Post Draft Analysis

[CalPolyTechnique]

I think your last paragraph is the problem. The team doesn’t understand the value of a good 1T and solid safety play.

We brought in all these Safety’s for a visit then once we had the chance to take one we got scared...

I get Rod values the 3T...I just don’t think it should be at the expense of a much better player available.

They did bring in Rapp and Thornhill...and they clearly didn’t like them enough to use 58 on them. Why isn’t that a possibility in your mind?

I’d wager if for whatever reason Jonathan Abram was available at their pick they would taken him over Hill.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

After fuming Friday night after our 1st 2 picks I took some time to digest our draft and think on it as a whole.

2: Hill - arguably the most disappointing picks of the draft for me. I see Hill as an athletic kid that'll be best suited as a nickel / dime rusher at the next level. He went to a small school and struggled to anchor against the run so it's essentially another Collins type player WITH character concerns. Reach on the talent of the player and you add in the character stuff left me pretty disappointed. Add in the fact that were some great talents left on the board when we picked makes it even more frustrating.

3: McGovern: we have an all pro G and we just drafted a top 50 talent last year to play G. And before you tell me the plan is to move Williams out to OT and cut ties with Collins, please remember Williams' scouting report said he lacks length and lateral quickness to play OT at the next level. I actually like the value of the talent here, but it doesn't make sense for now or next year. I wouldn't have preferred OL at all, but at least a natural OT would've made more sense.

4: Pollard: really like the player and the type of value he can bring to the O. I see him as a poor mans Curtis Samuel that can give us some return value. I think he's Austin's eventual replacement, but I think we over drafted and could've had him in the 5th if not the 6th.

5: M.Jackson: this is probably my favorite pick of the draft. I though he could go as early as the 3rd. Good speed with good length, and had a passer rating of 36 when targeted last year. Great developmental kid for Richard but lacks a little bit in transition so might need to stick to press in a zone type scheme.

5. J. Jackson: Meh...below average athlete but solid production. He looks ok on tape and produced just don't know if he has enough juice at the next level.

6: Wilson: I've got nothing...literally haven't heard of him until we drafted him.

7: Weber / Jelks: I think Weber was slotted to go late so I'm good with the pick. Should be a competent backup to Zeke and I think he's better than what we have. Jelks is another good developmental guy and someone I thought would go sooner. A bit of a tweener - but a great first step and great length so will create good competition on the DL.

All in all, I feel like we reached early and made an OL pick that doesn't make much sense and did good late and with UDFAs. I really like Wise and think he can be a solid nickel rusher in a few years.

Hill does not have a poor anchor. When he gets washed it is because of pad level and not anchor.

This report reads more like you taking issue with them not drafting the players you wanted as opposed to discussing the ones we did.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And, of course, you this because you know them personally

You don't need that to see that Hill does not have the drug issues that those two do. Anyone could know that if they paid a bit of attention.

 

[Silver Surfer]

And, of course, you this because you know them personally

And you do?

You lump Hill in with Gregory and Irving. Those guys are not playing because of substance abuse. Are you saying Hill has a substance abuse problem? I haven't heard of anything like that.

 

[cnuball21]

They did bring in Rapp and Thornhill...and they clearly didn’t like them enough to use 58 on them. Why isn’t that a possibility in your mind?

I’d wager if for whatever reason Jonathan Abram was available at their pick they would taken him over Hill.

That’s certainly a possibility...I guess just a frustrating one for me to grasp as I and many other analysts seem to have them as higher rated players.

 

[cnuball21]

Hill does not have a poor anchor. When he gets washed it is because of pad level and not anchor.

This report reads more like you taking issue with them not drafting the players you wanted as opposed to discussing the ones we did.

His ability to anchor shows up as a negative in just about every scouting report I read.

I actually wanted a DT at 58, just not him.

Would’ve been fine if we didn’t take Thornhill, who is who I liked, as long as we would’ve taken someone who’s talent warrants the pick.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I’d wager if for whatever reason Jonathan Abram was available at their pick they would taken him over Hill.

I don't know, any team that would take Taco in the first round has shown they don't always have that level of analysis...

