Pollard is good, but he's no Zeke

[aria]

You're correct 100% a total waste!!!!
Remember those 6 games Zeke was out how our offense ran wild and we went 6-0 in that span and made the playoffs as the #1 seed.
Now tell Santa we want a Superbowl for Xmas.....thks bud.

We went 3-3, just like we went 8-8 WITH Zeke last year and Morris had a better ypc.

You’re welcome!

 

[CowboyRoy]

Just messing with ya man. I think you're a bit over the top with Zeke...but you are okay in my book!

I am definitely over the top with Zeke.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Yes, Murray did carry the rock and killed it. Without question. I've said so in my posts.

And I agree you can't fault Murray or his coach not putting him in higher use over his time in Dallas, but neither can you credit him as if were in higher use over his time in Dallas, or give him credit for stats that we can only assume if he had been used more. Unfortunately, it will always be an unknown.

As for Murray being more of a team leader, that's a point I have already agreed with. You get no disagreement from me on that front.

I've liked everything you've said......especially this one: "What happens is they take and twist the concept that a top RB isn't absolutely required into meaning a top RB doesn't doesn't play a meaningful role. It's twisting things to fit a narrative."

Excellent!


But I have to slightly object to Murray being a "team leader". I'm not certain of that statement. Just because he didn't make hand signs or get unfairly suspended...does NOT make him a "leader". Amari is great...I like him very much...but I don't view him as a "team leader" simply because he's quiet.

 

[CATCH17]

What's funny is that the "RB's are useless" argument has been obliterated, but people are still desperately hanging onto it.

RBs aren’t useless.. Paying them a ton of money is the problem.

You don’t need to pay that position to get production. Volume is key.

 

[aria]

That's a false statement. 4 of the top 10 rushers and 7 of the top 10 rushing teams made the playoffs, and one of them was the Super Bowl runner up.

Actually I stand corrected it was 3 but I’m not including Jackson, he’s not a RB.

And thanks for proving my point, 7 of the top 10 rushing teams made the playoffs last year yet we have the highest paid RB, used a 4th overall pick on him, were still 8-8 and had the second best run blocking line in the league. Most other teams are clearly smart enough not to waste that much capital on one RB and are doing more with less.

Same reason why everyone likes to flaunt the Ewoks league rushing titles, too bad individual stats don’t win Super Bowls which is why only ONE league leading RB for total yards has won a Super Bowl in the past twenty years. As I said, it was a complete waste to spend as much as Jerry did on the most expendable position on the field.

 

[aria]

Only 3 of the top 10 CB's made the playoffs, might as well dump all CB's also!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apples to oranges and you know it. Not even worth arguing that point but nice try.

 

[OmerV]

I've liked everything you've said......especially this one: "What happens is they take and twist the concept that a top RB isn't absolutely required into meaning a top RB doesn't doesn't play a meaningful role. It's twisting things to fit a narrative."

Excellent!


But I have to slightly object to Murray being a "team leader". I'm not certain of that statement. Just because he didn't make hand signs or get unfairly suspended...does NOT make him a "leader". Amari is great...I like him very much...but I don't view him as a "team leader" simply because he's quiet.

Fair enough on the team leader aspect. I guess it would be more fair to say there weren't the distractions with Murray that there have been with Zeke.

 

[OmerV]

Actually I stand corrected it was 3 but I’m not including Jackson, he’s not a RB.

And thanks for proving my point, 7 of the top 10 rushing teams made the playoffs last year yet we have the highest paid RB, used a 4th overall pick on him, were still 8-8 and had the second best run blocking line in the league. Most other teams are clearly smart enough not to waste that much capital on one RB and are doing more with less.

Same reason why everyone likes to flaunt the Ewoks league rushing titles, too bad individual stats don’t win Super Bowls which is why only ONE league leading RB for total yards has won a Super Bowl in the past twenty years. As I said, it was a complete waste to spend as much as Jerry did on the most expendable position on the field.

Jackson was used very much as a RB - he didn't gain his yards just by scrambling away from a pass rush. Besides, the key is team rushing yards, and whether that comes from having a stud RB or more by committee doesn't really matter.

I have no idea how you think what I said proves your point. Again, having a strong running game can be a big key, but it makes no sense to say that only applies if it happens using RB by committee. Of the 7 playoff teams that had top 10 rushing attacks, 4 used one guy as the bell cow for the running game, and 3 spread the running game around more. Both ways worked.

By the way, nobody claimed having the top RB alone wins Super Bowls, and your comment about how often the top RB does win is pretty irrelevant anyway because it narrows the criteria to a ridiculous level. The QB with the most passing yards in the NFL doesn't win every year either, but does that mean having a top passing QB isn't important?
What about the teams with the 2nd RB for the season, or the 3rd or 4th or 5th or 6th? Did some of those teams win the Super Bowl?

