PFT: Parcells working with the league to get Ireland

[Chocolate Lab]

I have read before that we had Vinatieri lined up and that he simply signed with the Colts first.

Hold on, its better to use that to further some sort of strange theory about "codes" and shadowy meetings at midnight by the pier.

You might want to read the King article I posted above.

 

[skinsscalper]

Then why didn't Bill even make an offer on Vinitieri? The Pats didn't even end up keeping him that year.


The only question is, would this really be a career advancement? You could make a good argument that despite what titles say -- and titles are meaningless as they are so easily manuipulated -- Ireland would have less say there.

I posted in another thread that it was mentioned on NFL Network that the "career advancement" rule does NOT APPLY to front office personnel. Adam Schefter had a segement on the Tuna and Falcons situation. Ireland AND Garret's names came up. Garrett is in the "most likely to move on" category because he would get a HC job. When they got around to Ireland Schefter said that Ireland was under contract and that the only way he goes to Miami is if Jones allows it.

He did say that it would be unlikely for Jones to block Ireland from going to the Dolphins if Ireland truly wanted the Miami job. It's pretty much a gentleman's agreement to let a man advance his career with front office employees, but there is no NFL rule that says the Cowboys HAVE to let Ireland take the job even if it IS a move up.

 

[DallasInDC]

POSTED 10:17 a.m. EST, December 28, 2007

"SWEEPING CHANGES" COMING IN MIAMI

As Peter King of SI.com pointed out earlier in the week in his MMQB column, Parcells' contract makes clear that he merely is the overseer of the football operations.

"We set it up so the general manager I hire will have that authority. I want to make it clear: I don't want to be the general manager. I don't want to be the head coach. I told Wayne [Huizenga] that very clearly. I don't think it will be an issue.''

After reading this I am very confused...

Soooooo....what exctly is Parcell's role with team??? If he doesn't have finaly authority over personnel decisions or game planning what will be his responsibilities outside of hiring a HC and GM? We know he won't be heavily involved in marketing. He won't be negotiating contracts or manging the cap. so what else is there for him to do?

 

[superpunk]

This is kind of an unprecedented situation where a front-office type is being pursued by another team while under contract.

Still the point remains, it seems Bill is looking for the league to give their blessings in his pursuit, and not going through the Cowboys. If Bill has talked with Jerry about it, and someone knows about that, please let us know. But why would he go through the league if Jerry gave his permission?

I don't know the order of operations. I also don't know that he hasn't talked to Jerry first. That is a possibility.

If Jerry hasn't given him permission to talk to Jeff, then he has to know that Jerry will do what it takes to keep him. That makes it feel like the Davis situation IMO.

Davis' was restricted. If Payton had given us a call, and we told him "Yes, we'll match the offer sheet", we could have saved the Saints time and us money. This is just a "We'd like to talk to your employee" situation.

 

[Dallas]

After reading this I am very confused...

Soooooo....what exctly is Parcell's role with team??? If he doesn't have finaly authority over personnel decisions or game planning what will be his responsibilities outside of hiring a HC and GM? We know he won't be heavily involved in marketing. He won't be negotiating contracts or manging the cap. so what else is there for him to do?

Lie about it?


Just taking a stab here.

 

[satam55]

PFT: Parcells working with the league to get Ireland POSTED 10:17 a.m. EST, December 28, 2007

"SWEEPING CHANGES" COMING IN MIAMI

A source with knowledge of the situation in South Florida tells us that "sweeping changes" are most likely coming for the Dolphins. And soon.

Coach Cam Cameron? Out. General Manager Randy Mueller? Out as soon as Monday, even though he's been doing research all year for free agency and the draft.

We're told that Parcells already has been working directly with the league office to obtain the appropriate permissions to hire Cowboys V.P. of college and pro scouting Jeff Ireland.

As Peter King of SI.com pointed out earlier in the week in his MMQB column, Parcells' contract makes clear that he merely is the overseer of the football operations.

"We set it up so the general manager I hire will have that authority. I want to make it clear: I don't want to be the general manager. I don't want to be the head coach. I told Wayne [Huizenga] that very clearly. I don't think it will be an issue.''

If it is an issue -- if the league concludes that Parcells has final say over personnel -- then the Fins might have trouble finding a G.M. Under league rules, a team is not required to allow a front office employee to leave unless he will have final say in his new job.

