Recommended Photo: Romo INT from all 22

[ABQCOWBOY]

So he would have to audible right... so the defense would sit there and not adjust?

So let us assume he threw it to Murray, Murray would have still put them, most likely, in a third and long situation, because of the down and distance, and they would still have to attack. So then we go conservative again and punt to Manning, despite throwing the ball all over the middle of the field and end up with more time off the clock and Manning marching down the field to score...

No, he would not have to Audible. He would simply have to understand who the uncovered receiver is in the pattern and go to that receiver. Nothing needed to change in the execution of the play. Romo just needed to understand where the hole in the defense was and go to it.

That is exactly what Manning did all day long to us.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't always agree with risenstar but he is correct on this one. Romo's job isn't to throw to the most open... it's to throw to the first open and Escobar was open in spite of a hold. He just floats upfield, while the ball is in the air I might add, and allows the lb to undercut the throw. Good play by the lb'r and bad play by the rook.

This is not accurate. Come on guys. You guys surely understand the difference between offense in the middle of a game and offense in that situation. The Defense would not be completely ignoring the run in the middle of the game but they did towards the end of the game. The Defense adjusted, based on what their DC thought would happen. You make adjustments, based on game situations.

You guys know this.

 

[khiladi]

Manning was calling things pre-snap all game long... He was audibling changing plays at the line of scrimmage, talking with his backs and WRs all game long.. He wasn't just flinging it to any open man that was available..

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Manning was calling things pre-snap all game long... He was audibling changing plays at the line of scrimmage, talking with his backs and WRs all game long.. He wasn't just flinging it to any open man that was available..

OK, but watch the play in question. Romo does not have to audible in order to determine where the hole is in the defense and where to go with the ball. It's all right there in front of him. It's not even a hard read. In fact, it's better if you don't audible because then the Defensive set doesn't change.

 

[khiladi]

So should he have gone straight to Murray and allow the LB to adjust or waited for the LB to drift all the way to Escobar and then throw it to Murray, where he was expecting the pass?

 

[Kevinicus]

So you are saying that the Safety, moving laterally, to his left on the 30 yard line could make up 10 yards in the time it took Murray to turn and take one stride (two yards)? That's what would have to happen in order to stop Murray on the 20. He's on about the 18 when the ball is released.

Murray is between the 16 and 17 when the ball is released, not the 18. And the safety is at the 29. That's 2-3 yards difference already right there. And you appear to be assuming the safety is going to just stand there until Murray has the ball in his hands. Safeties have eyes and anticipation. If Tony starts to make a move in Murray's direction, the safety will cheat that way and take off once the ball is in the air. He will be several yards closer, and have momentum (which Murray won't) before Demarco gets the ball.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So should he have gone straight to Murray and allow the LB to adjust or waited for the LB to drift all the way to Escobar and then throw it to Murray, where he was expecting the pass?

If you are asking my opinion on what we should have done, then I will tell you that I believe we should have run the ball. I believe we should have run it on 1st down. In the Chat, I said as much numerous times. Had we run the ball on 1st, we would have avoided the sack and probably picked up a few yards. However, we didn't do that. I would have, again, loved to have seen us run a delay on second down but I understand the call for a pass. We needed to gain 6 yards at a minimum and really, more like 8 or 10.

I think Romo should have looked deep to see if he had an open man and if he did, he should have taken that shot but if not, he should have checked down to Murray, based on his pre-snap read and the fact that he could clearly see the LBs bailing out and the Safeties staying deep. He had time for this and if he does this, I think we are well on our way to making a 1st down. I think that you have to know and understand the situation and you have to determine, before the ball is ever in play, that if the play is not there, then you are taking the sure thing and playing for another down. If the situation were 3rd down and it was still 3rd and 16, then I would not have as big a problem with him trying to make a play that could net us the 1st because you really have no choice there. You don't check down short in that situation. You go for it but not on 2nd and 16.