 

[kskboys]

RBs aren’t useless.. Paying them a ton of money is the problem.

You don’t need to pay that position to get production. Volume is key.

That depends. If Zeke will get his fat bum in shape and drop the attitude, he's worth every penny.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

RBs aren’t useless.. Paying them a ton of money is the problem.

You don’t need to pay that position to get production. Volume is key.

Depends on how you define "production".

Is playing RB, TB and FB as a top five back..."producing" ...volume-ing?

 

[Staggerlee]

Water is wet

 

[aria]

Jackson was used very much as a RB - he didn't gain his yards just by scrambling away from a pass rush. Besides, the key is team rushing yards, and whether that comes from having a stud RB or more by committee doesn't really matter.

I have no idea how you think what I said proves your point. Again, having a strong running game can be a big key, but it makes no sense to say that only applies if it happens using RB by committee. Of the 7 playoff teams that had top 10 rushing attacks, 4 used one guy as the bell cow for the running game, and 3 spread the running game around more. Both ways worked.

By the way, nobody claimed having the top RB alone wins Super Bowls, and your comment about how often the top RB does win is pretty irrelevant anyway because it narrows the criteria to a ridiculous level. The QB with the most passing yards in the NFL doesn't win every year either, but does that mean having a top passing QB isn't important?
What about the teams with the 2nd RB for the season, or the 3rd or 4th or 5th or 6th? Did some of those teams win the Super Bowl?

So when people talk about how valuable Zeke is why do they always bring up rushing titles since it’s irrelevant?

As far as Jackson goes, when zeke becomes a dual threat running back and quarterback then let me know and I’ll never talk about what a waste of money he is.

Out of those 7 teams, what’s the average salary for their RB’s and their average draft positions?

Henry was the 45th pick! Lamar Jackson was the 32 pick and he has so many more assets than zeke. Aaron Jones was a 5th round pick! Cook was 41st overall. Carson was 7th round. I could go on naming more but you get the point.

Zeke was 4th overall and is the highest paid running back...one of these things is not like the other, can you figure out which one it is?

It’s relevant because I never said zeke wasn’t a good RB (although I do believe he wouldn’t have near the numbers running behind most lines in the NFL). I said he wasn’t worth what we paid him or where we drafted him.

Again, as far as money and draft capital spent, ALL other teams are doing more with less. If the Giants are dumb enough to pay Barkley more than zeke, which I think they will, then they will take the crown as the biggest idiots when it comes to spending on RB’s but until then we win!

The only other RB I would consider being close to what Zeke made is McCaffrey and that’s because he’s much more versatile, like a swiss army knife on an offense.

 

[OmerV]

So when people talk about how valuable Zeke is why do they always bring up rushing titles since it’s irrelevant?

As far as Jackson goes, when zeke becomes a dual threat running back and quarterback then let me know and I’ll never talk about what a waste of money he is.

Out of those 7 teams, what’s the average salary for their RB’s and their average draft positions?

Henry was the 45th pick! Lamar Jackson was the 32 pick and he has so many more assets than zeke. Aaron Jones was a 5th round pick! Cook was 41st overall. Carson was 7th round. I could go on naming more but you get the point.

Zeke was 4th overall and is the highest paid running back...one of these things is not like the other, can you figure out which one it is?

It’s relevant because I never said zeke wasn’t a good RB (although I do believe he wouldn’t have near the numbers running behind most lines in the NFL). I said he wasn’t worth what we paid him or where we drafted him.

Again, as far as money and draft capital spent, ALL other teams are doing more with less. If the Giants are dumb enough to pay Barkley more than zeke, which I think they will, then they will take the crown as the biggest idiots when it comes to spending on RB’s but until then we win!

The only other RB I would consider being close to what Zeke made is McCaffrey and that’s because he’s much more versatile, like a swiss army knife on an offense.

The only relevance I think rushing titles have is that they show he is a strong contributor to a strong running game. And frankly I don't know if anyone is saying a rushing title is required to win a championship. I think that's a misinterpretation. I think all that promote Zeke would agree that the contribution he makes is to a strong running game and not the title itself.

As for salary, ultimately time will tell if he is overpaid. I don't think we can pretend to know the future, or judge using some preconceived notion that a strong RB is either necessary or useless in helping to win a championship.

As for draft position, that's water under the bridge at this point, but I will say Henry and Jackson's one big year each don't quite qualify as consistent with Zeke either. They may continue to be that good, but we don't yet know what they will do year to year. Besides, if you want to look at it that way, why not say Brady was a 6th round pick, and Brees was a 2nd round pick, so that means Rodgers and Roethlesberger weren't worth 1st round picks? The draft isn't an exact science, and all drafting a player high does is increase the odds of getting the better players. It doesn't mean there won't be any better players in other rounds.