So if it's determined that the Tuna has the juice, the only guys he'll be able to hire are guys who are permitted by their teams to leave, or who have contracts that specifically allow a premature departure.

And even if a guy is in the final year of his contract, most front office deals run through the draft.

With all that said, there's a growing sense in some circles that Parcells will get Ireland, and that the pair will work together in reshaping the front office.

Another source tells us that the fates of Mueller and Cameron have been sealed by people telling the Tuna that the current G.M. and coach don't burn the midnight fish oil in South Florida. Parcells, a workaholic, doesn't like the idea of guys not doing all they can to win.

 

[Dodger12]

Then why didn't Bill even make an offer on Vinitieri? The Pats didn't even end up keeping him that year.


The only question is, would this really be a career advancement? You could make a good argument that despite what titles say -- and titles are meaningless as they are so easily manuipulated -- Ireland would have less say there.

How so would Ireland have less say in Miami? Jerry has never hidden the fact that he is the final say with the Cowboys. Of course, he inserts all the qualifiers about how he listens to his scouts, Ireland, the HC, etc; but Jerry is the final say. Now, putting the contractual ramifications aside for a moment, even if BP had the final say as well, how is that any more or less than what Ireland is dealing with in Dallas with Jerry having total control?

Also, BP's coahing tree is pretty extensive. He's groomed more HC's then I care to mention. He paved the way for Bellichek to take over in New York when Parcells moved to the front office. Why wouldn't BP "groom" Ireland in Miami to take over "all football operations" (ie: BP's role) in a couple of years when BP leaves? Or is that philosophy just unique to the Dallas Cowboys and Jason Garrett?

 

[eduncan22]

Bill's Standard Operating Procedure....

Take what you know....

 

[SDogo]

Sorry Bill, Jerry is not just going to let Ireland walk with out a fight or some kind of compensation.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

How so would Ireland have less say in Miami? Jerry has never hidden the fact that he is the final say with the Cowboys. Of course, he inserts all the qualifiers about how he listens to his scouts, Ireland, the HC, etc; but Jerry is the final say.

I didn't say he would for sure. I said you could make a good argument. And that's because Jerry isn't really a football man. He takes what the personnel men say and he does that. In rare cases when there's a tie, yes, he breaks the tie.

Do you think Parcells would have that role, or even less than that role? Or do you think he's going to exert a VERY strong influence on the "GM"?

That's why you could make the argument.

Now, putting the contractual ramifications aside for a moment, even if BP had the final say as well, how is that any more or less than what Ireland is dealing with in Dallas with Jerry having total control?

Okay, say it's not any more or less than here. How is that an advancement?

Also, BP's coahing tree is pretty extensive. He's groomed more HC's then I care to mention. He paved the way for Bellichek to take over in New York when Parcells moved to the front office. Why wouldn't BP "groom" Ireland in Miami to take over "all football operations" (ie: BP's role) in a couple of years when BP leaves? Or is that philosophy just unique to the Dallas Cowboys and Jason Garrett?

So Parcells would groom Ireland to do this nebulous job Parcells now has of hiring a GM and coach and then standing back and not making decisions beyond that?

And speaking of that, don't most GMs hire the coach?

I wonder how many other clubs have this unnecessary intermediary between the owner and the GM. Probably none. I wonder why that is?

 

[theogt]

And speaking of that, don't most GMs hire the coach?

This is another good point. I don't know what the exact wording of the "final say rule" is, but I'd imagine it's final say in all personnel decisions, including the head coach, which Parcells' contract explicitly states he has control over.

 

[BigDFan5]

Do you have a link stating this? Not necessarily doubting you, but I do not recall hearing this before.

I dont have a link but I did indeed here Stephen Jones on a radio interview mention he has no interest in being GM and would hire one upon taking over the team

 

[Dodger12]

I didn't say he would for sure. I said you could make a good argument. And that's because Jerry isn't really a football man. He takes what the personnel men say and he does that. In rare cases when there's a tie, yes, he breaks the tie.

God, I may regret saying this, but Jerry is twice the football man Huizenga is and Huizenga knows it. That's why he hired a football man to run the show.

Or do you think he's going to exert a VERY strong influence on the "GM"?

BP is going ot pick a GM with his same philosophy regarding the type(s) of players and character he's looking for and Ireland would fit that bill (no pun intended). And yes, I have no doubt that BP will exert a very strong influence on the GM...after all, he's the one that hired him.