This is what I would have liked to have seen happen but the ultimate truth, and I'm saying this now for the umpteenth time, this INT did not cost us the game. It was simply a mistake, IMO, that Romo made in what was the best game I've ever seen him play in his entire career. We should not be putting ourselves in that situation at all. We should not be having to depend on Romo to play perfect football to win. This is the real problem.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Murray is between the 16 and 17 when the ball is released, not the 18. And the safety is at the 29. That's 2-3 yards difference already right there. And you appear to be assuming the safety is going to just stand there until Murray has the ball in his hands. Safeties have eyes and anticipation. If Tony starts to make a move in Murray's direction, the safety will cheat that way and take off once the ball is in the air. He will be several yards closer, and have momentum (which Murray won't) before Demarco gets the ball.

16 and 17, 17 and 18, the truth of the matter is that the Safety doesn't break on the ball until it's already left Romo's hands. He is moving laterally so yeah, he basically has to deal with the same dynamics that you say are a problem for Murray and for the record, the Safety is dead on the 30 when the ball comes out. He has to get his momentum stopped and start moving towards the ball. To be honest, the more distance between Murray and the Safety, the more advantage Murray has because he can get his pads behind him. For the Safety to stop Murray inside the 20, he has to almost hit him before Murray gets squared. The futher distance between the two, the bigger advantage to Murray. I believe the Safety on that play is Moore. He goes about 195 lbs. Murray goes a good 220. It's very unlikely that even if Moore can get there, which I don't believe he can, he stops Murray. Moore will break down and when that happens, Murray is going to make him miss or gain yards on him. After contact, Murray is going to fall forward and that's probably another 3 yards. All that is IF Moore can make the tackle, which is no sure thing.

 

[BAT]

Well, I said this yesterday but the point being made was that nobody was there to make play on Escobar had he caught the ball. That, IMO, is not the case. Trevathan was right with Escobar from the snap. It's no guarantee that Escobar catches that ball, even if the route is run correctly.

Are you making this up? The argument was Escobar was NOT triple covered, not whatever it is you just said. How could there be NOBODY to make a play on Escobar if a LB was clearly covering him?

 

[Kevinicus]

16 and 17, 17 and 18, the truth of the matter is that the Safety doesn't break on the ball until it's already left Romo's hands. He is moving laterally so yeah, he basically has to deal with the same dynamics that you say are a problem for Murray and for the record, the Safety is dead on the 30 when the ball comes out. He has to get his momentum stopped and start moving towards the ball. To be honest, the more distance between Murray and the Safety, the more advantage Murray has because he can get his pads behind him. For the Safety to stop Murray inside the 20, he has to almost hit him before Murray gets squared. The futher distance between the two, the bigger advantage to Murray. I believe the Safety on that play is Moore. He goes about 195 lbs. Murray goes a good 220. It's very unlikely that even if Moore can get there, which I don't believe he can, he stops Murray. Moore will break down and when that happens, Murray is going to make him miss or gain yards on him. After contact, Murray is going to fall forward and that's probably another 3 yards. All that is IF Moore can make the tackle, which is no sure thing.

You're not even looking at the same safety that I am apparently, which makes your analysis even more odd to me if you think Murray would do better going in the direction towards more defenders on the field. I just can't follow your logic at all.

 

[BAT]

He is wide open. But Escobar was open and likely higher up in priority of reads. You don't check all your reads and then throw to the most open. You go through your reads and throw to the first one open.

Someone please sticky this for God's sake.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Are you making this up? The argument was Escobar was NOT triple covered, not whatever it is you just said. How could there be NOBODY to make a play on Escobar if a LB was clearly covering him?

This post was not to you and you clearly have no idea what is being discussed. Don't start getting stupid here. If you can't even take the time to follow the thread, don't start post stuff that is not even relevant to the current discussion. That's just not needed.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You're not even looking at the same safety that I am apparently, which makes your analysis even more odd to me if you think Murray would do better going in the direction towards more defenders on the field. I just can't follow your logic at all.