 

[visionary]

And you do?

You lump Hill in with Gregory and Irving. Those guys are not playing because of substance abuse. Are you saying Hill has a substance abuse problem? I haven't heard of anything like that.

I'm quoting what other draft experts and insiders who have met him and his coaches are saying

If you are contradicting that you need to have similar level of evidence not some lollipops and rainbows take just because we drafted him

Where is the evidence that he took to coaching, was a good practice player and was disciplined ?

 

[xwalker]

After fuming Friday night after our 1st 2 picks I took some time to digest our draft and think on it as a whole.

2: Hill - arguably the most disappointing picks of the draft for me. I see Hill as an athletic kid that'll be best suited as a nickel / dime rusher at the next level. He went to a small school and struggled to anchor against the run so it's essentially another Collins type player WITH character concerns. Reach on the talent of the player and you add in the character stuff left me pretty disappointed. Add in the fact that were some great talents left on the board when we picked makes it even more frustrating.

3: McGovern: we have an all pro G and we just drafted a top 50 talent last year to play G. And before you tell me the plan is to move Williams out to OT and cut ties with Collins, please remember Williams' scouting report said he lacks length and lateral quickness to play OT at the next level. I actually like the value of the talent here, but it doesn't make sense for now or next year. I wouldn't have preferred OL at all, but at least a natural OT would've made more sense.

4: Pollard: really like the player and the type of value he can bring to the O. I see him as a poor mans Curtis Samuel that can give us some return value. I think he's Austin's eventual replacement, but I think we over drafted and could've had him in the 5th if not the 6th.

5: M.Jackson: this is probably my favorite pick of the draft. I though he could go as early as the 3rd. Good speed with good length, and had a passer rating of 36 when targeted last year. Great developmental kid for Richard but lacks a little bit in transition so might need to stick to press in a zone type scheme.

5. J. Jackson: Meh...below average athlete but solid production. He looks ok on tape and produced just don't know if he has enough juice at the next level.

6: Wilson: I've got nothing...literally haven't heard of him until we drafted him.

7: Weber / Jelks: I think Weber was slotted to go late so I'm good with the pick. Should be a competent backup to Zeke and I think he's better than what we have. Jelks is another good developmental guy and someone I thought would go sooner. A bit of a tweener - but a great first step and great length so will create good competition on the DL.

All in all, I feel like we reached early and made an OL pick that doesn't make much sense and did good late and with UDFAs. I really like Wise and think he can be a solid nickel rusher in a few years.

Might be time for a new Avatar. The Rowdy Avatar just looks silly for somebody with over 2000 posts...

 

[Silver Surfer]

I'm quoting what other draft experts and insiders who have met him and his coaches are saying

If you are contradicting that you need to have similar level of evidence not some lollipops and rainbows take just because we drafted him

Where is the evidence that he took to coaching, was a good practice player and was disciplined ?

"I'm quoting what other draft experts and insiders who have met him and his coaches are saying"

The only guys in people you mention that matter are the coaches. The rest of them are parroting what they've been told. With respect to the coaches, let me ask you this: Ever had a boss who didn't like you? What do you think they told third parties about you when discussing your performance?

Did you think Aikman was a poor quarterback because he didn't like or get along with Barry Switzer? And what do you think Switzer would have said about Aikman to others if Aikman hadn't already established himself as one of the premier quarterbacks in the league?

"If you are contradicting that you need to have similar level of evidence not some lollipops and rainbows take just because we drafted him"

I have no idea what you're saying here.


"Where is the evidence that he took to coaching, was a good practice player and was disciplined ?"

There are dozens of guys each year who do just exactly what you're describing.... on practice squads around the league.

Its obvious to me the two main questions for the Cowboys are:

1) Can he be a "difference maker", and

2) Can he stay on the field....

and I'm not so sure they even care about question 2.

Greg Ellis took to coaching, was a good practice player and was disciplined. 21 years ago the Cowboys drafted him instead of Randy Moss.

 

[Silver Surfer]

I'm quoting what other draft experts and insiders who have met him and his coaches are saying

If you are contradicting that you need to have similar level of evidence not some lollipops and rainbows take just because we drafted him

Where is the evidence that he took to coaching, was a good practice player and was disciplined ?