 

[Ranched]

how great Tony Pollard is and that he's better that Zekie. Well, I remember a back by the name of Felix Jones who everyone thought was the next Emmitt when the Boys had Marion Barber. Isn't it funny when the guy playing second fiddle has seriously gaudy numbers until he's asked to carry the baton. I can I get an amen!!!!

For what? Ewok had 1,357 w/12 TD's last season. That was his lowest yardage output since he missed 6 games in '17 due to his suspension. He got $90 million for that performance? And he takes himself out because he was tired?

Big payday = Less production. Coincidence? NOT!

Pollard is a rising talent. Pollard brings another dimension when he catches passes out of the backfield. Garrett/Moore hardly gave him any touches last seasn, plus he was underutilized in the return game as well.

 

[aria]

The only relevance I think rushing titles have is that they show he is a strong contributor to a strong running game. And frankly I don't know if anyone is saying a rushing title is required to win a championship. I think that's a misinterpretation. I think all that promote Zeke would agree that the contribution e makes to the team is to a strong running game and not the title itself.

As for salary, ultimately time will tell if he is overpaid. I don't think we can pretend to know the future, or judge using some preconceived notion that a strong RB is either necessary or useless in helping to win a championship.

As for draft position, that's water under the bridge at this point, but I will say Henry and Jackson's one big year each don't quite qualify as consistent with Zeke either. They may continue to be that good, but we don't yet know what they will do year to year. Besides, if you want to look at it that way, why not say Brady was a 6th round pick, and Brees was a 2nd round pick, so that means Rodgers and Roethlesberger weren't worth 1st round picks? The draft isn't an exact science, and all drafting a player high does is increase the odds of getting the better players. It doesn't mean there won't be any better players in other rounds.

Agree with most of that and I definitely think a strong running game helps win championships but history shows that those RB’s can be found at a much cheaper price and much lower in the draft. IMO, we could have spent that pick and his salary much more wisely.

On a separate note, throw in his off the field antics and sitting out with two years left and it makes it even a tougher pill to swallow.

 

[OmerV]

Agree with most of that and I definitely think a strong running game helps win championships but history shows that those RB’s can be found at a much cheaper price and much lower in the draft. IMO, we could have spent that pick and his salary much more wisely.

On a separate note, throw in his off the field antics and sitting out with two years left and it makes it even a tougher pill to swallow.

Yeah, they "can be", but as with any position, the odds of finding the right one go down as you get later in the draft. I think in the Cowboys case, they had decided the 2014 offensive model with Murray was the direction they needed to go, so they didn't want to take a chance hoping to find a good enough RB to fill that Murray role later in the draft.

I agree ab out the off field stuff. I'm not a big fan of him on that front. I'm also not a fan of the "feed me" thing, especially when the team is getting beat or he isn't playing particularly well. To me the small individual things in a game don't merit a celebration, and rather than a spontaneous reaction, that kind of thing just becomes an obligatory action designed to put attention on himself.

 

[Cmac]

So that means that he cant?

Memphis Coaching staff can answer that.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Memphis Coaching staff can answer that.

Can they? Great, so how do we ask them?

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

So when people talk about how valuable Zeke is why do they always bring up rushing titles since it’s irrelevant?

As far as Jackson goes, when zeke becomes a dual threat running back and quarterback then let me know and I’ll never talk about what a waste of money he is.

Out of those 7 teams, what’s the average salary for their RB’s and their average draft positions?

Henry was the 45th pick! Lamar Jackson was the 32 pick and he has so many more assets than zeke. Aaron Jones was a 5th round pick! Cook was 41st overall. Carson was 7th round. I could go on naming more but you get the point.

Zeke was 4th overall and is the highest paid running back...one of these things is not like the other, can you figure out which one it is?

It’s relevant because I never said zeke wasn’t a good RB (although I do believe he wouldn’t have near the numbers running behind most lines in the NFL). I said he wasn’t worth what we paid him or where we drafted him.

Again, as far as money and draft capital spent, ALL other teams are doing more with less. If the Giants are dumb enough to pay Barkley more than zeke, which I think they will, then they will take the crown as the biggest idiots when it comes to spending on RB’s but until then we win!

The only other RB I would consider being close to what Zeke made is McCaffrey and that’s because he’s much more versatile, like a swiss army knife on an offense.

You see....this is an example of FAKE NEWS. THIS guy...ignores all the other things people bring up. As if "rushing titles" is the oNLY thing> Bull sheet!

If you think the only thing that zeke bring is rushing titles and a obscene paycheck....why even be here to talk? You aren't interested in honest discourse and maybe different perspective. Just force your opinion and blabber about.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Can they? Great, so how do we ask them?

Just ASK them.

The point is.....you can;t say any other RB would give us the same production. Asking Memphis coaches has the same fantasy and fallacy as claiming Murray and Pollard are dirt cheap and effective. Can't be proven....but according to YOU it's clear cut no debate.