I'm looking at the Free Safety. He's the only guy who could make a play on Murray so I'm pretty sure we must be talking about the same player. but I agree, you are not following. I never said it was better for Murray to be moving towards more defenders but honestly, if Murray is going to advance the ball, he pretty much has to move towards defenders between he and the endzone right? I mean, stop and read what you are writing down in this post. Does it make sense to you?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Someone please sticky this for God's sake.

Yes. Let's please sticky this. We'll call it What Not To Do with 2:36 Left, 2nd and 16 from your own 14.

For sure, lets do that.

 

[BAT]

This post was not to you and you clearly have no idea what is being discussed. Don't start getting stupid here. If you can't even take the time to follow the thread, don't start post stuff that is not even relevant to the current discussion. That's just not needed.

LOL. Did you just imply that I was stupid when you cannot differentiate between triple covered and single covered? Or thinking that pre-snap reads are in lieu of QB progressions?

And who are you to tell me where I can post? Are MODs the only ones who can use fighting words (stupid) and not get away with being penalized?

 

[BAT]

I'm looking at the Free Safety. He's the only guy who could make a play on Murray so I'm pretty sure we must be talking about the same player. but I agree, you are not following. I never said it was better for Murray to be moving towards more defenders but honestly, if Murray is going to advance the ball, he pretty much has to move towards defenders between he and the endzone right? I mean, stop and read what you are writing down in this post. Does it make sense to you?

The LB, Trevathan, would have been the first guy to make the play on Murray. He would be the closest defender since he was covering Escobar, who you have stated is only 4-5 yards away from Murray.

 

[khiladi]

I think Romo should have looked deep to see if he had an open man and if he did, he should have taken that shot but if not, he should have checked down to Murray, based on his pre-snap read and the fact that he could clearly see the LBs bailing out and the Safeties staying deep. He had time for this and if he does this, I think we are well on our way to making a 1st down.

I thought you said he was suppose to read the defense at the beginning of the play and go to Murray, just like Manning throws to the open man all the time based upon the pre-snap read. Now your saying he should have looked deep and if it wasn't there should have gone to Murray.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

LOL. Did you just imply that I was stupid when you cannot differentiate between triple covered and single covered? Or thinking that pre-snap reads are in lieu of QB progressions?

And who are you to tell me where I can post? Are MODs the only ones who can use fighting words (stupid) and not get away with being penalized?

No, I implied nothing. I am telling you that that post was with another poster and it was in reference to me posting, yesterday, before any of the video or any of the discussion between the commentators, that I had said that Escobar had run a poor route. That was a quote, from what I had originally posted.

Basically, I'm telling you that you don't know what the hell is going on in that post so please, do not try to explain to me what you don't understand and no, MODs are not the only ones how can point out to you that you don't know what is being discussed so don't try and explain it to me. Pretty much anybody can tell you that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The LB, Trevathan, would have been the first guy to make the play on Murray. He would be the closest defender since he was covering Escobar, who you have stated is only 4-5 yards away from Murray.

That LB was not in position to make a play on Murray. He was in Escobar's hip pocket, headed in the wrong direction. He probably wouldn't have even seen the ball go to Murray but if he could have somehow seen it and gotten his momentum turned, the perhaps he would have been the first but it's very unlikely, IMO, that he is able to do that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I thought you said he was suppose to read the defense at the beginning of the play and go to Murray, just like Manning throws to the open man all the time based upon the pre-snap read. Now your saying he should have looked deep and if it wasn't there should have gone to Murray.

Yes, and in the post you are referring to here, I said that again. I have never said that Romo should not have looked to see if he had a man wide open deep. I said he had time to do that but if there was nothing completely open, then he should have checked down and taken the sure thing. I'm saying the same thing I've said from the start but maybe you have not been in the thread for all of the posts. Don't know.