Position by position breakdown of Dallas/Washington starters

[The30YardSlant]

I agree with your assesment of the players by position but you neglected a vital area-COACHING_

unfortunately for US one of the better staffs in the league is in washington with GIBBS, Awesome D coordinator and the Offensive Coordinator from the Chiefs= BIG ADVANTAGE TO WASHINGTON

until we get competent offensive and defensive coordinators we will be no better than 11-5

You seem to have no read my post, I did include coaching

 

[KINGBRICE_28]

I know I'm light years late but I have to say that I only disagree with CB's.....

Rogers was not burned last season.....he actually was very good.....Walt Harris got raped though because Springs blitzed often leaving Walt on the #1 and Rogers on #2.....

I'd say Springs ( w/o injuries ) has 3 seasons left.......he is an elite corner in my mind......last season he returned to previous form......I've actually never seen a CB make so many solid tackles on TE's and Rb's in my life....This coming from a football coach.......he never laid on out but I can't think of a single missed tackle that haunts me either......

He's top 8....

Rogers , we'll know about him in 2 more years.......

 

[The30YardSlant]

I know I'm light years late but I have to say that I only disagree with CB's.....

Rogers was not burned last season.....he actually was very good.....Walt Harris got raped though because Springs blitzed often leaving Walt on the #1 and Rogers on #2.....

I'd say Springs ( w/o injuries ) has 3 seasons left.......he is an elite corner in my mind......last season he returned to previous form......I've actually never seen a CB make so many solid tackles on TE's and Rb's in my life....This coming from a football coach.......he never laid on out but I can't think of a single missed tackle that haunts me either......

He's top 8....

Rogers , we'll know about him in 2 more years.......

Reggie Brown thinks otherwise

 

[apickmans]

HH,

You gotta replace Ray Brown with Randy Thomas who in my opinion, is a very good guard. I also think Carlos Rogers played very well for us especially considering that he was a rookie. It seemed like he kept getting better with every game he played. To me Shawn Springs is still an elite CB in the league...i rarely ever see him get burned and he is an outstanding tackler. Everything else seemed right although i bet pretty soon you will be seeing Chris Coolery up there with the other elite TEs.

 

[KINGBRICE_28]

Reggie Brown thinks otherwise

very true but how many of those plays was Springs locked MAN2MAN rather than zone?......sure he had 3 td's.....in 2 loses I might add.....but that doesn't mean he sux......**** I'll admit that M.I. seemed to score on D.G. ( though he did have countless chances ) more than other WR's too but D.G. is still the best.......

 

[Future]

So was your registration on this site, but yet here I am, reading your post.

lol that made my day

 

[Bob Sacamano]

uh, I think we'll have to wait till the 2 teams meet in a regular season game to figure that out HH

 

[Bob Sacamano]

btw, I agree pretty much, but would have to say Safetie should be a push between the 2 teams, and TO>Lloyd+Randel-El

 

[hooskins]

Dallas: Flozell Adams, Kyle Kosier, Andre Gurode, Marco Rivera, Jason Fabini
Washington: Chris Samuels, Derrick Dockery, Casey Rabach, Ray Brown, Jon Jansen

This isnt even funny. Outside of Adams and Rivera, Dallas doesnt have much.

Advantage: Washington

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I agree with the assessment except the WR part. I feel we have the better overall package with the WR's, and that is factoring in on and off field abilities. I copied what you had said above, about the OL. Even though the points are almost equal in this tally, that does not mean the games will be close. In the end, if Dallas doesn't have a solid pocket to defend Bledsoe, you guys are screwed. And I do not mean this in an offensive way, if we lock down on TO for a couple seconds, and get a good pass rush, that could cause major problems for dallas.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I feel we have the better overall package with the WR's

overall package at WR? all you have is smurfs who run in a straight-line down the field...sure, Randel-El will go over the middle occasionally, but he doesn't exactly give you a different dimension across the middle of the field

that is factoring in on and off field abilities.

how convenient of you to factor the off field abilities, whatever that means

 

[Bob Sacamano]

And I do not mean this in an offensive way, if we lock down on TO for a couple seconds, and get a good pass rush, that could cause major problems for dallas.

I don't mean this in an offensive way, but if you concentrate on TO, Glenn is going to burn you...bad, and if you get a push, Bledsoe will have Witten as his hot-receiver, since he won't have to stay back in pass-protection as much as he did last year with the signing of Fabini and Flozell Adams back at OT

 

[jterrell]

QB: Dallas. Bledsoe has been much healthier and hasn't had a threat like Santana Moss until we signed TO. His OL last year was far inferior and he outplayed Brunell easily until Flo went down. Collins is the best backup right now.

