PFT: Ovation for Monk a Message to Selection Committee

[Sonny#9]

I totally agree about the fact Hayes played for the Cowboys plays a huge part in his exclusion. That is flat out wrong. The 70's Cowboys played in 5 Super Bowls, more than any team in any decade. Yet only 6 of their players are in the Hall of Fame from that Decade and it took 28 years to send one guy (Rayfield Wright) where he clearly deserved to be and 19 years to send another (Mel Renfro). There is no way anyone can tell me it is justifiable for it to take that long to elect Mel Renfro. Not with a straight face.

I fully agree -- But it's not just the Cowboys that get this treatment -- can you explain to me how the anchor of 4 Super Bowl teams -- The Hogs -- have 0 members in the hall of fame? At the very least Joe Jacoby needs to be in.

 

[adbutcher]

I agree, it is a "trust us, we'll get it right" approach and it just doesn't work.

The only problem with that is that I don't trust them as far as I can throw them...may not as far as I can throw, maybe as far as Blind Zebra can throw them, lol.

 

[skinsscalper]

I'll play:

I do think that Monk should be in the hall of fame, if for nothing else than his longevity and ability to put up respectable numbers. Longevity is often overlooked by the griping average Joe. Fellas, without longevity Emmitt Smith wouldn't be the all-time leading rusher. Emmitt was a dominant player for a good number of years, but without longevity there's no way he stumbles through those final couple of seasons to capture the crown.

With that being said, Jim Marshall should have been in before Monk even started his career.

The flaws in the HOF selection process are gross and obvious. To echo what Alexander said, the fact that a bunch of sports hacks (who are becoming less and less talented (and more and more biased by the minute) are the entirety of the selection process is disgusting. You've got a group of guys who never had the balls or the talent to do what these guys do deciding on their fate as to how they stand amongst their peers? Are you ****ing kidding me? The ENTIRE selection process should include no one but people that played the game! That select group of players should be replaced once every five years (no need to keep a bunch of begrudged athletes from keeping out a rival). It's not rocket science and it doesn't have to be. Who better to know how great Michael Irvin was than Darrell Green or vice versa. Do Darrell Green's peers agree on the difficulties that Irvin presented? What's Deion got to say about it? That sounds a whole lot better than some hack in Philly that can't stand the fact that Irvin made a career out of whooping his team's *** and decides not to vote for him because he just can't stand him. And that's, literally, what we have here.

As stated before Dr.Z finally voted for Monk because he was sick of being the ***hole. Really? That's a Hall of Fame vote? First of all, his *** should be immediately kicked off the HOF committee if for nothing other than that reason alone. He didn't vote for Monk because he believed he should be in, he voted for him to save his own ***! That's disgusting!

I also would like to carry the torch for Bob Hayes. the fact that Monk, Stallworth, Swann, or ANY other receiver is in the Hall before Hayes is a joke. For one reason: HE CHANGED THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED! The fact that he is still the all-time touchdown leader of one of the most prolific teams in the history of the game should be close to enough, but let's go beyond that. The stats are only a party of the story (a small part, in fact). Bob Hayes brought something to the game that had never been seen before. World class speed. Yes, there were guys that were fast in the NFL before Bob Hayes. But NONE changed the game. Not one. There's a defense being played in the NFL to this very day that was designed to stop none other than Bob Hayes. It's called a zone defense. Let me repeat myself, IT WAS CREATED TO STOP BOB HAYES! Guess what? It's still played today. To this very day the defense created to stop Bullet Bob is being played. THERE ISN'T A SINGLE WIDE RECEIVER IN THE HALL OF FAME THAT CAN SAY A DEFENSE WAS CREATED TO STOP HIM. NONE! Yet Hayes is on the outside looking in. How is that even fathomable?

BTW, as I'd stated before, I think Monk has a place in the HOF, but to put Monk in before Cris Carter when both are on the same ballot is a joke. Cris Carter was ten times the Wide Receiver that Monk ever imagined being. Dr.Z should have kept his ******* mouth shut.

