PFW NFC Whispers: Cowboys concerned about CB depth?

[jobberone]

I wasn't bragging about the secondary. I was saying how that secondary had less talent than the current one, and the team was able to function and win 13 games. There is a big difference.

I just pointed out two plays where Terence Newman saved two for sure losses. The secondary did have some good games that season. However, the players who are gone now were the guys getting exposed. The Commanders did a big number on Jacques Reeves with 3 WR sets. Santana Moss roasted him.

It was a coaching call that decided to have Terence Newman, out of the slot, pass off Steve Smith to Roy Williams in the deep third, right before the half. The Giants attacked Henry, Reeves, and Williams in pass coverage. Henry was beaten all day long. Two big plays came against Roy Williams isolated in coverage. The players in the secondary who were attacked repeatedly in that playoff game are gone.

To say that the secondary was the main reason for the loss ignores many other bad plays in that game. It was a coaching call right before the half that allowed the Giants to tie the game.

The overall point is we don't have a proven secondary. Newman is great when well. No one disputes that. He's hurt too much lately. Scandrick was incredible as a rookie. Will they pick on the rookies. You betcha and they may not look as great. Or they may light it up. Jenkins doesn't appear too tough to me but we'll see. And he's wasn't the player Scandrick was last year. He isn't proven. Ball is not as good at least last year. Is he good enough to play one of the first three spots?

What about Hamlin? If you're counting on a big year I salute your optimism. Who shows up this year.....the 07 or 08 Hamlin. The rest are rookies or unproven, too. Is Sensabaugh going to be able to stay on the field or have an issue? Is he as good as they say? I think yeah on the latter and I don't know on the former.

Don't get me wrong. I think our team is much improved.

And the coaches didn't lose the game nor screw up enough on that drive to produce those points. That was all Giants and not Cowboys on that drive. Hey, it happens. Romo does it a lot. But we're us.

Is the cup half full or half empty? I don't know. I hope half full or better.

 

[28 Joker]

The overall point is we don't have a proven secondary. Newman is great when well. No one disputes that. He's hurt too much lately. Scandrick was incredible as a rookie. Will they pick on the rookies. You betcha and they may not look as great. Or they may light it up. Jenkins doesn't appear too tough to me but we'll see. And he's wasn't the player Scandrick was last year. He isn't proven. Ball is not as good at least last year. Is he good enough to play one of the first three spots?

What about Hamlin? If you're counting on a big year I salute your optimism. Who shows up this year.....the 07 or 08 Hamlin. The rest are rookies or unproven, too. Is Sensabaugh going to be able to stay on the field or have an issue? Is he as good as they say? I think yeah on the latter and I don't know on the former.

Don't get me wrong. I think our team is much improved.

And the coaches didn't lose the game nor screw up enough on that drive to produce those points. That was all Giants and not Cowboys on that drive. Hey, it happens. Romo does it a lot. But we're us.

Is the cup half full or half empty? I don't know. I hope half full or better.

I respect your views, and I"ll reinterate some of mine.

I commend you for recognizing Newman's ability and talent or performance.
I'm have been a big fan of his since 2003.

However, Terence Newman is very underrated, with the fans, around the NFL. The national media holds a big role in that fact. That Fox Sports.com list of "the top 99 players" had 6 CBs in the top 99 and listed about 6 more honorable mention CBs, and the guy didn't mention Newman. Mosley put it on his ESPN blog and failed to mention Newman being left off. There are some fans on this site that would dispute that Newman is great. Trust me. I've talked to plenty of them on this site and on Vela's old site during the past three years.

Furthermore, Newman's performance on the football field, during his career, has been underrated with the Dallas fan base, and the national and local media have aided in that perception. JJT (DMN) said that Lito Sheppard is better on one occasion, and many would probably scoff at you if you mentioned Samuel and Newman in the same sentence, even though a recent Pro Football Weekly survey of GMs, personnel people, and scouts rated them both in the top 5.

