Post Draft Analysis

[cnuball21]

He wouldn't be there at 90.

Even better...then I go get Daylon Mack who's a much better fit for what we're looking for. Could've even had him in the 4th.

 

[cnuball21]

Great write up

It's possible Hill develops into a good player but the process is still broken

I like Hill. My point wasn't that he's not a good player, it's just that he's not a top 50 talent which is what we should've been hunting for.

I think he'd be a great nickel pass rusher...but you don't draft that in the 2nd.

 

[rambo2]

I’m not sure I understand what you’re trying to say here...

I'm saying that they have improved the defensive line and that line will put pressure on the qb which makes the secondary better.

 

[DasSchnitzel]

So if we're reaching for a 3/4 rd talent in rd 2 his talent suddenly increases because of where we drafted him?

Lol

You're in a roll today buddy
I would recommend staying at home so you dont hurt yourself

I just meant that history has shown a 3rd and 4th round prospect hast worked and he said it would.

I think by now it's clear that Dallas disagrees Hill is a 3rd or 4th round prospect.

I've been wrong before, Dallas has been wrong before, itll happen again for everyone. I'm simply more optimistic than @cnuball21 but I respect his opinion. If hes right and Hill isn't worth a 2nd rounder then more power to him.

 

[cnuball21]

I'm saying that they have improved the defensive line and that line will put pressure on the qb which makes the secondary better.

Sure, I like the pieces we have at rushing the passer I’m just worried we don’t have a single DT on the roster that can consistently anchor and effect the run.

 

[visionary]

I just meant that history has shown a 3rd and 4th round prospect hast worked and he said it would.

I think by now it's clear that Dallas disagrees Hill is a 3rd or 4th round prospect.

I've been wrong before, Dallas has been wrong before, itll happen again for everyone. I'm simply more optimistic than @cnuball21 but I respect his opinion. If hes right and Hill isn't worth a 2nd rounder then more power to him.

The point is that this was a reach
Even if Hill does work out, it does not mean it was a good pick, this is a bad process

This FO does things hoping they will work out
You will never get consistently good results if the process is bad

Why not have a sound plan? Draft Thornhill or Adderly. Build a team not on hope but on strategy ?

That is a big part of my problem with this FO
They are trying to prove to people they are smarter. Trying to hit the homerun and striking out in the process

Anyway, that's JMO

 

[DasSchnitzel]

The point is that this was a reach
Even if Hill does work out, it does not mean it was a good pick, this is a bad process

This FO does things hoping they will work out
You will never get consistently good results if the process is bad

Why not have a sound plan? Draft Thornhill or Adderly. Build a team not on hope but on strategy ?

That is a big part of my problem with this FO
They are trying to prove to people they are smarter. Trying to hit the homerun and striking out in the process

Anyway, that's JMO

I feel like we've drafted pretty well for much of the last decade, whatever we may have thought about the picks at the time. Starting with the Zach Martin draft we've done really well and have a young, affordable, talented roster.

They do get frustratingly cute at times, even Dane Brugler had to check his notes on Anthony Hitchens, but I think it has been working for them. To me the talent gaps are holding clipboards and aren't on the 53.

 

[Kolemmitt]

The point is that this was a reach
Even if Hill does work out, it does not mean it was a good pick, this is a bad process

This FO does things hoping they will work out
You will never get consistently good results if the process is bad

Why not have a sound plan? Draft Thornhill or Adderly. Build a team not on hope but on strategy ?

That is a big part of my problem with this FO
They are trying to prove to people they are smarter. Trying to hit the homerun and striking out in the process

Anyway, that's JMO

No offense man, but I have to disagree with this. Was Fredrick a bad pick? According to the "experts", he should have gone in the third. Was Hitchens a bad pick? He was supposed to be undrafted, according to the "experts". A lot of "experts" thought LVE should have gone in the second. Bad pick? Smith was a bad pick because he probably would never play again. A smart GM would have taken a flyer during day 3 -right?