RB: Wash, Portis. Portis can disappear at times but he is a lot more durable than JJ. The backups are actually all quality players so both teams have good depth.

WR: Dallas. TO gives this edge to the Boys as he is simply Moss plus great size. Lloyd and Randel El are both vastly overrated at WR. Neither guy has 50 catches and Randel El averaged 2 catches a game as a starter. Crayton is a similar player to Randel El.

TE: Dallas. Witten is simply a bigger, better player than Cooley who has been a nice find for them.

OL: Wash. Its pretty close and last year Wash was vastly superior but both lines have guys who are up and down based on injuries. Dallas' improved OT situation and better depth probably give them an edge. Dallas actually has weak depth but Wash has none. In the end tho you can't ignore last season so I'll give this to Wash pending watching Rivera and Flo in pre-season.

DL: Dallas. Ellis is the best pass rushing DE on both teams and Spears is the best run stuffing DE of both teams. Ellis is the best overall player tho Griffin is right there. Dallas has little depth inside but plays a 3-4 so doesn't need much.

LB: Wash. Washington has the best player right now but Ware could overtake Washington this season pretty easily. Wash's edge is minimal and the OLB added by Dallas would swing this one.

CB: Not even close. Dallas the best 4 deep CB group in football. Even with injuries to Henry and TNew the CB group held its own. Reeves is near passing Glenn for the nickel spot while Wash has only 1 player in this group with any real potential to get better.

S: Wash. They have already gotten both starters in place and we don't. hen again a week ago they would ahve won kicker hands down as well....

ST: Dallas. Wash has a better punt returner but Dallas has the better kicker, punter and kickoff return guy.

Coaching: Both have Hall of Fame head coaches and assistants who have interviewed or been head coaches before. The smarter group will likely be the group who has the healthier team. BP looked pretty dumb trying to play Torrin Tucker at LT.

 

[jterrell]

I agree with the assessment except the WR part. I feel we have the better overall package with the WR's, and that is factoring in on and off field abilities. I copied what you had said above, about the OL. Even though the points are almost equal in this tally, that does not mean the games will be close. In the end, if Dallas doesn't have a solid pocket to defend Bledsoe, you guys are screwed. And I do not mean this in an offensive way, if we lock down on TO for a couple seconds, and get a good pass rush, that could cause major problems for dallas.

If you are talking in 3 years I might agree with you but for this season Dallas is far superior.

Even with attitiude factored in almost no one(even in philly) expects TO do anything but score TDs and celebrate alot this season.

Who locks down on TO for a few seconds? He's been one of the best off the pline Wrs in the league for 5 years. He is used to the quick read WCO. Wash doesnt have a CB physical enough to handle TO at the LOS. More than likely they will double him and leave Glenn and Witten both single covered.

You won't be pass rushing against Tucker and Petitti this season and its not like you have Strahan or Osi.

 

[Gfunk]

Let's see who the better team REALLY is:

Quarterback:

Dallas: Drew Bledsoe
Washington: Mark Brunell

First of all, everyone, including Washington fans, acknowledge Brunell's lack of arm strength. The term "noodle arm" was even coined by the Washington press. Bledsoe has a much better arm, many believe he is still one of the best pure pocket passing QBs in football. Brunell holds the advantage in mobility, though he isnt the scrambler he once was. The biggest thing: Bledsoe is 33, Brunell is 37. Brunell's arm has already started to leave him, one only wonders if he has any hope of a repeat performance of 2005.

Advantage: Dallas

I think this is a draw. Sure, Bledsoe may be younger and (supposidly) have a better arm, but he is immobile as hell. I don't know where people get this "noodle arm" BS from, maybe the 2005 season? Moss, the definition of a deep threat, had his first Pro Bowl season with Brunell. So how can you say Brunell doesn't have the arm? Pennington doesn't have the arm, but Brunell? Come on...
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]
Runningback:[/b]

Dallas: Julius Jones
Washington: Clinton Portis

No real need to dicuss this one, Clinton Portis is a top 5 RB.