From another post quoting Will McClay:

There were red flags with Hill because of some issues with the UCF staff. How did you guys address those things?

We see the red flag and we’re going to dig on the red flag and make our interpretation based on what we know. Part of this whole scouting business is people talking to people and getting an opinion. That’s where your information comes from and you can take it with a grain of salt and we’re going to dig and talk to every person and find a way to collectively say: ‘This is who this kid is.’ It also stems from us spending time with the kid and knowing the negatives that were said and the positives that were said. We want to find the whole truth and not listen to somebody’s opinion.

The truth will be determined by what we find out and what we believe. There’s something to (Nebraska coach) Scott Frost playing for Rod and knowing who Rod is and the value Rod put into that word, because he knows that person and that person knows him. That gave us a little bit and then we brought him in and spent time with him and found out what he’s all about. That kid is all football, and shoot – I say this every year when people bring up questions about this guy or that guy or they formulate opinions about a guy who is 21 years old on a college campus. We’ve seen things in the news and politics and everything else going back to when people did when they were in college. Let’s not make a judgment on a kid based on who that kid is, being 20 years old, and the decisions that we make.

 

[cnuball21]

Might be time for a new Avatar. The Rowdy Avatar just looks silly for somebody with over 2000 posts...

Haha you’re probably right!

 

[Silver Surfer]

Might be time for a new Avatar. The Rowdy Avatar just looks silly for somebody with over 2000 posts...

Here's one for you Cnuball21:

 

[cnuball21]

Here's one for you Cnuball21:

Looks like the face I make while posting...

I’m gonna have to think on the avatar...

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

His ability to anchor shows up as a negative in just about every scouting report I read.

I actually wanted a DT at 58, just not him.

Would’ve been fine if we didn’t take Thornhill, who is who I liked, as long as we would’ve taken someone who’s talent warrants the pick.

Post them then.. The ones I've read and from what I have watched like the Memphis game show that he is strong like bull.

 

[visionary]

"I'm quoting what other draft experts and insiders who have met him and his coaches are saying"

The only guys in people you mention that matter are the coaches. The rest of them are parroting what they've been told. With respect to the coaches, let me ask you this: Ever had a boss who didn't like you? What do you think they told third parties about you when discussing your performance?

Did you think Aikman was a poor quarterback because he didn't like or get along with Barry Switzer? And what do you think Switzer would have said about Aikman to others if Aikman hadn't already established himself as one of the premier quarterbacks in the league?

"If you are contradicting that you need to have similar level of evidence not some lollipops and rainbows take just because we drafted him"

I have no idea what you're saying here.


"Where is the evidence that he took to coaching, was a good practice player and was disciplined ?"

There are dozens of guys each year who do just exactly what you're describing.... on practice squads around the league.

Its obvious to me the two main questions for the Cowboys are:

1) Can he be a "difference maker", and

2) Can he stay on the field....

and I'm not so sure they even care about question 2.

Greg Ellis took to coaching, was a good practice player and was disciplined. 21 years ago the Cowboys drafted him instead of Randy Moss.

So pretty much 'I'll ignore all the actual evidence' and rely on hope

Expected nothing less

 

[Silver Surfer]

So pretty much 'I'll ignore all the actual evidence' and rely on hope

Expected nothing less

And you'll ignore the evidence on the field where the game is actually played. Got it.

 

[Silver Surfer]

Looks like the face I make while posting...

I’m gonna have to think on the avatar...

I figured Xwalker would approve of my choice.

 

[visionary]

And you'll ignore the evidence on the field where the game is actually played. Got it.

I'll be watching for "evidence on the field" with Gregory and Irving

Thx for the heads up

 

[Silver Surfer]

I'll be watching for "evidence on the field" with Gregory and Irving

Thx for the heads up

You're a hoot. Are you really this ignorant in real life? How can a guy who calls himself "Visionary" be so blind?

I've pointed out and you've failed to address the fact that Irving and Gregory aren't playing because of substance abuse. Again, is there any evidence of Hill having a problem with substance abuse? If so, please point it out.