 

[skinsscalper]

I fully agree -- But it's not just the Cowboys that get this treatment -- can you explain to me how the anchor of 4 Super Bowl teams -- The Hogs -- have 0 members in the hall of fame? At the very least Joe Jacoby needs to be in.

I'll agree with that one. I'd throw in a vote for Russ Grimm also.

 

[Hostile]

I fully agree -- But it's not just the Cowboys that get this treatment -- can you explain to me how the anchor of 4 Super Bowl teams -- The Hogs -- have 0 members in the hall of fame? At the very least Joe Jacoby needs to be in.

Tell me why Bob Kuechenberg of the 70's Dolphins is not in.

Tell me why Derrick Thomas of the Chiefs is not in.

Tell me why Randy Gradishar of the Broncos is not in.

Tell me why Tommy Nobis of the Falcons is not in.


That's the point, they do not know what the hell they are doing. How is Cliff Harris not in? He is the 1st team all 1970's FS. The guy who was behind him on that list is in. How does that make sense? Cliff retired in 1979 which means only the Veterans Committee can get him in. That's beyond stupid. he was the best Safety of his era, a 6 time Pro Bowl honoree in his 10 years in the NFL and it was 6 straight years, and he is excluded and relegated to the Veterans Committee?

Jacoby and Grimm should be in.

The HOF is a voting is a joke.

 

[Sonny#9]

The HOF is a voting is a joke.

If it wasn't so sad, it'd be funny. The fact that writers, who have proven time and time again their utter incompetence and lack of any real knowledge, have all the say but zero accountability is a joke.

But why am I not surprised -- sports writers say/do whatever they want, or comes to mind. Gone are the days when reporters actually reported facts. It's all ego and BS now.

 

[TNCowboy]

Again -- the game today is significantly different then the one 20 years ago. Give Monk that kind of room and he would dominate.

McCardell was only a dozen years behind Monk. And some of the most prolific passing in the history of the game took place during Monk's career. Passing #s changed dramatically from the 70s to the 80s. Many of the records set in the 80s still stood, at least until Favre's and Brady's assault on the record book the last few years. It's hardly the quantum game change you're infering that took place from the late 70s.

Newton was an offensive line man, who got busted smuggling 400 lbs of pot. I'd hardly call him an expert.

Doesn't change that he was right. When Dallas played the skins, Gary Clark was the guy that concerned them. Monk was much like Jay Novacek was for Dallas, a good, clutch player, but not the guy who beat you.

Monk was a good player who lasted a long time. I have no argument with Darrell Green going in. Once upon a time, he was an elite player. Monk never was. Then again, it's my opinion that there are usually only one or two players who get enshrined every year who are really worthy. IMO, about half the guys in the HOF don't deserve to be there.

So...the all-time leader in receptions at one point, does not warrant inclusion?

As was pointed out, he wasn't. 57 yards per game. More than any other stat, that tells the story of Art Monk. A WR producing so little on a regular basis is hardly HOF worthy. As someone else pointed out, several years, it was less than 50 yds/game. In other words, much of Monk's career was mediocre, at least by the very same stats you try to use to justify his enshrinement.

How so? Not to denegrate Hayes but never lead the league in receptions, only had 2 one-thousand yard seasons...yadda, yadda, yadda. Do these sound familiar? They're the same reasons that kept Monk out.

The only reason you're bitter is b/c Monk is a Commander and Hayes is a Cowboy. It has nothing to do with football.

I'm not bitter. I ceased to really care about the HOF a long time ago. I was simply poking fun at the notion that Monk was some sort of no-brainer all-timer who is proof the system is messed up. The system is messed up, but Monk's exclusion was one of the things they had gotten right.

Hayes is dead. So it really doesn't matter now in the least whether he goes in or not. But the fact is, Hayes was once the most feared player in football who revolutionized the game. Monk was just the 80's version of Keenan McCardell....who was fortunate enough to have talented teammates.

 

[Alexander]

Hayes is dead. So it really doesn't matter now in the least whether he goes in or not.

Ridiculous.

 

[Sonny#9]

McCardell was only a dozen years behind Monk. And some of the most prolific passing in the history of the game took place during Monk's career. Passing #s changed dramatically from the 70s to the 80s. Many of the records set in the 80s still stood, at least until Favre's and Brady's assault on the record book the last few years. It's hardly the quantum game change you're infering that took place from the late 70s.