To me, the worse draft pick the Cowboys "made" in recent years was Max Unger. The guy they wanted, but they didn't go up and get because...because I don't know, they thought they could get him later. If you want a guy, take him. Don't worry about Kiper or the other draft nerds.

What are you gauging where a player should go? NFL.com? Brugler? Kiper? Walterfootball? These are just dudes and they were literally all over the place on Hill.

To me, the best draft expert is that dude that sits on the left side of the table. McClay is the best there is. I know, I know. Taco. But every team makes bad picks, but since McClay took over, we have been better than anyone.

Just my two-cents.

 

[Fredbeard]

Even better...then I go get Daylon Mack who's a much better fit for what we're looking for. Could've even had him in the 4th.

I had my hopes up when the cowboys interviewed Mack at the shrine game or senior bowl , whatever it was. Jmo, the cowboys could have drafted Mack and had daylon and woods rotate at the 1 tech and had Covington and Collins rotate at the 3 tech.oh well. Hopefully Hill hopefully turns out to be a good player but I don't get Rods infatuation with him. Wren and
Saunders were similar type players who were drafted later and whose combine performance numbers were almost
Identical to Hill's. Is Hill supossedly head and shoulders better than those two?

 

[cnuball21]

I had my hopes up when the cowboys interviewed Mack at the shrine game or senior bowl , whatever it was. Jmo, the cowboys could have drafted Mack and had daylon and woods rotate at the 1 tech and had Covington and Collins rotate at the 3 tech.oh well. Hopefully Hill hopefully turns out to be a good player but I don't get Rods infatuation with him. Wren and
Saunders were similar type players who were drafted later and whose combine performance numbers were almost
Identical to Hill's. Is Hill supossedly head and shoulders better than those two?

No, he’s a similar player that was over drafted which is what I’m mad about.

 

[Jake]

The point is that this was a reach
Even if Hill does work out, it does not mean it was a good pick, this is a bad process

This FO does things hoping they will work out
You will never get consistently good results if the process is bad

Why not have a sound plan? Draft Thornhill or Adderly. Build a team not on hope but on strategy ?

That is a big part of my problem with this FO
They are trying to prove to people they are smarter. Trying to hit the homerun and striking out in the process

Anyway, that's JMO

Drawing conclusions that differ from your own doesn't mean there's no "process" or "plan" in Dallas. A year ago you were telling us LVE is "Bobby Carpenter 2.0", so please understand if I take this post with a grain of salt.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

My problem with "just having to disrupt" basically means he's a one sided player that just gives you some pass rush ability. You can get that in the 3rd and 4th.

Hill was drafted at R2 P58.
Maleik Collins was drafted R3 P65.

There’s not a huge difference between the two; Hill is basically a 3rd rounder.

 

[cowboyec]

I thought we had a solid draft.
underwhelming probably to most but good players.
the only one Im not familar with or remember seeing is Wilson.
From the games I watched over the last 2yrs...these are good,solid players.
its up to them now.
like Hill...big,strong,athletic DT...can't wait to watch him here.
McGovern is a really good interior player....does this point to trouble with Frederick or Collins next yr???...we'll find out.
love taking OL...can never have enuff.
Pollard is electric with the ball in his hands.
M Jackson is raw...love his size.
Joe Jackson was one of my favorite DEs...love his size....physical....good player....throwback type end.
Mike Weber was one of my favorite players to watch at Ohio St...tough,physical runner...descent receiver...solid blocker.LOVED that we got him.
Jalen Jelks could turn into a real find...love his size...in the few oregon games I watched...he flashed enuff I wrote his name down....always seems to be around the ball...needs to add some weight...but a good player.
I think this is a solid,probably underwhelming draft class....underwhelming in terms of hype....that a year from now folks will feel much better about.
Dallas drafted some good solid players this weekend.
its up to them now.

 

[cnuball21]

Hill was drafted at R2 P58.
Maleik Collins was drafted R3 P65.

There’s not a huge difference between the two; Hill is basically a 3rd rounder.

I agree to an extent, but would you not agree there were top 50 talents on the board that could’ve fit a need for us?

For me that’s about 20 or so slots higher than where I see Hill as a talent.