So Parcells would groom Ireland to do this nebulous job Parcells now has of hiring a GM and coach and then standing back and not making decisions beyond that?

And speaking of that, don't most GMs hire the coach?

Most head coaches hire their assistants too but Jerry found another way to skin that cat so why is it now odd that BP just may do the same thing? And what makes you, me or anyone else think that BP won't hire the GM first and allow his input as to the HC?

Parcell's job may be nebulous to some but I think it's quite clear for those people who want to see it. He's going to overhall that whole organization and how it does it's football business. A HC will hire an OC and DC but he'll still have a huge say in the game plan, he just won't call the plays. Is that nebulous?

I wonder how many other clubs have this unnecessary intermediary between the owner and the GM. Probably none. I wonder why that is?

I wonder how many other teams have an owner that's the GM? Probably very few, if any. I wonder why that is.

Look, my point is not to be disrespectful or overly argumentative to your point of view. But for the past 20 years we've lived with an owner/GM that didn't do things in the traditional sense so I just don't understand why all the uproar over someone who may do things his way, even if it's not the norm.

 

[peplaw06]

Davis' was restricted. If Payton had given us a call, and we told him "Yes, we'll match the offer sheet", we could have saved the Saints time and us money. This is just a "We'd like to talk to your employee" situation.

Ireland's not "restricted" I guess in the technical sense of that term as used by the NFL, but Jerry doesn't have to give Bill permission to talk to him. It's semantics, but sounds similar to me. If Jerry isn't going to give permission, then odds are he would match an offer.

 

[tyke1doe]

They were probably told that Parcells was working to get permission to negotiate with Ireland - and then PFT jumped straight to "hire".

Why would you negotiate with him if you didn't want to hire him?

And why would you go through all that trouble just to negotiate with him?

 

[tyke1doe]

Sorry Bill, Jerry is not just going to let Ireland walk with out a fight or some kind of compensation.

The more I read about this situation, the more it seems that this was perfectly orchestrated so that Jerry Jones walks away with that first pick and possibly Darren McFadden.

Alright, you want Ireland (assuming Ireland is going to go anway), we want appropriate and suitable compensation.

The pieces just fit too cleanly.

 

[Concord]

Folks, Larry Lacewell has an office at Valley Ranch again. That scares the piss out of me.

uke:

 

[superpunk]

Ireland's not "restricted" I guess in the technical sense of that term as used by the NFL, but Jerry doesn't have to give Bill permission to talk to him. It's semantics, but sounds similar to me. If Jerry isn't going to give permission, then odds are he would match an offer.

Like I said - there are several things we don't know.

1. If Jerry has already consented to allow negotiations.

2. What is the accepted order of operations for negotiating with an employee under contract? Do you talk to the league first? The team first? Who knows?

Without knowing that, there's really nothing to be outraged about.

Why would you negotiate with him if you didn't want to hire him?

And why would you go through all that trouble just to negotiate with him?

I have no idea what the point of these questions is. PFT claimed Parcells was seeking "permission to hire" Ireland. They seem to have skipped a couple steps in their desire to make some news.

 

[InmanRoshi]

And once more for those who will claim that Ireland will "never" be GM here... Jerry is 66 and Stephen has said that he does intend to hire a GM when he takes over.

Jerry may be 66, but he has the energy level of a man half his age. He told Norm that he still just needs 4 hours of sleep a day. He also takes extremely good care of himself after his 'extreme makeover'. I don't see Jerry stepping down until his late 70's, and he's going to be the last one to admit that he needs to. Good luck convincing any young, ambitious, talented peronnel guy to just sit tight for another decade and wait and see if maybe Stephen isn't like his old man. (And now that Jerry has his good ole' drinkin and story tellin' buddy Lacey back at the Ranch again, who says Ireland is even Jerry's right hand man on personnel matters anymore?) Especially compared to a situation like Miami where you can be the GM immediately, and then move into Parcells VP Operations position when he leaves in 2-4 years.

 

[TNCowboy]

I dont have a link but I did indeed here Stephen Jones on a radio interview mention he has no interest in being GM and would hire one upon taking over the team

I heard him say that as well. It was on the Ticket last season, IIRC.

He said that being the personnel guy was not something he wanted to do.