Police shoot and kill 8th grader carrying a pellet gun

[WoodysGirl]

Which one is the real gun and which is fake? I know the answer based on the article, but without it, I probably wouldn't have known the difference. Extremely sad for everyone involved.

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[WV Cowboy]

Very sad for many reasons but at the same time I have a tough time sympathizing with a 15 year old who refused to obey the police and then pointed what looked like a real gun at them.

I ask this because I honestly don't know police procedure, ... but could they not shoot a kid in the leg with the first shot?

 

[joseephuss]

I ask this because I honestly don't know police procedure, ... but could they not shoot a kid in the leg with the first shot?

No, you don't shoot to try and wound someone. First, it takes a lot of skill to do that. Second, wounding someone still provides them an opportunity to shoot back or shoot at someone else.

 

[zrinkill]

Brutality.

Ignorance.

 

[joseephuss]

Wasn't there some kind of law some years ago that toy guns had to have something that made sure they did not look like real ones for this very reason? Something about making them neon colors, over sized, odd shaped and so on.

I heard the same thing. I have seen some toy guns that look very authentic except for the tip, which is bright orange.

Does a BB gun or pellet gun fall under the definition of toy gun? I assume it does not.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I ask this because I honestly don't know police procedure, ... but could they not shoot a kid in the leg with the first shot?

A response from an article

Thomas Aveni, executive director of the Police Policy Studies Council and an expert on police use of force, said the Supreme Court has ruled that if an officer believes he or she is in danger, deadly force is justified, regardless of other factors. Officers don't have time to think about how old a gunman is when it appears they, or bystanders, are in danger, he said.

“If the officer reasonably believes life is in imminent danger, it doesn't matter how old is the person who has the gun,” Aveni said.

The courts also have ruled that hindsight doesn't matter, he said. If officers believed the gun was real, they are justified in using deadly force even if it turned out to be a pellet gun, Aveni said.

Trying to shoot someone in the leg or arm is a bad idea, Aveni said, because it's difficult and because a bullet striking the arm or leg is potentially lethal anyway.

http://www.chron.com/news/state/article/Brownsville-mom-is-seeking-answers-in-death-of-2443734.php

 

[WV Cowboy]

No, you don't shoot to try and wound someone. First, it takes a lot of skill to do that. Second, wounding someone still provides them an opportunity to shoot back or shoot at someone else.

I would think that most with Police training could hit a person in the leg, and once most people are shot in the knee, they are paying more attention to their own leg than getting off another shot. Especially a middle school kid.

But don't get me wrong, .. if you point a gun at a policeman, don't complain when you get what you deserve.

I don't have a problem with what happened here, .. but I was just wondering when it was a kid, and not a drug dealer, murderer, armed robber, etc. that you could shoot to disable and not kill.

Tragic.

 

[burmafrd]

I would think that most with Police training could hit a person in the leg, and once most people are shot in the knee, they are paying more attention to their own leg than getting off another shot. Especially a middle school kid.

But don't get me wrong, .. if you point a gun at a policeman, don't complain when you get what you deserve.

I don't have a problem with what happened here, .. but I was just wondering when it was a kid, and not a drug dealer, murderer, armed robber, etc. that you could shoot to disable and not kill.

Tragic.

you clearly have never tried to fire a handgun in a combat situation which this was.

Hollywood is the only place any cop shoots at the gun hand or anything really dumb like that.

 

[YosemiteSam]

If someone is pointing a gun at me, the last place I'm aiming for is his leg. My target will be the chest or head depending on distance.

 

[joseephuss]

I would think that most with Police training could hit a person in the leg, and once most people are shot in the knee, they are paying more attention to their own leg than getting off another shot. Especially a middle school kid.

I don't. I think that kind of precision during a situation like that goes above what standard police training could prepare a person for. Perhaps someone with special ops training could do it and even then I doubt they could do it consistently. Once you have drawn and are firing a weapon you are doing it for a purpose.

 

[WV Cowboy]

you clearly have never tried to fire a handgun in a combat situation which this was.

You are right, I have not.

But several cops pointing their guns at one kid hardly qualifies as a combat situation.

If someone is pointing a gun at me, the last place I'm aiming for is his leg. My target will be the chest or head depending on distance.

