thank you. Did you catch "The top 10 players not in the hall" ? One was indeed Hayes. Not to mention Derrick Thomas. Listening to the writers and their lame excuses was pitiful.



Absolutely. It's funny because many teams fans hate Lenny P, yet he is rewarded ? Based on what ? He is an agitator. He fuels fires, and that's it. He reports opinions more than facts.

Kramer, Hayes, Thomas, Kerras, and some other Cowboys are my pet peeves. Kramer can't possibly not be in the HOF. He makes all the all decade teams and he made the 50th anniv team. He's the only guy on that team that is not in the HOF. Hayes changed Dallas to winners and changed the very face of the game. Some people even say he's just fast and not a real WR. That's absolute BS.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

UMMMM
The Pro Football Hall of Fame is a 501 (c) (3) not-for-profit educational institution that is independent of the National Football League. SO some of these suggestions, however noble, make absolutely no sense. Having said that I believe the induction committee should be made up of actual members of The Pro Football Hall of Fame. I believe these guys who played and devoted their lives to the game would be the best judges of who was voted in.That's just my 2 cents.

Though your thoughts on members have merit, I would say that the players in the HOF were elected because of their athletic skills, not their mental actuities.
And players might harbor conference loyalty or team allegiances.
No, by heck, no.
Let the sportwriters, the observers of the game, with some ex players and maybe some NFL statisticians determine the HOF selections.

 

[SteveOS]

It shouldn't send any message.

How about this one? Those that are really good make it sooner? Those that were not gamebreakers that were just solid players should have to wait.

Art Monk was not a first ballot, second, third or even fourth ballot Hall of Famer. I don't see anything wrong with letting more deserving players in first.

There is more to playing at a Hall of Fame level than simply piling up the statitstics. He wasn't a gamebreaker.

And cry me a river about his wait. Bob Hayes is still waiting and that is a disgusting shame.

+1, couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Sonny#9]

It shouldn't send any message.

How about this one? Those that are really good make it sooner? Those that were not gamebreakers that were just solid players should have to wait.

Art Monk was not a first ballot, second, third or even fourth ballot Hall of Famer. I don't see anything wrong with letting more deserving players in first.

Art Monk was the 1st receiver ever to post 100 receptions in a run-first offense, before the pass-happy era of today. Not to mention, he was a team-first guy, a willing blocker, an excellent route runner. And at one time, was the all-time leader in receptions. He caught A LOT of balls -- and he did it with the likes of Joe Theisman, Jay Schroeder, Doug Williams, Jeff Rutledge, Stan Humphries, and Mark Rypien throwing the ball. And not only did he have the numbers, he played the game the right way: team first.

There is no doubt in my mind that he belongs in the HOF. He was a great player. And the word great is tossed around entirely too much. He was great.

There is more to playing at a Hall of Fame level than simply piling up the statitstics. He wasn't a gamebreaker.

There is no doubt in my mind that if Monk played in todays game, he'd put up Marvin Harrison numbers.

And cry me a river about his wait. Bob Hayes is still waiting and that is a disgusting shame.

I fully agree with you about Bob Hayes. Dr. Z. is the prime example for what's wrong with the selection process. He finally voted for Monk b/c "he was tired of being the ***hole." Not b/c he deserved it. Not because he changed his mind. He just got worn down. He should have his vote revoked.

 

[superpunk]

Here's the message that should have been sent by the standing O - there were a ton of Commanders fans in Canton.

For 7 out of his 14 years in the league, Art Monk averaged less than 50 ypg.

 

[aikemirv]

UMMMM
The Pro Football Hall of Fame is a 501 (c) (3) not-for-profit educational institution that is independent of the National Football League. SO some of these suggestions, however noble, make absolutely no sense. Having said that I believe the induction committee should be made up of actual members of The Pro Football Hall of Fame. I believe these guys who played and devoted their lives to the game would be the best judges of who was voted in.That's just my 2 cents.

I think that is a great idea. You could have a rotating crew of older and newer players so you had a view of players from the current age and those of prior decades. The writers doing it is a joke. The guys who were in the trenches know who is deserving or not.

By the way, I think Monk was deserving.

 

[TNCowboy]

Art Monk was the 1st receiver ever to post 100 receptions in a run-first offense, before the pass-happy era of today. Not to mention, he was a team-first guy, a willing blocker, an excellent route runner. And at one time, was the all-time leader in receptions. He caught A LOT of balls -- and he did it with the likes of Joe Theisman, Jay Schroeder, Doug Williams, Jeff Rutledge, Stan Humphries, and Mark Rypien throwing the ball. And not only did he have the numbers, he played the game the right way: team first.

There is no doubt in my mind that he belongs in the HOF. He was a great player. And the word great is tossed around entirely too much. He was great.