That is separate from the "injury prone"/ "aging" attacks he has been receiving now in the media and from some bloggers, but it doesn't surprise me. He's always been underrated, so it doesn't surprise me when he's attacked so viciously by faceless bloggers, who use what the media is saying about him in order to attack him or attempt to marginalize him. If you are getting attacked like that, it says people fear you for some reason. They want to "take you out" or see you fail for some reason. Perhaps the media on the East Coast just doesn't want a Cowboys player being mentioned in the same breath as an Eagles player, ect...

Some of the "injury prone"/"aging" talk is simply from fans who only repeat what the media is telling them.

Newman played through a knee issue in 2004 and put up a 5.8 YPA on a team that had two players in their secondary (Newman and Williams).

Newman played through plantar fasciitis n 2007, really missed 2 games, and put up a 6.1 YPA and was put in the Pro Bowl, finally got his due. He should be commended for that, but that season is getting lumped over with last season (for some reason) and is being used against him by people who have an agenda against him or the Cowboys in general or both, imo.

Newman's first major injury came last year, in training camp, when a guy fell on him awkwardly and caused the injury. He missed 6 games. He is getting labeled "injury prone" for one major injury, an injury he tried to play with and did until he couldn't do it anymore.

What did New England do with Matt Cassel after Tom Brady missed 15+ games when that guy slammed into his leg?

They traded him. Brady had one year where he had to miss major time, the whole year, and Newman only missed 6 games.

I wonder if some Patriots' fans are calling Brady "injury prone"

Young Cornerbacks:

It comes down to whether you want to play the younger, more talented players or go with a less talented or declining veteran player who is out of a job for a reason.

The only way they (the younger players) will get more experience is if you play them.

If Dallas would have kept starting Mike Jenkins, he would be more experienced. Jenkins played very good in the Tampa Bay game; he held Burress to a 3-34/pick 6 day while taking him all over the field for most of the game. Al Harris could have learned a thing or two.

Jenkins played very well in the sub-packages at the end of the season. He was lining up inside at times, too. Jenkins played good during limited work early in the season, too. His one handed dive, on a bomb, saved the first Eagles game. He kept Greg Jennings in check and kept him out of the endzone when he drew him at Green Bay. Champ Bailey got beat deep by him on a bomb TD the year before.

However, the Dallas media has defined Jenkins' play by using one single negative play. The media is rooting for Scandrick at Jenkins' expense. No wonder, so many people doubt him.

Brandon Flowers, Antione Cason, DRC, Leodis McKelvin, and Aquib Talib all got the opportunity to play and play signigicant time. They probably all went through some growing pains. That is how you learn and get better at the position. That is how you get better as a team. You develop young players by playing them.

They were not blocked by declining players or trouble makers like Pacman. Pacman, while he did help Dallas, should have been kicked off the team after he jacked up his body guard and was suspended.

Jenkins and Scandrick were both playing plenty well enough to ditch the trouble maker. The should have cut him based on principle, anyway.

Dallas has played with Nate Jones as the # 4 CB and Jacques Reeves as the # 3 CB and won the # 1 seed and the division. You can hide a player or protect a player in the secondary with scheme if you have to do it for a while. On the other hand, you can't hide losing DeMarcus Ware, Tony Romo, Flozell Adams, Jay Ratliff, Bradie James, Andre Gurode, Leonard Davis, Mark Colombo ect...

Most teams don't have the quality of depth Dallas has at CB. Jenkins and Scandrick are not rookies. Both players got a taste of the NFL last year.

The perception is that Scandrick is so much better than Jenkins; however, both players put up YPA under 6.0 according to Joyner. Jenkins can play bump and run and is going to prove to be a ballhawk, imso.

Dallas has the best slot defender in the NFL, Terence Newman.

They have a guy who excelled there last year, Orlando Scandrick. Furthermore, Scandrick can play on the outside, too. He played good out there, too.

I just think there are much bigger concerns than the number 4 CB.