Advantage: Washington

Funny how much one seasn can change everything, huh? Last offseason, Portis was still suspect to me. But after churning out a 1500 yard, double digit TD season, with no major injuries, against the hardest divison to run against (the NFC East), he is indeed an elite RB. He really came into his own with this team, and the offensive line really came together, second half of last season. Portis killed all doubts that he wasn't the power RB Gibbs likes.
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Wide Receiver:

Dallas: Terrell Owens, Terry Glenn, Patrick Crayton
Washingon: Santana Moss, Brandon Llyod, Antwaan Randle El

This one is pretty close, but when you get down to it, TO > Moss, Glenn > Liyod, and Crayton > Randle El

Advantage: Dallas

I'll give you that, although I'm excited personally about the potential of our core. Glenn is still a playmaker, Crayton is as well, and we don't have to get into TO. TO is getting older now, but I don't see why he won't continue to dominate the league for another year or two (minus any of his usual BS). The fact that we had no other WR help to take pressure of Moss, and he still finished second in the league, speaks for itself. You're looking at greatness in the making when it comes to Santana Moss.
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Tight End:

Dallas: Jason Witten
Washington: Chris Cooley

Another no brainer. Cooley is good, Witten is elite.

Advantage: Dallas

I don't see how you have the clear advantage here, I'm gonna have to call draw again. Cooley has always had the TD totals to match Witten, and after this past season, now is starting to get the yardage totals as well.
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Offensive Line:

Dallas: Flozell Adams, Kyle Kosier, Andre Gurode, Marco Rivera, Jason Fabini
Washington: Chris Samuels, Derrick Dockery, Casey Rabach, Ray Brown, Jon Jansen

This isnt even funny. Outside of Adams and Rivera, Dallas doesnt have much.

Advantage: Washington

Phillip Daniels, who had 1 sack going into the Dec. 18th Dallas game, gets 4 on Bledsoe in one game? Yeah, your line is ****ed up. Without a doubt, Washington has the best line in the NFC East. Also, Ray Brown (now retired) was only playing because Randy Thomas went down with injury in the Giants game (Dec. 24th). Thomas is one of the better pulling guards in the league.

I do realize the injury to Flozel Adams really hurt, and Marco Rivera (sp?) didn't turn out to be who you paid him to be.
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Defensive Line:

Dallas: Chris Canty/Greg Ellis, Jason Ferguson, Marcus Spears
Washington: Phillip Daniels, Cornelius Griffin, Joe Salave'a, Andre Carter

THis one is tough. Marcus Spears and Ellis/Canty are obviously better than the DE's of Washington, but Griffin is better than Ferguson. However, Andre Carter is a tweener and teams will run on him, while Spears and Canty are run stopping specialist. Had Washington gotton Abraham, this would be Washington's advantage.

Advantage: Dallas

You have the youth, but I consider Cornelius Griffin the best DT in the league. Very rarely do you see a DT that can stuff the run and rush the passer like he does, all while beating double teams. He makes everyone else on our line better. Plus, team him up with Joe Salave'a, and it's over. Yes, Wynn and Daniels are more run stuffers than pass rushers, but to call Andre Carter a tweener is stretching it. He's a natural DE who was forced to play LB for Nolan. Spears isn't that bigger than him. I felt ya'll had a better line with Glover in there, he always gave us problems.
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Linebackers:

Dallas: DeMarcus Ware, Akin Ayodele, Bradie James, draft pick
Washington: Marcus Washington, Lemar Marshall, ????

Both teams have no starting strongside LB right now, so its hard to judge right now. If Dallas drafts an OLB in round 1, the edge goes to Dallas. However, because Marshall and Washington are both very good players, it goes to the Skins as of now.

Advantage: Washington

Agreed, your guys are still young, but Washington is one of the premier OLBs in the league, and Marshall is a playmaking fool out on the field.
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Cornerbacks:

Dallas: Terence Newman, Anthony Henry
Washington: Shawn Springs, Carlos Rogers

Terence Newman and Anthony Henry make up one of the better CB duos in the NFL. Shawn Springs is good, but his skills are diminishing. Carlos Rogers got burnt like a ****** near a hot stove last year.

Advantage: Dallas

Safeties:

Dallas: Roy Williams, ?????
Washington: Sean Taylor, Adam Archuleta

Until Dallas gets a compitant FS, it wont matter that Washington's safeties couldnt cover a JV wide receiver.

Advantage: Washington

This could probably be debated all day, all night, but you can't touch Springs, Rogers, Archuleta, and Taylor for a secondary. Rogers was a rookie last year, all rookies get burned, but he turned out better than Adam Jones or dude in Arizona. He's great in run support and has a nose for INTs.

I don't know where you get off saying Springs' skills are diminishing, he's one of the premier CBs in the league. I realize I've saidy "premier" a lot in this post, but it's true. He didn't have the same year as '05, but then again, teams don't test him, and he was playing through a groin injury end of last season.

We can save the Sean Taylor > Roy Williams debate for another day.
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Kicker:

Dallas: Mike Vanderjagt
Washington: John Hall

Easy. 2nd best kicker in football vs washed up limp leg

Advantage: Dallas

Punter:

Dallas: Matt McBriar
Washignton: Derrick Frost

Dallas could have Nors at punter, we would still be better.