There is no doubt in my mind that if Monk played in todays game, he'd put up Marvin Harrison numbers.

Keenan McCardell's #s are very similar to Monk's. Is he a HOFer?

Newton's comment was dead on. Monk was just Monk. A very good possession receiver who scared no one.

That's not to denigrate Monk, who was a very good player. By the Hall's low standards, Monk is a HOFer. But IMO, there are way too many good players in the HOF who were never at the elite level that should warrant inclusion.

On the other hand, Hayes was an elite player who dramatically changed not only the games he was in, but changed the way the game was played altogether.

 

[ZeroClub]

Any selection process would be seen to have problems if for no other reason that people often don't agree on who should and shouldn't be in the HoF.

FWIW, I do give Rick "Goose" Gosselin a lot of credit for helping the current imperfect system make some excellent choices, such as Rayfield Wright and Emmitt Thomas.

 

[Sonny#9]

Keenan McCardell's #s are very similar to Monk's. Is he a HOFer?

Again -- the game today is significantly different then the one 20 years ago. Give Monk that kind of room and he would dominate.

Newton's comment was dead on. Monk was just Monk. A very good possession receiver who scared no one.

Newton was an offensive line man, who got busted smuggling 400 lbs of pot. I'd hardly call him an expert.

That's not to denigrate Monk, who was a very good player. By the Hall's low standards, Monk is a HOFer. But IMO, there are way too many good players in the HOF who were never at the elite level that should warrant inclusion.

So...the all-time leader in receptions at one point, does not warrant inclusion?

On the other hand, Hayes was an elite player who dramatically changed not only the games he was in, but changed the way the game was played altogether.

How so? Not to denegrate Hayes but never lead the league in receptions, only had 2 one-thousand yard seasons...yadda, yadda, yadda. Do these sound familiar? They're the same reasons that kept Monk out.

The only reason you're bitter is b/c Monk is a Commander and Hayes is a Cowboy. It has nothing to do with football.

 

[Chief]

My problem is these guys are writers.

Not peers, not coaches, not HOF'ers.

There is going to be bias from the writers, and pressure from the teams they represent. It's almost as if teams are forced to give access based on voting enabled writers.

I think there would be even more bias from coaches and players.

Someone awhile back wrote about the Pro Bowl voting and who the players were voting for ... it was disturbing. Too many of them are uninformed and that combined with their obvious bias is a bad mix.

Not saying writers are the best choice, either. I don't know what the answer is because I don't know how you weed out the idiots.

 

[Sonny#9]

I don't know what the answer is because I don't know how you weed out the idiots.

Well, in my humble opinion, when a writer starts to sound like Grandpa Simpson, it's time for them to be replaced...

 

[WoodysGirl]

I think there would be even more bias from coaches and players.

Someone awhile back wrote about the Pro Bowl voting and who the players were voting for ... it was disturbing. Too many of them are uninformed and that combined with their obvious bias is a bad mix.

Not saying writers are the best choice, either. I don't know what the answer is because I don't know how you weed out the idiots.

Making the process more transparent would probably remove alot of the issues people have with the current process. I think the process of having NFL writers present a player's case is a good one.

But after they've narrowed the field, then a combination of current HOF members and term-limited writers on the voting board would take over.

 

[Alexander]

Art Monk was the 1st receiver ever to post 100 receptions in a run-first offense, before the pass-happy era of today. Not to mention, he was a team-first guy, a willing blocker, an excellent route runner. And at one time, was the all-time leader in receptions. He caught A LOT of balls -- and he did it with the likes of Joe Theisman, Jay Schroeder, Doug Williams, Jeff Rutledge, Stan Humphries, and Mark Rypien throwing the ball. And not only did he have the numbers, he played the game the right way: team first.

There is no doubt in my mind that he belongs in the HOF. He was a great player. And the word great is tossed around entirely too much. He was great.

Yes, but the lamentation that has been associated with him has been over the top and unjustified. Some seem to believe that having to wait means he wasn't good or wasn't deserving of the nod. That's not the case. He simply wasn't Jerry Rice-like elite where he should have been unquestionably in as soon as he was eligible.

There is no doubt in my mind that if Monk played in todays game, he'd put up Marvin Harrison numbers.

I don't believe Marvin Harrison is a sure-fire first ballot Hall of Famer either.

I fully agree with you about Bob Hayes. Dr. Z. is the prime example for what's wrong with the selection process. He finally voted for Monk b/c "he was tired of being the ***hole." Not b/c he deserved it. Not because he changed his mind. He just got worn down. He should have his vote revoked.

Hayes changed the way the position was played. The fact he had character black marks and perhaps even the team he played for is and will continue to impact his selection. But the fact he will now have to get fortunate on a old-timer's ballot is sickening.