Allan Ball
DeAngelo Smith
Mike Mickens

Those three guys could be protected by scheme. You could play cover 2, cover 3, or zone up heavy if you had to do so. Plus, Ball has worked in the slot, too.

 

[mmohican29]

Translated: He hasn't killed anybody while driving drunk so far. "Leadership role off the field". Give me a break.

 

[jobberone]

I respect your views, and I"ll reinterate some of mine.

I commend you for recognizing Newman's ability and talent or performance.
I'm have been a big fan of his since 2003.

However, Terence Newman is very underrated, with the fans, around the NFL. The national media holds a big role in that fact. That Fox Sports.com list of "the top 99 players" had 6 CBs in the top 99 and listed about 6 more honorable mention CBs, and the guy didn't mention Newman. Mosley put it on his ESPN blog and failed to mention Newman being left off. There are some fans on this site that would dispute that Newman is great. Trust me. I've talked to plenty of them on this site and on Vela's old site during the past three years.

Furthermore, Newman's performance on the football field, during his career, has been underrated with the Dallas fan base, and the national and local media have aided in that perception. JJT (DMN) said that Lito Sheppard is better on one occasion, and many would probably scoff at you if you mentioned Samuel and Newman in the same sentence, even though a recent Pro Football Weekly survey of GMs, personnel people, and scouts rated them both in the top 5.

That is separate from the "injury prone"/ "aging" attacks he has been receiving now in the media and from some bloggers, but it doesn't surprise me. He's always been underrated, so it doesn't surprise me when he's attacked so viciously by faceless bloggers, who use what the media is saying about him in order to attack him or attempt to marginalize him. If you are getting attacked like that, it says people fear you for some reason. They want to "take you out" or see you fail for some reason. Perhaps the media on the East Coast just doesn't want a Cowboys player being mentioned in the same breath as an Eagles player, ect...

Some of the "injury prone"/"aging" talk is simply from fans who only repeat what the media is telling them.

Newman played through a knee issue in 2004 and put up a 5.8 YPA on a team that had two players in their secondary (Newman and Williams).

Newman played through plantar fasciitis n 2007, really missed 2 games, and put up a 6.1 YPA and was put in the Pro Bowl, finally got his due. He should be commended for that, but that season is getting lumped over with last season (for some reason) and is being used against him by people who have an agenda against him or the Cowboys in general or both, imo.

Newman's first major injury came last year, in training camp, when a guy fell on him awkwardly and caused the injury. He missed 6 games. He is getting labeled "injury prone" for one major injury, an injury he tried to play with and did until he couldn't do it anymore.

What did New England do with Matt Cassel after Tom Brady missed 15+ games when that guy slammed into his leg?

They traded him. Brady had one year where he had to miss major time, the whole year, and Newman only missed 6 games.

I wonder if some Patriots' fans are calling Brady "injury prone"

Young Cornerbacks:

It comes down to whether you want to play the younger, more talented players or go with a less talented or declining veteran player who is out of a job for a reason.

The only way they (the younger players) will get more experience is if you play them.

If Dallas would have kept starting Mike Jenkins, he would be more experienced. Jenkins played very good in the Tampa Bay game; he held Burress to a 3-34/pick 6 day while taking him all over the field for most of the game. Al Harris could have learned a thing or two.

Jenkins played very well in the sub-packages at the end of the season. He was lining up inside at times, too. Jenkins played good during limited work early in the season, too. His one handed dive, on a bomb, saved the first Eagles game. He kept Greg Jennings in check and kept him out of the endzone when he drew him at Green Bay. Champ Bailey got beat deep by him on a bomb TD the year before.

However, the Dallas media has defined Jenkins' play by using one single negative play. The media is rooting for Scandrick at Jenkins' expense. No wonder, so many people doubt him.

Brandon Flowers, Antione Cason, DRC, Leodis McKelvin, and Aquib Talib all got the opportunity to play and play signigicant time. They probably all went through some growing pains. That is how you learn and get better at the position. That is how you get better as a team. You develop young players by playing them.