McCardell played in a pass-first, WCO. Monk played in a run-first offense where he was asked to block, run intermediate routes, and do the little things to win.

I think Art Monk is the WR version of Troy Aikman. Aikman only threw 20 or more TDs once. Never came close to hitting 4000 yards in a season. But no one would deny he is a HoFer.

Doesn't change that he was right. When Dallas played the skins, Gary Clark was the guy that concerned them. Monk was much like Jay Novacek was for Dallas, a good, clutch player, but not the guy who beat you.

It doesn't change all that Monk did for that offense.

As was pointed out, he wasn't. 57 yards per game. More than any other stat, that tells the story of Art Monk. A WR producing so little on a regular basis is hardly HOF worthy. As someone else pointed out, several years, it was less than 50 yds/game. In other words, much of Monk's career was mediocre, at least by the very same stats you try to use to justify his enshrinement.

His Rookie year, his 3rd year and his last 4 years. Every other year was above 50.

I'm not bitter. I ceased to really care about the HOF a long time ago. I was simply poking fun at the notion that Monk was some sort of no-brainer all-timer who is proof the system is messed up. The system is messed up, but Monk's exclusion was one of the things they had gotten right.

And I guarantee you wouldn't care if he wasn't a Commander.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Monk always reminded me of Drew Pearson; if Monk deserves to be in then so does Pearson.

Both players made clutch plays but neither could be described as a game changer.

 

[ZeroClub]

Robert Brazile is another example of an outstanding player not in the Hall of Fame.

 

[BehindEnemyLinez]

Here's the message that should have been sent by the standing O - there were a ton of Commanders fans in Canton.

For 7 out of his 14 years in the league, Art Monk averaged less than 50 ypg.

My thoughts exactly! I found no other message other than the above...
I agree that the HOF voting needs to be revamped but I don't think Monk is the poster child FOR said revamping! I'm sure many agree that there are former Cowboys who represent the problem w/ the Hall's voting system waaaayyy more than the former black, maroon and canary yellow clad #81!

 

[Hostile]

Hayes is dead. So it really doesn't matter now in the least whether he goes in or not.

Tell that to his sister who manages his charitable foundation. I got to know her fairly well when I was trying to help raise money for him to not be in an unmarked grave. I know for a fact she would not agree with you. If the HOF voters ever pull their heads out of a dark, smelly place she will accept for him. I promised her I would be there when that happens. It matters a lot.

 

[FCBarca]

Maybe it's just me but the whole HOF thing does nothing for me...Monk was great and any 'club' like this should've included him but in the end, really couldn't care less :laugh2:

 

[Hostile]

Maybe it's just me but the whole HOF thing does nothing for me...Monk was great and any 'club' like this should've included him but in the end, really couldn't care less :laugh2:

Yeah but you like soccer, so your taste is all in your mouth.

 

[BehindEnemyLinez]

Yeah but you like soccer, so your taste is all in your mouth.

:clubbed: Home Run!!!!!!

 

[notherbob]

Perhaps someone could explain to me why people who have never played football at any level because they were physically incapable of it are the only ones who can determine who gets into the hall?

 

[FCBarca]

Yeah but you like soccer, so your taste is all in your mouth.

I have as much interest in a HOF for football as I do for American Football...I don't get the interest, seems like a fun thing for people compiling stats and living in the past

 

[Hostile]

I have as much interest in a HOF for football as I do for American Football...I don't get the interest, seems like a fun thing for people compiling stats and living in the past

Whoosh!


Right over your head.

 

[TNCowboy]

And I guarantee you wouldn't care if he wasn't a Commander.

No, we're only discussing Monk because he was the most ridiculous inclusion in the current class, and the point of the original post.

There's been dozens of guys inducted who shouldn't be there. Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Lynn Swan just to name a few. Monk is merely the most recent example.

Personally, I have pretty much ceased to care about the HOF, because of its continued inclusion of 2nd tier players (of which Monk is merely the most recent example), and it's exclusion of a true superstar like Bob Hayes.