 

[visionary]

Drawing conclusions that differ from your own doesn't mean there's no "process" or "plan" in Dallas. A year ago you were telling us LVE is "Bobby Carpenter 2.0", so please understand if I take this post with a grain of salt.

You can take my opinion with as much salt as you want

Last I looked none of us are scouts employed by an NFL team so we look at available film and read opinions of other experts and formulate opinions. Almost all of them had raised serious red flags about Hill. The threads on CZ about Hill pre draft had absolutely no one wanting him in rd 2. Also, there were no such red flags about LVE. The issues are very very different.

This FO has a habit of taking flyers on players like Gregory and Irving hoping for a miracle and this has come back to bite us. This is the same here

The point I made was, this is not a good or sound strategy for sustained success and is at least partly why we haven't won anything in the last 20+ years

You obviously think taking flyers with premium picks on these players with significant off field and/or issues with authority and poor practice habits is a good strategy, so more power to you

 

[visionary]

No offense man, but I have to disagree with this. Was Fredrick a bad pick? According to the "experts", he should have gone in the third. Was Hitchens a bad pick? He was supposed to be undrafted, according to the "experts". A lot of "experts" thought LVE should have gone in the second. Bad pick? Smith was a bad pick because he probably would never play again. A smart GM would have taken a flyer during day 3 -right?

To me, the worse draft pick the Cowboys "made" in recent years was Max Unger. The guy they wanted, but they didn't go up and get because...because I don't know, they thought they could get him later. If you want a guy, take him. Don't worry about Kiper or the other draft nerds.

What are you gauging where a player should go? NFL.com? Brugler? Kiper? Walterfootball? These are just dudes and they were literally all over the place on Hill.

To me, the best draft expert is that dude that sits on the left side of the table. McClay is the best there is. I know, I know. Taco. But every team makes bad picks, but since McClay took over, we have been better than anyone.

Just my two-cents.

No offense taken, buddy

Frederick and LVE had no off field or practice habit issues. Hill is much more like Gregory or Irving. How did those work out for us?

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I agree to an extent, but would you not agree there were top 50 talents on the board that could’ve fit a need for us?

For me that’s about 20 or so slots higher than where I see Hill as a talent.

I understand that, but I think if you were listening to the team’s live stream with Bruglar he was mentioning values after the first five picks or so were all over the map.

I was an early fan of Thornihill and he was my #1 target (outside of Savage) heading into Round 2. That said, I can understand if the team valued a 3T more than him or Rapp.

Prospect value is a relative notion. Maranelli’s scheme (right or wrong) places value on the position and they don’t value the safety position nearly as much. When you see these various prospect rankings they are looking at valuation at a high level (macro) versus at a subjective (micro) level that would consider how every prospect fits into the specific offensive or defensive scheme of each of the 32 different teams (obviously because it would be a nearly impossible task).

 

[rambo2]

No offense taken, buddy

Frederick and LVE had no off field or practice habit issues. Hill is much more like Gregory or Irving. How did those work out for us?

Hill is not like Gregory or Irving.

 

[cnuball21]

I understand that, but I think if you were listening to the team’s live stream with Bruglar he was mentioning values after the first five picks or so were all over the map.

I was an early fan of Thornihill and he was my #1 target (outside of Savage) heading into Round 2. That said, I can understand if the team valued a 3T more than him or Rapp.

Prospect value is a relative notion. Maranelli’s scheme (right or wrong) places value on the position and they don’t value the safety position nearly as much. When you see these various prospect rankings they are looking at valuation at a high level (macro) versus at a subjective (micro) level that would consider how every prospect fits into the specific offensive or defensive scheme of each of the 32 different teams (obviously because it would be a nearly impossible task).

I think your last paragraph is the problem. The team doesn’t understand the value of a good 1T and solid safety play.

We brought in all these Safety’s for a visit then once we had the chance to take one we got scared...

I get Rod values the 3T...I just don’t think it should be at the expense of a much better player available.

 

[visionary]

Hill is not like Gregory or Irving.

And, of course, you this because you know them personally