They were not blocked by declining players or trouble makers like Pacman. Pacman, while he did help Dallas, should have been kicked off the team after he jacked up his body guard and was suspended.

Jenkins and Scandrick were both playing plenty well enough to ditch the trouble maker. The should have cut him based on principle, anyway.

Dallas has played with Nate Jones as the # 4 CB and Jacques Reeves as the # 3 CB and won the # 1 seed and the division. You can hide a player or protect a player in the secondary with scheme if you have to do it for a while. On the other hand, you can't hide losing DeMarcus Ware, Tony Romo, Flozell Adams, Jay Ratliff, Bradie James, Andre Gurode, Leonard Davis, Mark Colombo ect...

Most teams don't have the quality of depth Dallas has at CB. Jenkins and Scandrick are not rookies. Both players got a taste of the NFL last year.

The perception is that Scandrick is so much better than Jenkins; however, both players put up YPA under 6.0 according to Joyner. Jenkins can play bump and run and is going to prove to be a ballhawk, imso.

Dallas has the best slot defender in the NFL, Terence Newman.

They have a guy who excelled there last year, Orlando Scandrick. Furthermore, Scandrick can play on the outside, too. He played good out there, too.

I just think there are much bigger concerns than the number 4 CB.

Allan Ball
DeAngelo Smith
Mike Mickens

Those three guys could be protected by scheme. You could play cover 2, cover 3, or zone up heavy if you had to do so. Plus, Ball has worked in the slot, too.

Newman played well last year for the most part. He only started 10 games last year tho. He was hurt some of those. He only started 11 games the year before. What's so hard about that. We both agree he plays well but he can't be totally counted on relative to most players; ie, we don't expect Scandrick to be injured and not play outside the norm for his position. I do Newman until he proves o/w.

Scandrick and Jenkins are sophomores. What else needs to be said. We agree they are the future at CB and they looked good last year and I expect them to be better this year. Want to bet the baby on that though.

Ball is probably going to earn snaps this year if he stays healthy. And there is optimism over Mickens and Smith. I'm not placing my faith in any of them and less than the others.

I'm not suggesting anything about who plays. We have adequate competition. Whether they bring a vet in is undoubtedly controversial. I would place a small wager on them thinking about it now and possibly doing something if the right guy was released at some point after injuries and competition tells us more.

It's not an air tight position starting camp. QB is. RB is. TE is. Punting and placekicking is. The rest are maybes and still question marks even if you and I believe we are sitting pretty good.

And I try to respect all here including you. I do read your posts.

 

[28 Joker]

Newman played well last year for the most part. He only started 10 games last year tho. He was hurt some of those. He only started 11 games the year before. What's so hard about that. We both agree he plays well but he can't be totally counted on relative to most players; ie, we don't expect Scandrick to be injured and not play outside the norm for his position. I do Newman until he proves o/w.

Scandrick and Jenkins are sophomores. What else needs to be said. We agree they are the future at CB and they looked good last year and I expect them to be better this year. Want to bet the baby on that though.

Ball is probably going to earn snaps this year if he stays healthy. And there is optimism over Mickens and Smith. I'm not placing my faith in any of them and less than the others.

I'm not suggesting anything about who plays. We have adequate competition. Whether they bring a vet in is undoubtedly controversial. I would place a small wager on them thinking about it now and possibly doing something if the right guy was released at some point after injuries and competition tells us more.

It's not an air tight position starting camp. QB is. RB is. TE is. Punting and placekicking is. The rest are maybes and still question marks even if you and I believe we are sitting pretty good.

And I try to respect all here including you. I do read your posts.

It's cool. You have the right to your opinion, too, and the people can decide what they think.

Newman did play in 13 games in 2007, and he could have played in the last game at Washington. He was pretty much there (except for 2 games), and the team survived with Reeves playing all year. Newman came off the bench, ready to go, very early in the Rams game. He took Tory Holt at less than 100% and took care of him.