Advantage: Dallas

Agreed, our kicking units have been injury plagued.
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Coaching:

Dallas: Bill Parcells
Washington: JOe Gibbs

While head coach is a push, the Washington assistants give them a strong edge.

Advantage: Washington

Can't touch that (no MC Hammer), Gibbs has 3 SB rings, is already in the HOF, and our coaching staff is just oozing with experience.

I remind you that any advantages I mentioned are slight because this is the NFL, and parody exists. But I think it makes a lot of sense why we swept ya'll last season, real talk.
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[Eddie]

Do you guys realize there are 30 teams other than the Washington Commanders to talk about???

I give up. All Commander threads are on Ignore by me from now on.

Get over it.

 

[riggo]

rogers gets beat by brown -as a rookie- and he sucks...but moss burns glenn and roy (i still dont put that all on glenn as not CB should be in single coverage with any kind of lead) twice in one game for long TD's (and was about 6 inches short of another on a long bomb in the second meeting).....yet, the boys are superior?

c'mon, heavy!?

 

[superpunk]

Do you guys realize there are 30 teams other than the Washington Commanders to talk about???

I give up. All Commander threads are on Ignore by me from now on.

Get over it.

Says the guy who can't stop waxing poetic about how the Commanders are exerting their domination over us, and continue to get better, and we have sooooo much catching up to do.

But please continue - the self righteousness is fantastic.

 

[Tio]

I think this is a draw. Sure, Bledsoe may be younger and (supposidly) have a better arm, but he is immobile as hell. I don't know where people get this "noodle arm" BS from, maybe the 2005 season? Moss, the definition of a deep threat, had his first Pro Bowl season with Brunell. So how can you say Brunell doesn't have the arm? Pennington doesn't have the arm, but Brunell? Come on...

Bledsoe was a stud until flo went down. Brunnell's mobility is so minute compared to his earlier years it isn't even a advantage, more like a tallest midget syndrom
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I don't see how you have the clear advantage here, I'm gonna have to call draw again. Cooley has always had the TD totals to match Witten, and after this past season, now is starting to get the yardage totals as well.

No way is this a draw, Witten is a bonafide stud TE, Cooley is an HB (is he a good blocker at all?) who has nice hands and a knack for the endzone.
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Phillip Daniels, who had 1 sack going into the Dec. 18th Dallas game, gets 4 on Bledsoe in one game? Yeah, your line is ****ed up. Without a doubt, Washington has the best line in the NFC East. Also, Ray Brown (now retired) was only playing because Randy Thomas went down with injury in the Giants game (Dec. 24th). Thomas is one of the better pulling guards in the league.

I do realize the injury to Flozel Adams really hurt, and Marco Rivera (sp?) didn't turn out to be who you paid him to be.

With flo healthy, you guys didn't get a hand on bledsoe
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You have the youth, but I consider Cornelius Griffin the best DT in the league:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
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Agreed, your guys are still young, but Washington is one of the premier OLBs in the league, and Marshall is a playmaking fool out on the field.

Marshall isn't as good as James IMO.​

e debated all day, all night, but you can't touch Springs, Rogers, Archuleta, and Taylor for a secondary. Rogers was a rookie last year, all rookies get burned, but he turned out better than Adam Jones or dude in Arizona. He's great in run support and has a nose for INTs.

Newman>Springs Henry>Rodgers Williams>Archuleta ?<Taylor

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[Gfunk]

No way is this a draw, Witten is a bonafide stud TE, Cooley is an HB (is he a good blocker at all?) who has nice hands and a knack for the endzone.

He's an HB in our system but could easily play TE (obviously). This is the NFC East, not the NFC West. It's very hard to run on any team in this division so it speaks volume for our run blocking when you can do it in the NFC East and still finish in the top 5 (rush offense).​

 

[ravidubey]

This one is pretty close, but when you get down to it, TO > Moss, Glenn > Liyod, and Crayton > Randle El

That's kind of blind homerism, don't you think? What's Crayton done next to Randle El? I think Crayton has the potential to have a great Cowboy career, but he has to stay on the field and overcome injuries. I agree if he can stay healthy he will prove better than Randle El, but for now I thin we Cowboys fans have to hold our tongues.

Washington's overall lack of a possession receiver is their problem IMO. Cooley has been that player for them, but not having a WR built to catch the short stuff in traffic forces the QB to be even more accurate, and that only gets harder and harder as the QB gets older.

Dallas' problem is age and injury, not talent. Owens and Glenn are 32, and all three of Dallas' starters have proven brittle.