 

[Alexander]

Making the process more transparent would probably remove alot of the issues people have with the current process. I think the process of having NFL writers present a player's case is a good one.

But after they've narrowed the field, then a combination of current HOF members and term-limited writers on the voting board would take over.

The writers need to be slowly excluded from the process.

Why? Because the quality has gone way, way down. Can you imagine a day in the future where people like Adam Schefter is a writer with clout on a committee like this? I used to have much more respect for sportswriters in the past, but the internet age has slowly moved quality writers like Frank DeFord to the back bench and bloggers, sensationalists and no-talents to the front.

 

[Sonny#9]

I don't believe Marvin Harrison is a sure-fire first ballot Hall of Famer either.

I don't know if you can label anyone outside of Jerry Rice, Reggie White, etc. as sure-fire 1st balloters, especially with the crew of electors we have...but he is definitely HoF worthy.

Hayes changed the way the position was played. The fact he had character black marks and perhaps even the team he played for is and will continue to impact his selection. But the fact he will now have to get fortunate on a old-timer's ballot is sickening.

That didn't hurt Irvin. I fully agree he should be in. The HoF selection needs to be drastically changed.

 

[DWhite Fan]

Again -- the game today is significantly different then the one 20 years ago. Give Monk that kind of room and he would dominate.
How so? Not to denegrate Hayes but never lead the league in receptions, only had 2 one-thousand yard seasons...yadda, yadda, yadda. Do these sound familiar? They're the same reasons that kept Monk out.

The only reason you're bitter is b/c Monk is a Commander and Hayes is a Cowboy. It has nothing to do with football.

And just think how much more dominant Hayes would be today. Monk is no where near the talent that Hayes was. Not even close. Monk being in the HOF before Bob Hayes just proves that the election process is an absolute joke:starspin

 

[Hostile]

Hayes changed the way the position was played. The fact he had character black marks and perhaps even the team he played for is and will continue to impact his selection. But the fact he will now have to get fortunate on a old-timer's ballot is sickening.

The problem I have with that is it has been excused for other enshrinees. Everyone will immediately bring up LT and Irvin, and those are good examples, but George Preston Marshall was in the innaugural HOF Class and he hurt more people with his racist policies than Hayes ever could have hurt.

It is supposed to be about what the players did on the field and on the field Hayes was a tremendous force. Look at how the Dallas offense took off once Landry figured out how to use Hayes and there simply should not be any doubt.

The writers who are on the selection committee simply do not have a grasp of the History and impact on the game. Their system is tragically flawed. I wish there was a way that they did not have ultimate say. I think far fewer deserving players would be excluded.

I totally agree about the fact Hayes played for the Cowboys plays a huge part in his exclusion. That is flat out wrong. The 70's Cowboys played in 5 Super Bowls, more than any team in any decade. Yet only 6 of their players are in the Hall of Fame from that Decade and it took 28 years to send one guy (Rayfield Wright) where he clearly deserved to be and 19 years to send another (Mel Renfro). There is no way anyone can tell me it is justifiable for it to take that long to elect Mel Renfro. Not with a straight face.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It shouldn't send any message.

How about this one? Those that are really good make it sooner? Those that were not gamebreakers that were just solid players should have to wait.

Art Monk was not a first ballot, second, third or even fourth ballot Hall of Famer. I don't see anything wrong with letting more deserving players in first.

There is more to playing at a Hall of Fame level than simply piling up the statitstics. He wasn't a gamebreaker.

And cry me a river about his wait. Bob Hayes is still waiting and that is a disgusting shame.

As a player, I respected Art Monk but I pretty much have to agree with you on this one Al. If Monk played in KC or Seattle or Houston, he would never be in the hall and nobody would even think twice about it. Because he played for Washington, and don't get me wrong, this happens with us as well, it's something that would never go away or die out. Monk is in the Hall, as much for where he played, as anything IMO.

 

[adbutcher]

Preach it Brother Alex!

My feelings are well documented regarding that travesty.

However what galls me even more is the secret ballot nonsense. If they are so proud of their vote they should want to defend their stupid grudge filled rationale as to why Hayes is not enshrined. Instead like the cowards they are they hide behind their anonymity. That joke of a voting process reminds me of the Tom Bradley gubernatorial election in LA.

 

[Hostile]

My feelings are well documented regarding that travesty.

However what galls me even more is the secret ballot nonsense. If they are so proud of their vote they should want to defend their stupid grudge filled rationale as to why Hayes is not enshrined. Instead like the cowards they are they hide behind their anonymity. That joke of a voting process reminds me of the Tom Bradley gubernatorial election in LA.

I agree, it is a "trust us, we'll get it right" approach and it just doesn't work.