I think Terence Newman will continue to play at a very, very high level, a blue-chip level, an elite level well into his 30s if he stays healthy, and I could say the same thing about DeMarcus Ware. He has to stay healthy, too. He had a scare last year.

I think you can count on Newman.

I read on Fox Sports.com where it stated that Newman feels better than he has in years.

Anyone could get hurt in football.

Dallas lost their NT during the first game of the 2007 season, ect...

It's a tough, physical game.


Any vet that takes snaps away from Jenkins or Scandrick is a big, fat mistake, imso.

 

[28 Joker]

jobberone,


It's true that the rookies are untested, but Jenkins and Scandrick were untested last year when they were rookies. It's about believing in your scouting department. You either believe in the guys you draft and let them develop and play, or you hesitate to play them as much as you should and stunt their growth. (see Anthony Spencer/pass rush)

If you hesitate to play younger players, because you don't know "exactly" what you have, you would never find out what you really have.

Cornerbacks are thrown into the fire every year in the NFL. See DRC in the Super Bowl, ect...


Either Jenkins or Scandrick (the one not starting) could do what Reeves did in 2007 and do it a whole lot better, much better, infinately better. It's not even close. Reeves and Nate Jones were 7th round picks.


Plus, if Mike Mickens is healthy, he could contribute.

I think DeAngelo Smith could be pushing Ken Hamlin by next year. Plus, you could play him at CB, in zone, if you had to do it. I would like to see him play some safety if he keeps looking good. I bet he would be really good in cover 3, quarters, cover 2, or cover 1.

Micheal Hamlin is anther option at safety. He can go get the football.

Plus, like I said earlier, you can play cover 3, cover 2, or cover 4 zones to protect your secondary if you had to do it. The Cowboys will play some zone, anyway. It will not be all man, I don't think.

Putting DeAngelo Smith with Gerald Sensabaugh in some packages would make your defense even more fast and athletic.

If Sensabaugh is average or middle of the pack, he's an improvement over what Dallas has been playing with.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Absolutely not worried about Alan Ball as the #4. I'll take that in a heartbeat. Better than Henry as the #2 any day of the week.

 

[jobberone]

jobberone,


It's true that the rookies are untested, but Jenkins and Scandrick were untested last year when they were rookies. It's about believing in your scouting department. You either believe in the guys you draft and let them develop and play, or you hesitate to play them as much as you should and stunt their growth. (see Anthony Spencer/pass rush)

If you hesitate to play younger players, because you don't know "exactly" what you have, you would never find out what you really have.

Cornerbacks are thrown into the fire every year in the NFL. See DRC in the Super Bowl, ect...


Either Jenkins or Scandrick (the one not starting) could do what Reeves did in 2007 and do it a whole lot better, much better, infinately better. It's not even close. Reeves and Nate Jones were 7th round picks.


Plus, if Mike Mickens is healthy, he could contribute.

I think DeAngelo Smith could be pushing Ken Hamlin by next year. Plus, you could play him at CB, in zone, if you had to do it. I would like to see him play some safety if he keeps looking good. I bet he would be really good in cover 3, quarters, cover 2, or cover 1.

Micheal Hamlin is anther option at safety. He can go get the football.

Plus, like I said earlier, you can play cover 3, cover 2, or cover 4 zones to protect your secondary if you had to do it. The Cowboys will play some zone, anyway. It will not be all man, I don't think.

Putting DeAngelo Smith with Gerald Sensabaugh in some packages would make your defense even more fast and athletic.

If Sensabaugh is average or middle of the pack, he's an improvement over what Dallas has been playing with.

Again I'm not saying what I think they should do. All I've been saying is you cannot count your chickens before they hatch. While I share your optimism about the three starters, I'm not buying a lot of their stock with the last of my funds. Not sold on the safeties either. Not yet. We haven't even seen Sensabaugh play in this defense. And of course on any play a career or year could be over. We're talking trends here.