Seems like it would be harder to hit the head than the leg.

Once again, I am not questioning what these policemen did. I am sure they did what they were trained to do.

It was just my first thought that they could have ended this by shooting him in the leg, or with a stun gun, or whatever, ... and not kill him.

But I guess not, and that's fine.
If you point a gun at a policeman, prepare to die.

 

[arglebargle]

I don't. I think that kind of precision during a situation like that goes above what standard police training could prepare a person for. Perhaps someone with special ops training could do it and even then I doubt they could do it consistently. Once you have drawn and are firing a weapon you are doing it for a purpose.

Shooting training for police is not that great. I have friends who shoot IDP, and they have commented on how poor the newbie police IDPers were.

It's something that can come up in your job as an officer, but most policemen have to deal with those situations just a few times in their entire career. My brother, a thirty year vet, fired a gun only once, his shotgun at a car. I am proud to say, he hit it.

Sad story, but I can't fault the officers involved.

 

[MapleLeaf]

A response from an article



http://www.chron.com/news/state/article/Brownsville-mom-is-seeking-answers-in-death-of-2443734.php

...from the courts who would in their right mind take up law enforcement as a career?

When guns are pointed who has time for debates?

Like the perps the officers trying to get back home also.

Every post seems to be focused on judgements of the child and officer's actions when I think the more pertinent issue at hand is what led the young boy to the series of events and his eventual death.

The issue of the officer's action is a moot point in my opinion when the boy took out what look to be a handgun and didn't back down. What possibly was supporting information for officers arriving on the scene was the boy was already invovled with violence towards another student.

Given this information and a non-responsive young boy with what appeared to be a legitimate lethal weapon in his hand I would side with the legal argument put forth by the US Supreme Court.

 

[Muhast]

I heard on the news that he was shot 3 times in the head?

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Sad story, but you simply can't blame the cops.

There is one hard fast rule I live by.....if the police tell me to do something, I do it. I don't worry about my rights, I don't get an attitude. I just do it.

I doubt you would do everything they tell you to do

 

[Passepartout]

Well that kid would have killed someone with a gun. As who knows what he would had done, had police not arrived. Could had started another Columbine.

Cops don't have time to think about it. It is a one shot thing. And that they have to consider, other people also in danger. And could be shot if they, the cops, don't stop the shooter.

But I do feel bad for that kid's parents though.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I heard on the news that he was shot 3 times in the head?

Per the article I posted, he was shot at least once in the chest and once in the back of the head.

I'm really not sure of the specifics beyond what his mother was quoted as saying.

 

[Muhast]

Well that kid would have killed someone with a gun. As who knows what he would had done, had police not arrived. Could had started another Columbine.

Cops don't have time to think about it. It is a one shot thing. And that they have to consider, other people also in danger. And could be shot if they, the cops, don't stop the shooter.

But I do feel bad for that kid's parents though.

You must not know he had a pellet gun. Not going to do a ton of damage with that. they look very real though and the cops had no way of knowing if it was real or not

 

[rkell87]

I would think that most with Police training could hit a person in the leg, and once most people are shot in the knee, they are paying more attention to their own leg than getting off another shot. Especially a middle school kid.

But don't get me wrong, .. if you point a gun at a policeman, don't complain when you get what you deserve.

I don't have a problem with what happened here, .. but I was just wondering when it was a kid, and not a drug dealer, murderer, armed robber, etc. that you could shoot to disable and not kill.

Tragic.

you must not have watched the wire

 

[RoyTheHammer]

It might have been. If so it sucks he had to mess a cop's life up in the process of killing himself.

I really hope this isn't the case. I feel bad that the boy had to die from the gunshots, and obviously for the boy's family, but the cop(s) were well within their rights to do what they did. I know it will weigh on them, as im sure it does anyone they kill, but i hope they know that they did the right thing, and that they don't have to go through life thinking they made a mistake. I hope if the situation comes up anywhere, every cop does the same thing.

Honestly, i don't know if it was a case of the kid trying to be tough like so many other kids nowadays and it just got carried away, but whatever it was, the kid was an idiot to do what he did. The fact that the parents are complaining about the cops actions and not really accepting that their son did the wrong thing shows they probably weren't the greatest parents in the first place.